Thriller

Thoughts on the National, BCA, etc.

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I could have added these to the thread on the Skyhawk regarding our travels, but thought it was different enough in nature that it made sense to start a new thread.  Of course, what I’m about to type is going to be somewhat rambling.

 

Going in, I was a bit concerned about the size of the meet.  It isn’t that they all need to be massive events like Flint in 2003, but the numbers I’d heard about ahead of time had me wondering a bit what it would be like.  In the end, it was a fun meet.  Intimate would perhaps be a better word than small.  It was great to be able to see and meet friends old and new, meeting some forum members for the first time, and getting re-acquainted with folks I’ve now known for years.  Of course, there was a hole where @MrEarl was expected to be.  We communicate regularly, but I was looking to seeing him again.  It’s been too long.  I did think of Lamar when I noticed the label on the wine we had with dinner tonight - I will need to get a bottle to him.

 

First of all, the drive was fun.  Due to flooding, we got forced off I29 sooner than expected.  The detour laid out was long and headed east, which was the wrong direction, so we headed west and went on smaller highways throug Nebraska.  That was a good decision.  We had some interesting conversations at our stops and found that in the Great Plains in sunny weather in a car without air conditioning, it’s nice to slow down and open the windows without being buffeted by wind.  One thing for certain is that the Skyhawk is due for door weatherstripping.  Assuming I remember, I’m going to try to plan routes like this in the future...perhaps it is aging and the hair colour I’m sporting now, but the slightly slower pace was nice.  We did still do some Interstates, but avoided the toll roads...if states don’t collect enough taxes from us on gasoline and food and souvenirs, then perhaps another model is worth looking at.

 

This was the first time for me to spend in Kansas and Oklahoma.  I’m not quite sure what I was expecting, but they weren’t what I expected.  I guess I was thinking between farm land and range land.  There were many more trees than I anticipated, and considering we had a late spring up here, it was very nice and green.  We saw a variety of wildlife, primarily birds.  There were quite a few heron sightings, as well as turkey vultures, a cardinal, and a Tom turkey on the way home.  I’ve now visited 30 states assuming I counted right.  On our way home, we chatted with a farmer in Strong City, KS who said they got either 24 or 25” (I forget) of rain in May.  That explains why Kansas looked sodden.  If it isn’t the state bird of Kansas, based on our observation, I’d consider the turkey vulture - we saw more there than anywhere else.They are such a massive bird.  

 

Again with the expectations, I wasn’t sure what to expect of the section of Route 66 we travelled while at the meet.  For one, we decided to ride along with Lawrence from northern Alberta...his 1989 Estate Wagon was much more comfortable than the Skyhawk would have been, although it meant we don’t have any photos of our car on the road...perhaps another time.  It was an interesting combination of history with tourist attractions and tourist traps.  Seaba Station was something of a highlight for me and I’m not a motorcycle guy any more.  

 

I really enjoyed the meet.  I could have done with a bit less sun...I got some colour on the two days driving down.  

 

One thing that came to mind is that the club needs to look at something between 400 point and Modified judging.  There are a number of Buicks out there that aren’t modified enough for Modified judging, but they are different enough that they don’t stand a chance in 400 point judging.  Perhaps we could create a “Personalized” class where we could recognize those that have changed wheels, added pinstriping, etc to personalize their cars.  I’m not about hardware, but either the Mild category of Modified judging is too wild/radical, or we ought to create something in between so that these Buicks and their owners can get some recognition.

 

As often as I travel to the USA, I never seem to remember that “How ya doin’?” Is a greeting, not a question.

 

Wherever I travel, I do like to sample the local wines and / or beers.  This trip did not disappoint.  I got to taste an Iowa beer and Oklahoma wine and beer.  Aside from supporting the local economy, it’s trying new things.  I personally find that I prefer the smaller craft or micro-brewery product to the mass-produced stuff.  

