Thriller

Thoughts on the National, BCA, etc.

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2 hours ago, NC-car-guy said:

Why does a driver car have to "measure" up?  Statements like that are exactly what keeps drivers and mild modified away from these shows.  I'm in this conundrum with buttercup now. Spending stupid amounts of money to get it to some "measure" so the car or myself are somehow validated?  Scr*w it.  Better places to put my money and I can enjoy my driver cars with my low brow friends that apparently are not doing anything about measuring up either.  I'll stick to local cruise ins where we don't have to measure our ***** to prove a point.

 

 

I personally agree with you that every car does not need to measure up( but that was the vibe that was being presented)or  be a show car but the owner should not expect or feel bad if they don't get a trophy or complain about those that do.  I have had many driver or clean originals that i have taken to regionals, nationals of multiple makes and organizations but when I take those I am not put off because I don't get a trophy.  I enjoy the judging aspect so I'm a bad person?  I am not into the modified cars so I usually just do a quick walk through although I can appreciate the workmanship, I spend lots of time looking at originals, and love to see the details that owners work so hard to get right on show cars, so I appreciate them all.  If I came across as only liking the restored cars, that is not the case.  A  judged field can have show cars and drivers sitting side by side and everyone is getting exactly what they want, those that want judged are judged, those that don't can sit and enjoy their cars and show without the "pressure of competition hanging over your head"(really?), both win, but somehow it comes back to owners feeling bad because they didn't win a trophy - Grow up.

 

B Jake mentioned non judged meets probably having better turnouts - maybe he doesn't remember all the huge meets we had for years WITH formal judging, lack of turnout has nothing to do with judging.  

 

BCA National meets have enough opportunities for it to be whatever the member happens to be looking for, no one expects everyone to like everything or to participate in everything, it's like a buffet, pick and choose what you want and don't spit on what you don't. 

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3 hours ago, Terry Wiegand said:

Derek,

It was good to see you again and to be able to visit with you.  Your little Skyhawk is quite the car.  Every time I see one of them I think of a Chevy Vega.  Sorry 'bout that.  Now, about your comments on the judging.  Please tell me what is wrong with coming to a meet and just enjoying your friends and checking out the cars and/or trucks?  This judging business is discriminatory and divisive by nature.  What it does is tell an owner that his vehicle is better than yours and that yours simply doesn't measure up.  If you think that you had a good time at this meet, just imagine what a great time you would have if you did not have the pressure of competition hanging over your head.  It would then be all about having fun.  It is truly a sad thing that some folks do not know how to do that.  Just one person's thoughts here.

 

Terry Wiegand

South Hutchinson, Kansas

 

It was really good to see you and Barbara too Terry.  The people I've met through the hobby are the biggest part of why I keep coming back.  I don't need judging to enjoy the event, but I've had some of my cars judged in different categories, so I continue to participate as a judge as payback / paying it forward to the club.

 

Please note that I don't feel a need to have my cars judged necessarily.  The registration cost for a Display car isn't that much different than to have it judged.  So, if you're effectively paying for the hardware anyway, why not enter?  So then, you wind up with that beautiful 1927 or the personalized Wildcat 4 door that don't stand a chance because they don't fit against the 400 point standard.  Perhaps the big issue is that the Modified Division has set a standard that doesn't allow these cars to be competitive.  I'm not suggesting everyone should go home with an award, nor that everyone wants that...I'd just like to see a category that cars could be entered in that they don't enter the ring with a proverbial hand tied behind their back.

 

We need to be tolerant enough of others having different tastes and priorities and accept all that have an interest in the Buick automobile.

 

The Skyhawk doesn't need the wheels, just the hub caps.  The seller has stopped responding to me.  I need to try again, or turn my attention elsewhere.

 

You can't please everyone all the time.  I just think we ought to have an additional option for those modified cars that aren't modified enough...perhaps that means needing to look at the Modified Division of the BCA, but that's outside my pay grade.  I too heard that some adjustments were made to provide recognition to more of the modified cars this year.  While we can't be all things to everyone, it would be good if we could extend an olive branch so that everyone and their cars are included.

 

I hope to meet Stringfellow some day.  The reality of where I grew up on the Canadian prairies (where winter really exists) is that once closed cars became available, there were very few convertibles...yet now, it's the convertibles that are saved and in demand, regardless of their practicality.  Some of us in the hobby need to save some of the "ordinary" cars too.  There were far more 4 door sedans built through the years yet, particularly in local shows, we don't necessarily see them.