 

The Skyhawk performed admirably, never missing a beat, although a

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Posted (edited)

It seems my iPad keyboard doesn’t want to work any more.

 

The Skyhawk performed well, although was a bit hard starting when warm. Most tanks were between 21 and 26 mpg using the small US gallons. Multiply by 1.2 to get miles per Imperial gallon. The only tank under 20 was including the running around in the meet area. Some of the time we had a tailwind. 

 

Were things perfect? Of course not...humans were involved. Was it a fun meet? Yes indeed. Thanks for the experience and the memories. 

 

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Edited by Thriller (see edit history)
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1 hour ago, Thriller said:

 

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YOU GOT YOUR GAS CAP BACK!!!

 

Any sign of the hubcap?

 

I should have nominated you for a hard luck award!  lol

 

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Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, Thriller said:

 

One thing that came to mind is that the club needs to look at something between 400 point and Modified judging.  There are a number of Buicks out there that aren’t modified enough for Modified judging, but they are different enough that they don’t stand a chance in 400 point judging.  Perhaps we could create a “Personalized” class where we could recognize those that have changed wheels, added pinstriping, etc to personalize their cars.  I’m not about hardware, but either the Mild category of Modified judging is too wild/radical, or we ought to create something in between so that these Buicks and their owners can get some recognition.

 

 

 

Yeah, I’m not sure what I would call a class for our ‘56, Ben’s ‘50, or Willie’s ‘55. 

 

“Looks stock, but is far more useful?”

 

Kinda wordy. 

 

“Factory on the outside, party underneath?”

 

”Built to drive, not to win?”

 

”Less polish, more fun?”

 

”Stock-ish?” lol

 

The fact that I put 300 miles on an unrestored, original engined, 63 year old car and it never missed a beat is probably reward enough. 

 

That, and the smile on the faces of one of my favorite professors, his son, and his granddaughter when I took them for a ride on Sunday before heading home... 

Edited by SpecialEducation (see edit history)
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I don't want to be a contrarian, but I am satisfied with the peer attention. Willies?  What?

  Derek, was good to see you again. And those GROWN younguns!

 

  Matt, was good to meet you.  Sorry I missed the "gathering".  I missed the text/email. I figured with Lamar not there ,it was off. My loss.

 

  Like Derek, I was initially disappointed in the car numbers. In the end, it was a good show.  Good job, North Texas!!

 

  Ben

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Yes, got the cap back.  I’d called back Friday afternoon to confirm it was there.  The lady at the counter when I got there was the same one who’d answered the phone Tuesday evening.  She said she’d sent a younger employee out to look who couldn’t find it...the next morning, she looked and saw it plain as day on top of the fuel pump.  “I’m short” was the excuse given.

 

I didn’t really car about the hub cap.  I know it came off in Canada, and we retraced our steps, but wasn’t really looking as I was getting anxious to get home.  There are some areas of significant construction, so it may have been destroyed for all I know.

 

I think “Personalized” could work for the in-between Buicks that aren’t modified enough for the Modified Division.  I remember back in 2013 in South Bend, I was told the 1976 Century Indy Pace Car Replica with Centerline wheels (how it was when I bought it) wasn’t modified enough for the Modified Driven class while the Driven Class at the time required Buick wheels.  It didn’t make sense to me, especially since the car was driven 1,000 miles to the meet.  Happily the Brian in charge of Driven judging ignored that rule and awarded it to the car anyway.  

 

In Class M this year, we had Ed’s Wildcat with different wheels and pinstriping on the car.  It’s a very nice car, but enough points were taken off that it didn’t get a bronze.  

 

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Posted (edited)
6 hours ago, Thriller said:

  Happily the Brian in charge of Driven judging ignored that rule and awarded it to the car anyway. 

 

I think in South Bend I was still the Brian in charge of driven, but SHHHH!!!...you'll get me in trouble...they will have to audit judging next...