 

 

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3 minutes ago, Y-JobFan said:

...BCA National meets have enough opportunities for it to be whatever the member happens to be looking for, no one expects everyone to like everything or to participate in everything, it's like a buffet, pick and choose what you want and don't spit on what you don't. 

Very well put...I totally agree!

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1 hour ago, B Jake Moran said:

Just one member's opinion - National and Regional meets will increase in attendance when judging is de-emphasized and there is sincere, and honest reach out to all of the new members that join, many for one year (one and done's) to attend a National meet and make sure they are welcomed.

 

Provide a discount for National meet attendance to all new members.  You will make it up the 1st year by having more judges to judge YOUR cars and later on when they return. 


The last 2 meets have had far less than 200 registrations, yet were in phenomenal historically high density of membership and attraction locations.  Is there any doubt that 10 to 15 years ago the Midwest City meet would have drawn 300 to 350 cars?   

 

It was my understanding from eyewitnesses that once a car was judged on Saturday that most of them left the show field.  The trailer queens were loaded up, and the contestants waited for the banquet to receive their awards.  Unless the weather was ominous, personally, I would like to be able to walk through the show field like it was a small town festival show - where no one technically leaves until the trophies are handed out. 

 

If you do so, then the non judged and the judged are together in chronological order and instead of dispersing on this important day, all BCA members can mingle, renew friendships, make new ones.   This can certainly be done informally Weds-Friday, but Saturday afternoon is the one best opportunity to attend a BCA Super Bowl.

There was a time that cars were not allowed to leave the showfield until a certain time and that was stated in multiple locations and often announced. That fault is with the field committee for not enforcing it if it is still stated.

 

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The 'pro-judging' people will always say that the vehicles are judged to the factory standard.  That is a fine and noble thought, however, in order to achieve that level of 'correctness', it takes a healthy bank account.  Not everyone has a sizable amount of cash at their disposal to bring their vehicle to that level of perfection.  Think about the young couple with two or three children, a mortgage, and just getting started in the old car hobby.  The interest and desire is there, but, the huge volume of cash required for a 400 point restoration will be years, even decades away, before they can even consider restoring a vehicle.  Somebody mentioned human nature here - it is that human nature that has a lot of people looking down their noses at the less fortunate, or those with less cash available to them.  If that is not divisive or discriminatory then I do not know what is.  It's that old 'my checkbook is bigger than yours' attitude that turns a whole lot of folks off.  I really do not care what the 'trailer queen set' think.  What I think is that it is way cool that Derek jumped in that Skyhawk and drove it hundreds upon hundreds of miles to reconnect with friends, let everyone see the car, and have fun at the same time.

 

Terry Wiegand

South Hutchinson, Kansas

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3 hours ago, NC-car-guy said:

I'm in this conundrum with buttercup now. Spending stupid amounts of money to get it to some "measure" so the car or myself are somehow validated?  Scr*w it. Better places to put my money and I can enjoy my driver cars with my low brow friends that apparently are not doing anything about measuring up either.  I'll stick to local cruise ins where we dont have to measure our ***** to prove a point.

 

Sad to hear my friend.  I've never really been a restore for show kind of guy myself but certainly appreciate the efforts and dollars spent by those who do restore to factory original. My most appreciation however goes to the original and unmolested "true survivors" of which I've had a few, your Buttercup being my most appreciated. Granted, survivors are rare and are in a class of their own, sort of the "only original once class" or the formal "Archival Class". As planned, I have spent every penny you gave me for Buttercup plus some in turning SouthernBelle into a the purpose built Buick Estate Tow Wagon while still TRYING to retain as much originality to her as possible. I still hope to enter her in an archival judged event someday. But getting back to your comment, I guess my question is "What are you spending on BC to get her to the condition of being able to enter into Archival class judging that you wouldn't be spending on her anyway just to get her to a driver?" A little more attention to detail maybe but does that cost that much. Or perhaps for correct style WW tires instead of just plain driver radials. I think the only validation you're doing with BC is to BC herself. Does she, a 13,000 mile 1954 Buick Roadmaster not deserve the few extra dollars and effort to at least let her stand proud for just one judged car show  before she gets her wheels driven off her?  Tell you what I'll do, any "stupid money" you spend on her that qualifies as money spent to get her to Archival show condition that wouldn't have been spent to get her to a good dependable driver, send me the bill. I'll just consider it as a guilt payment for not having given her her due appreciation all these years. Sound fair? Sounds more than fair to me as I don't think I'll be wearing my billfold out to honor it. Or... she's yours now do with her what you want, we'll still be friends.

Edited by MrEarl (see edit history)
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You guys are worrying way too much about what other people think. Who cares? If your car makes YOU happy, why do other people's opinions matter?

 

You should hear the comments I get once people find out I'm a dealer, regardless of the venue. At that point, everyone feels like they have 100% permission to say whatever horrible thing is on their mind about my cars, no filters. In fact, many act like they HAVE to say something critical about my car, just to show me they know what they're talking about. This isn't a rare or isolated thing. I would also wager that every person here has seen a car they hated at a show and elbowed their buddy as if to say, "Get a load of THAT thing," if not actually saying it out loud. It happens.

 

This Studebaker was at our local cruise night last Tuesday. Melanie took a photo to send to my youngest son, who probably would have liked it (although his tastes are eclectic, anecdote below). How many of you would have walked past this Studebaker without at least nudging your buddy or spouse with a smirk on your face? How many would have stopped to take a photo to show your friends, as we did? But I bet that guy loves it and has fun with it, and there were people around it talking about it all night. So let's not all pretend our own fecal matter don't stink.

 

322813027_2019-06-1818_44_20.thumb.jpg.0c15c5d54fb5fb3317fb716cdd8aef18.jpg 1172253925_2019-06-1818_43_57.thumb.jpg.3872c0a4545724d75152461db30ce423.jpg

 

I also recall going to the CLC national meet in Columbus six or seven years ago and my youngest son was about three years old at the time. We walked by a purple early '50s Cadillac with flames and a hood scoop and all kinds of unorthodox modifications. My son, being 3, walked past and said out loud, "I hate your car." He was quickly corrected and told to keep it to himself, but he wasn't wrong. It really was awful. He was merely the only one who said it out loud.

 

Everybody doesn't have to like everything. Some people learn to keep their mouths shut and some are three years old forever. If your car makes you smile, that's all that matters. Everyone else is just whistling in the wind.

 

Who cares what some anonymous schmo in a parking lot thinks?

 

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Matt H., you are absolutely spot on, but, please do not forget the fact that the human animal is being dealt with here.  Human beings can be the nastiest and cruelest creatures alive and that brings me to my next comment - we like our dog way better than a lot of people that we have had the misfortune to have to be associated with.

 

Terry Wiegand

South Hutchinson, Kansas

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46 minutes ago, Matt Harwood said:

many act like they HAVE to say something critical about my car, just to show me they know what they're talking about. This isn't a rare or isolated thing.

 

You are too sensitive. It is not because you are a dealer. Quite a while ago I decided to have at least one major and very obvious flaw in my car just so's they can get past that point easier.

 

I can draw you pictures of who will make the various comments with surprising accuracy.

 

The more harmless ones will tell you their car is home and not finished, but when it is done it will be nicer.  bet you know this guy.

image.png.c851ab984169e7a6bb84e4fd1d9dbd53.png

 

You get to be able to recognize them coming.

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I am going to wade into the waters here

First the disclaimer

i was not at the national, i wish i could have been, i had a good friend there who has a good take on the hobby feeding me information and pics from the show

we just had our 40th annual local Buick show with 105 Buick's on the field day of show

I was the co chairman of the first show we had with the director and being the current Director ran this show with a dedicated group of members and family and have been part of just about all of the 40 missing just a couple. All shows have been driver peer judging 

i have been to 9 nationals so far judged at 2 and am planning to hopefully attend the next 2 

i do not own a 400 point car but i do have nice respectable cars

just some background to let those know i have some dealings with putting on car shows over the years not being pompous just stating fact

 

After reading all of the above comments there are many valid points being made

first off no matter how hard you try you will never ever please everyone we have tried, you have to find the best balance and that changes like society does over the years

if you become to rigid and don't change it will hurt you but keep the judging it is important see below.