Edited by 38Buick 80C (see edit history)
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Derek,

It was good to see you again and to be able to visit with you.  Your little Skyhawk is quite the car.  Every time I see one of them I think of a Chevy Vega.  Sorry 'bout that.  Now, about your comments on the judging.  Please tell me what is wrong with coming to a meet and just enjoying your friends and checking out the cars and/or trucks?  This judging business is discriminatory and divisive by nature.  What it does is tell an owner that his vehicle is better than yours and that yours simply doesn't measure up.  If you think that you had a good time at this meet, just imagine what a great time you would have if you did not have the pressure of competition hanging over your head.  It would then be all about having fun.  It is truly a sad thing that some folks do not know how to do that.  Just one person's thoughts here.

 

Terry Wiegand

South Hutchinson, Kansas

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Posted (edited)
3 hours ago, Terry Wiegand said:

Derek,

It was good to see you again and to be able to visit with you.  Your little Skyhawk is quite the car.  Every time I see one of them I think of a Chevy Vega.  Sorry 'bout that.  Now, about your comments on the judging.  Please tell me what is wrong with coming to a meet and just enjoying your friends and checking out the cars and/or trucks?  This judging business is discriminatory and divisive by nature.  What it does is tell an owner that his vehicle is better than yours and that yours simply doesn't measure up.  If you think that you had a good time at this meet, just imagine what a great time you would have if you did not have the pressure of competition hanging over your head.  It would then be all about having fun.  It is truly a sad thing that some folks do not know how to do that.  Just one person's thoughts here.

 

Terry Wiegand

South Hutchinson, Kansas

It's an even playing field, everyone has the same opportunity to either buy or  restore a car to be competitive.  Judging promotes cars being restored correctly, if the 400 formal judging were not a part of the national the quality of cars would suffer after a period of time.  I personally enjoy the competition and judging, don't really give a dang about the other garbage.  The way it is set up it can be enjoyed by all, the people that want judged are happy as they can have their car judged and the people that just want to come and enjoy having their car their can do that as well.  If you feel bad that your car is not up to snuff, then do something about it.  If you have a display and  properly fully restored car sitting beside a driver quality car, everyone is going to know the driver quality one doesn't measure up to the restored one, so what's the difference?? 

 

Edited by Y-JobFan (see edit history)
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Posted (edited)
34 minutes ago, Y-JobFan said:

It's an even playing field, everyone has the same opportunity to either buy restore a car to be competitive.  Judging promotes cars being restored correctly, if the 400 formal judging were not a part of the national the quality of cars would suffer after a period of time.  I personally enjoy the competition and judging, don't really give a dang about the other garbage.  The way it is set up it can be enjoyed by all, the people that want judged are happy as they can have their car judged and the people that just want to come and enjoy having their car their can do that as well.  If you feel bad that your car is not up to snuff, then do something about it.  If you have a display and  properly fully restored car sitting beside a driver quality car, everyone is going to know the driver quality one doesn't measure up to the restored one, so what's the difference?? 

 

Why does a driver car have to "measure" up?  Statements like that are exactly what keeps drivers and mild modified away from these shows.  I'm in this conundrum with buttercup now. Spending stupid amounts of money to get it to some "measure" so the car or myself are somehow validated?  Scr*w it.  Better places to put my money and I can enjoy my driver cars with my low brow friends that apparently are not doing anything about measuring up either.  I'll stick to local cruise ins where we dont have to measure our ***** to prove a point.

Edited by NC-car-guy (see edit history)
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Posted (edited)

I thank you Derek for your comments. It was so good to connect with you and Ben at his 1950 in the parking lot just gabbing .

 

"One thing that came to mind is that the club needs to look at something between 400 point and Modified judging.  There are a number of Buicks out there that aren’t modified enough for Modified judging, but they are different enough that they don’t stand a chance in 400 point judging.  Perhaps we could create a “Personalized” class where we could recognize those that have changed wheels, added pinstriping, etc to personalize their cars.  I’m not about hardware, but either the Mild category of Modified judging is too wild/radical, or we ought to create something in between so that these Buicks and their owners can get some recognition." 