 

When i attend a National i want to hopefully see the best of the best, that is exactly where they should be,(i heard this national had many real nice cars) the big dollar restorations, as i am thinking right next to the original in whatever condition and also the driven let me see the full range of what is there side by side, i want to see it all. i would like to see the years together, but i know this can be difficult in some respects The BCA membership has no requirements other than liking Buick's so welcome everyone to the party, yes some owners might look down on those other cars, tough on them be proud of what you brought, the attitude is their problem, but don't expect a trophy. if you know your car be honest with yourself class it accordingly ( archival,display,driven) when my children started playing sports i always taught them there are winners and losers in everything, if you want to win that is your job to try not someone else

 

You will need to keep judging at a national there is always a group that attends for the trophy, Allentown was nice but that was special i don't think it should be every national

 

Clones belong in the modified class they are not original so go to modified they wont like it but it is not original to how that car came out of the factory (we have had problems with this at our car show also)

speaking of modified we have struggled with this for just about all of the 40 years, if we are judging to how it came from the factory and other than allowed safety items then anything that is not stock is modified. Leave it up to the owner to place himself in the correct class, we tell them that even in peer judging if you made changes its your decision let them get the deductions if they go into stock, of course the real modified's need to be in the modified class, if you try to have classes to appease all modifications you will drive yourself crazy, our benchmark is to stock.

 

As far as this year being light in car count please keep in mind our schools are still in session today in the northeast so you probably excluded members with school age families and maybe grandparents who help shuttle children and teachers, i know this was probably done to help with the heat in the summer but it has to be a consideration in the future.

 

I believe cars should be on the show field till a certain reasonable time, i to have been disappointed when cars clear out to early

 

As far as trailers i drive my cars but it is the owners choice if he can afford it, i respect the driven cars but also understand all of the reasons for trailers including protection from terrible weather and safety concerns

 

It was mentioned in a different thread i think that live facebooking, instagram and twitter need to be considered if you want to attract the youth. But just wet the appetite don't give them to much make them want to show up

 

The best trophy's i get are the conversations with people who are interested in my cars especially when they talk about a family member who's not around anymore and you know they just opened up a bunch of great memories, part of what we do is history many times private history.

 

So I have said some stuff, you may not agree but that's ok, my opinion  

    

 

 

Edited by MRJBUICK (see edit history)
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3 minutes ago, MRJBUICK said:

I am going to wade into the waters here

First the disclaimer

i was not at the national, i wish i could have been, i had a good friend there who has a good take on the hobby feeding me information and pics from the show

we just had our 40th annual local Buick show with 105 Buick's on the field day of show

I was the co chairman of the first show we had with the director and being the current Director ran this show with a dedicated group of members and family and have been part of just about all of the 40 missing just a couple. All shows have been driver peer judging 

i have been to 9 nationals so far judged at 2 and am planning to hopefully attend the next 2 

i do not own a 400 point car but i do have nice respectable cars

just some background to let those know i have some dealings with putting on car shows over the years not being pompous just stating fact

 

After reading all of the above comments there are many valid points being made

first off no matter how hard you try you will never ever please everyone we have tried, you have to find the best balance and that changes like society does over the years

if you become to rigid and don't change it will hurt you but keep the judging it is important see below.

 

When i attend a National i want to hopefully see the best of the best, that is exactly where they should be,(i heard this national had many real nice cars) the big dollar restorations, as i am thinking right next to the original in whatever condition and also the driven let me see the full range of what is there side by side, i want to see it all. i would like to see the years together, but i know this can be difficult in some respects The BCA membership has no requirements other than liking Buick's so welcome everyone to the party, yes some owners might look down on those other cars, tough on them be proud of what you brought, the attitude is their problem, but don't expect a trophy. if you know your car be honest with yourself class it accordingly ( archival,display,driven) when my children started playing sports i always taught them there are winners and losers in everything, if you want to win that is your job to try not someone else

 

You will need to keep judging at a national there is always a group that attends for the trophy, Allentown was nice but that was special i don't think it should be every national

 

Clones belong in the modified class they are not original so go to modified they wont like it but it is not original to how that car came out of the factory (we have had problems with this at our car show also)

speaking of modified we have struggled with this for just about all of the 40 years, if we are judging to how it came from the factory and other than allowed safety items then anything that is not stock is modified. Leave it up to the owner to place himself in the correct class, we tell them that even in peer judging if you made changes its your decision let them get the deductions if they go into stock, of course the real modified's need to be in the modified class, if you try to have classes to appease all modifications you will drive yourself crazy, our benchmark is to stock.

 

As far as this year being light in car count please keep in mind our schools are still in session today in the northeast so you probably excluded members with school age families and maybe grandparents who help shuttle children and teachers, i know this was probably done to help with the heat in the summer but it has to be a consideration in the future.

 

I believe cars should be on the show field till a certain reasonable time, i to have been disappointed when cars clear out to early

 

As far as trailers i drive my cars but it is the owners choice if he can afford it, i respect the driven cars but also understand all of the reasons for trailers including protection from terrible weather and safety concerns

 

It was mentioned in a different thread i think that live facebooking, instagram and twitter need to be considered if you want to attract the youth. But just wet the appetite don't give them to much make them want to show up

 

The best trophy's i get are the conversations with people who are interested in my cars especially when they talk about a family member who's not around anymore and you know they just opened up a bunch of great memories, part of what we do is history many times private history.

 

So I have said some stuff, you may not agree but that's ok, my opinion  

    

 

 

Well said

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The first 400-point judging was in Batavia, NY for the 1989 national meet.

I am a bit frustrated and depressed over the phone call I got this morning from a chapter director who shall remain nameless. He was upset that some of his members did not do better in the judging. They brought home Silver awards instead of Gold and were so upset that they were "crying" at the awards banquet, if you can believe that. It was a phone call of 10-12 minutes of whining and sour grapes. Apparently the only thing these people come to a national meet for is to get a Gold or a New Senior award, and if they don't they think it's the judges' fault. That's pretty sad. I suggested to him that some of his members might want to take a look at their priorities in life, and I"m sure he didn't like that either.

 

I go for the selection of old Buick parts, and the chance to renew friendships with old friends and to see wonderful cars, many of which I have never seen before. Yes, I occasionally enter my car in the 400-point judging, but the best I have ever done is a silver award, and guess what--I do not demean the judges or complain to the meet organizers about it. This is national competition, and if every car that's entered goes home with an award, then the awards aren't worth much. Period.

Pete Phillips, BCA #7338

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33 minutes ago, Pete Phillips said:

The first 400-point judging was in Batavia, NY for the 1989 national meet.

I am a bit frustrated and depressed over the phone call I got this morning from a chapter director who shall remain nameless. He was upset that some of his members did not do better in the judging. They brought home Silver awards instead of Gold and were so upset that they were "crying" at the awards banquet, if you can believe that. It was a phone call of 10-12 minutes of whining and sour grapes. Apparently the only thing these people come to a national meet for is to get a Gold or a New Senior award, and if they don't they think it's the judges' fault. That's pretty sad. I suggested to him that some of his members might want to take a look at their priorities in life, and I"m sure he didn't like that either.

 

I go for the selection of old Buick parts, and the chance to renew friendships with old friends and to see wonderful cars, many of which I have never seen before. Yes, I occasionally enter my car in the 400-point judging, but the best I have ever done is a silver award, and guess what--I do not demean the judges or complain to the meet organizers about it. This is national competition, and if every car that's entered goes home with an award, then the awards aren't worth much. Period.

Pete Phillips, BCA #7338

 

 Thank you Pete!  Agree, FWIW.

 

  Ben

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I think the judging comments deserve their own thread, but as long as we're discussing it here I do have a few thoughts.

 

One, I know I am not a popular judge because I do not believe in the perfect car. That does not mean I am not a fair judge, but come on, perfect? Very, very few cars can be perfect and none should be. I don't nit-pick, but yes, I think cars judged on the 400-point system should be correct, if not very close to perfect. I look at marque judging like I look at math: either it's right or it's not. You want awards, then your car needs to measure up. Sorry, but that's how it should be.

 

I will admit that I am not terribly familiar with the modified class and its rules, but it has been my experience with modified cars that there is no "correct" or "incorrect." It's all subjective, and at that point it becomes a beauty contest--or worse, a popularity contest. I know there are guidelines such as a Buick engine is required, but whenever I work with local clubs trying to judge modified cars, it all becomes very abstract. The same happens with unrestored survivors--do you dock for deterioration or do you reward older cars for simply existing? Are older cars more "survivor-y" than late models that haven't survived as long, and do they get a bonus for that? I suspect this is why the AACA chose to simply certify HPOF cars rather than subject them to a judging points process. The logistics are nightmarish. But I digress.