 

 I totally understand the other's comments also. As a judge and Team Captain in the A-B and sometimes C class we have quite a span of technology to deal with in evaluations.  We did all the A-B and C. The Barrett's beautiful 1927 Sport Roadster at the event center on display was a joy to behold and I repeatedly told friends that I was glad that we did not have to judge it on the 400 point basis. I assumed it was for Display Only. They restored it to be a period modified car. The techniques and skill employed were admirable. Imagine my dissatisfaction when after completing our duties on the field and hurrying to get our results in for tabulation, I was told by the Meet Chief Judge that our team had to now judge that car! She told us that the Modified team would not do it. We agonized over how to moderate things on the 400 point scale to give proper credit on their outstanding achievement. 

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Edited by dibarlaw (see edit history)
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Having a car judged is optional. Nobody is forced to have a car judged.  People who do so have their reasons, among which, I believe, is a certain amount of " fun " in their view.

 

Likewise, spectators (which includes those who enter a car) will judge each car against what they want to see.  If someone enters a car in 400 point judging, and then looks at other cars, it is likely that they will judge what they see against the 400 point scale.  That is just human nature.  That happens in every event,  including Cruise-in's. 

 

BCA judging is not one car against the other.  It is all cars against a standard.  And it is also very generous.  I know that in the Cadillac club if your car has an option the owner must prove that it works or it loses points.  Think about all those AC empty systems and power antennas that Buick guys can skip by on. 

 

Derek makes a good point.  The main thing is EVERYBODY wants to feel that their car is worthy of recognition. 

 

Modified judging was set up so that it was car vs car judging with only a few winners in each class.  I had heard that that was adjusted to something where more awards could be earned, but do not know it to be a fact, nor how it is supposed to work.

 

But ultimately it is the responsibility of the participant to understand the rules of what they are getting into.  Not everyone will be a winner, and that does not means their entry lacks value.  But it has somehow come to mean that to the guy who walks away empty handed.

 

While another class or category could be beneficial for those cars which have been personalized,  it might be better to issue clear guidelines so that those with personalized cars can understand how their choices will be evaluated during BCA judging.    

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Guy Bennett Jr. wrote a piece fully describing the situation and reasoning behind the adoption of the 400 point judging system. I think the BCA Fingerlakes Chapter kicked it off at the 2005 Nationals in Batavia.

 

I can't find Guy's writeup in my files. Maybe someone saved it. This would be a good place to post the reasoning. It was a compelling statement.

Bernie

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I dont mind the judging for those that enter that part of the show. What I don't like is the "judging" of those that don't by those that do.

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2 minutes ago, NC-car-guy said:

What I don't like is the "judging" of those that don't by those that do.

 

This is always going to happen in some way , shape, or form. It even happens at the Cruise-in's.  And it is not unique to just this hobby.  

Further I think it is done by 100% of the population,  just some people are not conscious of, or capable of, being discreet about it.  

 

 

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1 minute ago, JohnD1956 said:

 

This is always going to happen in some way , shape, or form. It even happens at the Cruise-in's.  And it is not unique to just this hobby.  

Further I think it is done by 100% of the population,  just some people are not conscious of, or capable of, being discreet about it.  

 

 

Judging the car ? Sure.  Judging the owner for their decision on how to present their car? I've no time for.

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12 hours ago, Thriller said:

It seems my iPad keyboard doesn’t want to work any more.

 

The Skyhawk performed well, although was a bit hard starting when warm. Most tanks were between 21 and 26 mpg using the small US gallons. Multiply by 1.2 to get miles per Imperial gallon. The only tank under 20 was including the running around in the meet area. Some of the time we had a tailwind. 