 

My point is that trophies shouldn't be the reason anyone does this, but if it is the reason you do it, then you should respect the standards. That's why I wonder how yet another set of standards could work for a set of cars that aren't modified but aren't correct, either. To me, it seems like edging closer to the "everyone gets a trophy" nonsense that they have in kids' baseball games (and how many of you have complained about that?). What is acceptable to have incorrect on a show car? How much of it needs to be right to qualify? I don't think simply watering down the standards so more people can get awards is an answer if we want the 400-point judging of the BCA to be the gold standard for Buicks.

 

No offense to our hosts, but when my '41 Buick Century is finished, it'll win an AACA first prize without much trouble and that'll be nice. But the judging I really care about is the BCA, and that's because it's rigorous and expert on these specific cars. My Limited isn't a trophy car, so I don't enter it in judging. I don't have less fun because of it and I don't enjoy the meets less and I don't feel left out at the banquets. I'm there because I like the cars and the people. I realize not everyone is wired like that, but I would be very troubled to see some other class added that would permit incorrect and deteriorated cars like mine to be recognized as award-winners. It diminishes the value of the club's knowledge base and the expertise that makes it the only standard that matters if you own a Buick. That should matter to everyone, regardless of whether you have your car judged.

 

It isn't a rich-vs-poor thing or whether you have the ability to create a show car in your home garage; it's making sure that the club we all enjoy so much and which gives us all so many benefits continues to be the very best of its kind for the cars we love. The minute the CCCA started handing out 100-point scores and first-place trophies like Halloween candy in response to complaints from guys who spent a lot of money on restorations, well, that's pretty much when I lost interest. Don't do that to the BCA. Please!

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I agree completey with Pete and Matt.  You spend the time and effort to get it correct and it shows.  Good example the 49 convertible on the showfield.  It was a beautiful car but it was so wrong I imagine it did not so well in judging.  A little more effort on getting the engine color correct, for example and it could have been an award winner. (I dont know how he did BTW, but I know that era car).

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The 49 convertible was restored in the 80's...still showed very well but could use a little freshening up to really pop.

 

It blows my mind that someone called to complain about judging results.  At least wait for the judging sheet to see why.  If there is a legitimate gripe, then bring it up...or not.  All of those judges burned a good portion of their day grinding through all those cars. 

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If I got a Silver, I’d question the judging, too. :D  

 

More generally, ask yourself this: 6000(?) BCA members, how many cars were judged?  Is the tail wagging the dog?

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I do admit that our team was at a bit of a loss since we were down one man and 2 of us were not feeling well. But. We did inform all the owners where mandatory deductions would need to be done. Most had no problem with this. Others seemed to not understand what was expected.

 I know at Denver last year there were cars in our classes that those owners knew what was expected and did go the extra effort for presentation and did very well.

 Many of what we were to judge this year were older, somewhat "interpretive" restorations. There were several nice gems though. A new young member wanted us to "hit him hard" as he said to learn about what he would need to improve upon. He was just learning about authenticity of his car. He seemed very grateful for our input. Another owner confided that he was more concerned with getting a high score so he could include that in the sale ad for the car. So, as one can see there are differing motivations as to getting a car judged.

 I thank my team members for their patience and understanding. Also the owners of the cars for being able to submit their cars to the rigors of this type of judging. Even with them knowing that there were deductions to be done.

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I am bit offended to see the word Trailer queen popping up here. It is a divisive and derogatory remark about the cars and owner all in itself. With our roads and driver attitudes the way the currently are. I believe many people trailer their cars (especially prewar cars) because they are too nervous driving any distance any more. This year , thirty percent of all cars judges were trailered . Most members with a car earlier than 1936, that live any distance away from the meet have very little chance of doing much else . I spoke to Bill McLaughiln , who takes his '29 everywhere and even he was a bit concerned about the speed of passing traffic. 

As to the judging at this year's National , if one were to look around the room at the Judges breakfast, most of the judges this years were guys and gals that have been doing this a long time . That alone should gives an indication that it was done fairly and knowledgeably . Having your car judged at any National Meet (regardless of marque) is playing with the big boys, so we should all be acting like big boys. 

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37 minutes ago, Jack Welch said:

I am bit offended to see the word Trailer queen popping up here. It is a divisive and derogatory remark about the cars and owner all in itself. With our roads and driver attitudes the way the currently are. I believe many people trailer their cars (especially prewar cars) because they are too nervous driving any distance any more. This year , thirty percent of all cars judges were trailered . Most members with a car earlier than 1936, that live any distance away from the meet have very little chance of doing much else . I spoke to Bill McLaughiln , who takes his '29 everywhere and even he was a bit concerned about the speed of passing traffic. 

As to the judging at this year's National , if one were to look around the room at the Judges breakfast, most of the judges this years were guys and gals that have been doing this a long time . That alone should gives an indication that it was done fairly and knowledgeably . Having your car judged at any National Meet (regardless of marque) is playing with the big boys, so we should all be acting like big boys. 

 

By your posting you have given me something to reconsider the next time I think about referring to a car as a "trailer queen" Jack.

 

With my cars being used as drivers, which I'm comfortable with, and having seen first hand the efforts and finish that 95Cardinal has accomplished with his '58 Caballero, it just makes so much sense to trailer his car to a meet for show (regardless of judging awards or not).

I personally would hate to get road chips on that somewhat flat 58 Hood or break a headlight or.... let alone dealing with panic stops in today's traffic after so much effort on the car!

In my mind it never was to be meant as divisive or derogatory but understand that it is all too generalised a statement usually said with a raised eyebrow...

 

Next time I comment on a car coming in like that I will drop the "queen" part and just appreciate the car (and owner) for what it is.  

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I have just been trying to get to a BCA National since the 2011 one in Danvers. All I want to do is get there. Something keeps coming up. I came close to flying out to both Milwaukee and Denver and renting a car to get there.

 

I want to get to the 2020 meet and see how the 100 year old car recognition is going. I remember what a big deal it was when they weren't saluted, haven't hear them mentioned the last two years. Funny how obsessions come and go.

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13 hours ago, dibarlaw said:

Others seemed to not understand what was expected.

 

Bingo. A major problem in any kind of serious judging.

 

When I was notably younger and far more motivated in the NCRS, my wife and I used to teach a seminar for judging newbies called Flight Judging (an approximate equivalent of 400-point judging, though a somewhat different approach) for First Timers. Our agenda would include:

 

  • Background on the Event
  • Before the Day of Judging
  • What to Bring
  • Flight Judging Basics
  • Operations
  • Preparing for Judging at the Meet
  • Judging
  • Tabulating and Wrap-up
  • What’s Next
  • Additional Questions

 

The folks who did show up for the seminar inevitably had a better judging experience, largely because they didn't make any unforced errors. Of course, getting people to self-identify as needing the information isn't always so easy.

Edited by J3Studio (see edit history)
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36 minutes ago, 60FlatTop said:

I have just been trying to get to a BCA National since the 2011 one in Danvers. All I want to do is get there. Something keeps coming up. I came close to flying out to both Milwaukee and Denver and renting a car to get there.

 

I want to get to the 2020 meet and see how the 100 year old car recognition is going. I remember what a big deal it was when they weren't saluted, haven't hear them mentioned the last two years. Funny how obsessions come and go.

The 100 year recognition program is alive and well, hope to see you in Ohio

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The term Trailer Queen is a state of mind and has little to do with rather the car arrived on a trailer or was driven.  Trailer Queens as a term is part of the collector car nomenclature whether we like it or not. Like "Barn Find" and "Ran it was Parked." 

 

How can one tell the difference between a Trailer Queen and a trailered car?  The Trailer Queen spends most of it's time in the enclosed trailer, is allowed out for judging only, at the least possible amount of time, and after judging is promptly taken back to the trailer and enclosed or a car cover is placed on it, if open trailered.  Movement out of the trailer and back on is done with utmost attention to possible damage, the driving experience being a non factor.  These are usually "one and done's" - cars we may never see again after they get their trophy. 

 

A Trailered car by contrast is enthusiastically driven down, horn beeping, friends gathering by, the number of it's inclusion in the National meet can be counted on more than one hand, more than likely, and anyone that wants to hop on is allowed to.  It lingers on the show field, is driven on the local tours, passers by are encouraged to sit in it.  Then reluctantly it is loaded up to return home. 

 

That is why Trailer Queen as a term has stuck with the old car hobby.

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