 

Were things perfect? Of course not...humans were involved. Was it a fun meet? Yes indeed. Thanks for the experience and the memories. 

 

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I can honestly see why you needed those Skyhawk wheels I spotted on the local CL, just sayin'.

 

But otherwise, this is a nice car, unusual and an important part of Buick history in my opinion.

They just reopened I29 for your information.  That is a great route.  Skirting the low moraine valley with the Loess Hills to your east.  Omaha would be a nice National meet destination. Lots of history, railroad stuff, great driving routes, eateries.

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16 minutes ago, NC-car-guy said:

I dont mind the judging for those that enter that part of the show. What I don't like is the "judging" of those that don't by those that do.

 

 

I don't think I was in the lot 5 minutes and I had people telling their friends, "Wow, you gotta come look at this," and not in a nice way.

It's a mostly original driver with dents, bondo, and rusty rocker panels.  No, it's not a 400 point car.  Probably not a 100 point car, but you know what?  I drove it 300 miles last week, it ran perfect, and I didn't cry when it got rained on. lol

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Thanks for the great travelogue, Derek. Road trips like that are my favorite part of the hobby. Maybe a little risk but always an adventure. We shouldn't be afraid to drive our cars--that's what they want to do!

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Just now, SpecialEducation said:

 

 

I don't think I was in the lot 5 minutes and I had people telling their friends, "Wow, you gotta come look at this," and not in a nice way.
 

That's the uppity crap I hate!   Good for you driving it there and being different!

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Just one member's opinion - National and Regional meets will increase in attendance when judging is de-emphasized and there is sincere, and honest reach out to all of the new members that join, many for one year (one and done's) to attend a National meet and make sure they are welcomed.

 

Provide a discount for National meet attendance to all new members.  You will make it up the 1st year by having more judges to judge YOUR cars and later on when they return. 


The last 2 meets have had far less than 200 registrations, yet were in phenomenal historically high density of membership and attraction locations.  Is there any doubt that 10 to 15 years ago the Midwest City meet would have drawn 300 to 350 cars?   

 

It was my understanding from eyewitnesses that once a car was judged on Saturday that most of them left the show field.  The trailer queens were loaded up, and the contestants waited for the banquet to receive their awards.  Unless the weather was ominous, personally, I would like to be able to walk through the show field like it was a small town festival show - where no one technically leaves until the trophies are handed out. 

 

If you do so, then the non judged and the judged are together in chronological order and instead of dispersing on this important day, all BCA members can mingle, renew friendships, make new ones.   This can certainly be done informally Weds-Friday, but Saturday afternoon is the one best opportunity to attend a BCA Super Bowl.

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10 minutes ago, SpecialEducation said:

I don't think I was in the lot 5 minutes and I had people telling their friends, "Wow, you gotta come look at this," and not in a nice way

 

It becomes one's prerogative to respond to people like that.  I choose not to.  Let em think what they will.  I assume people like that are just unconscious of common courtesy. 

 

And when I see a perfect car being driven out of a trailer I always think, what a sad affair.  But I choose not to say anything like that out loud.  It's their car, and their way.  Ultimately both cars are at the same event, which make them equal in my eyes.   And I know at least one guy who appreciates my cars for what they are.  That's this guy, the one who drove it there. 

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Just an opinion as a member that has participated in the judging program since its inception. All single marque car clubs have judging as a part of their National meets.  The BCA 400 point system works better than most because it is in fact judging an automobile against a standard. A plain black  2 door sedan "stripo" model has exactly the same chance of wining an award as does the yellow convertible in the same class. If a member wants to have his car judged, It is the fairest system I have seen It was originally derived from the AACA system. For members that want to be recognized with an award and have driven their car, they can apply for a driven award. Those that have a totally unrestored car can achieve an archival award. Those that just want to sit and have fun with their friends can just display their car. Those that just want to tour can register for the driving tours , that are usually part of any national Meet, or they can join the BDE and go on an after meet tour. I don't know of any other Club , that offers that many possibilities for "FUN" . 

The one issue is the no man's land of judging as Larry D had stated. That roadster did not really fit in any category. But I had a talk with the owner early on telling him that, and he did new seem to care. He was thrilled that his car was featured . I do not know of a simple solution to the issue of cars that fall through the cracks in the judging process, but I have to go back to the original thought process behind 400 point judging, and that was to insure that a car wining an award at a BCA meet would be "as it left the factory".

The only real trophies that matter to me in my garage are the cars them selves. All that said, I do believe that going forward, the modified cars should be more integrated in to the Chief judges wheelhouse . They currently get judged separately,. and on a different standard than 400 point cars. Another going forward will be "Clone" cars as we get more  more GS cars in the club. That issue came up in Denver last year. No system is perfect. The important thing is that the Club works proactively to correct issues as they come up.

I had included a questionnaire in this year's registration packet inviting comments on the National Meets in general. So far, I have receive back just under thirty replies. The members sending in the forms overwhelmingly (95%) indicate that their favorite reason for attending is seeing their friends and seeing the cars., Other reason were to have their car judged (35%). 

The logic seems clear to me that , if we had no cars, we would not have had attendees. Approximately 25% indicated that their favorite part of a National is the tours . Virtually all replies indicate  the meets should be moved around to various parts of the Country. No one sending back form indicated anything about the meets, they did not like. We got sone good suggestions about other possible activities. The BCA is a healthy Club in every respect. We have room for everyone to enjoy a National Meet with out wanting  to rain on others' parade.  JUST GIVING MY OPINION

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18 minutes ago, B Jake Moran said:

Just one member's opinion - National and Regional meets will increase in attendance when judging is de-emphasized and there is sincere, and honest reach out to all of the new members that join, many for one year (one and done's) to attend a National meet and make sure they are welcomed.

 

Provide a discount for National meet attendance to all new members.  You will make it up the 1st year by having more judges to judge YOUR cars and later on when they return. 


The last 2 meets have had far less than 200 registrations, yet were in phenomenal historically high density of membership and attraction locations.  Is there any doubt that 10 to 15 years ago the Midwest City meet would have drawn 300 to 350 cars?   

 

It was my understanding from eyewitnesses that once a car was judged on Saturday that most of them left the show field.  The trailer queens were loaded up, and the contestants waited for the banquet to receive their awards.  Unless the weather was ominous, personally, I would like to be able to walk through the show field like it was a small town festival show - where no one technically leaves until the trophies are handed out. 

 

If you do so, then the non judged and the judged are together in chronological order and instead of dispersing on this important day, all BCA members can mingle, renew friendships, make new ones.   This can certainly be done informally Weds-Friday, but Saturday afternoon is the one best opportunity to attend a BCA Super Bowl.

I really like good guys events.  I attend every time in NC.  It casual, friendly, and fun!

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16 minutes ago, JohnD1956 said:

 

 

It becomes one's prerogative to respond to people like that.  I choose not to.  Let em think what they will.  I assume people like that are just unconscious of common courtesy. 

 

 

I'd like to think that they didn't know I was the one that brought the car, or they would have been less obvious (maybe).  I just don't understand the need for people to rub their greasy mitts all over my black paint!  lol

 

I was given some 1962 stuff at a swap meet a few years ago.  It was free to me, so I just wanted to pass it along.  I intentionally sought out a '62 that was cared for but noticeably less than perfect, found the owner, and asked if he had any such articles.  When he said "No," I simply said, "You do now," and shook his hand.  I'm not sure how better to spread good will through the club.  

I wasn't too worried about bringing Pepper down because I knew there would be nicer examples of '90 Reattas there, but it was kinda fun to have the nicest '56 Riviera in the lot (only because it was the ONLY '56 Riv in the lot)!  

The one thing the meet convinced me of is that I REALLY need to get Stringfellow to a national!

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