MrEarl

1979 Estate Wagon, AC Blower and Carburetor Problems

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Posted (edited)
6 hours ago, dmfconsult said:

I think it was brought up earlier, but have you ruled out exhaust issues (plugged cat or broken baffle in the muffler?) to explain some of the power and bogging issues?  We had a plugged cat in a 76 Pontiac wagon and it would not climb hills either. 

 

I would also be looking at vacuum lines and the condition of the coil as well, as problems there could explain some of the symptoms. 

 

Doug, I went to replace the bent 90* exhaust tailpipe today with one I had ordered from Summit last week and discovered they sent the wrong size. I reordered this afternoon and hopefully will have it mid morning tomorrow.

 

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Edited by MrEarl (see edit history)

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When one wants increased performance from a late model Rochester Quadrajet, one calls Cliff Ruggles of Cliff's High Performance. Period.

 

Cliff wrote the second book on Q-Jets (the first was by Doug Roe).

 

Call him. Tell him what has been done to the engine, and what you want, then LISTEN (remember the old E.F. Hutton commercials)?

 

I have read lots of books in 60 years of working on carburetors. Cliff's ranks as the number one as far as being "user friendly", and among the top three, period. Plus, you don't have to have an advanced degree in mathematics to understand what is written.

 

Jon.

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I can not say I have seen any wires routed by the manifold like that. GM ran wires between the valve cover and intake manifold to items mounted in the front of the engine. .  My guess is head replacement found the wire in its current position and left there. 

 

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1 hour ago, avgwarhawk said:

I can not say I have seen any wires routed by the manifold like that. GM ran wires between the valve cover and intake manifold to items mounted in the front of the engine. .  My guess is head replacement found the wire in its current position and left there. 

 

curious how the wire connector has that clip made into it though if it wasn't original though. I may have to fab up a new connection and if so may reroute the wiring then. Sure would like to find a 78-79 EW parts car somewhere close by.

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Posted (edited)
2 hours ago, carbking said:

When one wants increased performance from a late model Rochester Quadrajet, one calls Cliff Ruggles of Cliff's High Performance. Period.

 

Cliff wrote the second book on Q-Jets (the first was by Doug Roe).

 

Call him. Tell him what has been done to the engine, and what you want, then LISTEN (remember the old E.F. Hutton commercials)?

 

I have read lots of books in 60 years of working on carburetors. Cliff's ranks as the number one as far as being "user friendly", and among the top three, period. Plus, you don't have to have an advanced degree in mathematics to understand what is written.

 

Jon.

 

Jon, I edited the title of this thread purposely in hopes you might see it and weigh in, thanks!! 😊  I actually ordered the book a couple days ago but honestly need to get this carb off and to someone probably before I receive and have a chance to read it. I've read that the turnaround time for Cliff to get a carb back to you can be up to 12 weeks. I simply don't have that kind of time with this car as we already missed a much anticipated trip and have another make up trip planned in about 4-5 weeks. I'll be talking with Cliff and seeing what kind

of timeline and dollars I'll be looking at with him though. Thanks again for weighing in.

 

 

 

5 hours ago, Brad Conley said:

 

I concur. I would strongly advise you to use what you have now, so long as it is correct for your application. The biggest mistakes people make is: 1) using an aftermarket part when the OEM part was designed by people that actually know what they are doing ( ie-Holley vs Quadrajet) and buying a rebuilt part from a giant wholesaler (Auto Zone comes to mind) that was rebuilt using a mishmash of wrong parts. Lamar, the three rebuilders you listed will all do an excellent job for you. 

 

From all my research so far I have gained a pretty good appreciation for this carb and definitely want to stay with a Quadrejet and hopefully this one. I do need to get this car on the road sooner than later though so that may play into where it goes for rebuild. I've got a week or two of other work I could be doing to the car while it is off and being built. So will need to take all that into account.

Thanks for your thoughts and info, I really appreciate it.

 

Some pics I took today while checking for possible vacuum hose issues. I did see that I will need a new throttle cable end. Also this wagon came from California and in decoding the model # I see it is a California only carb.  Anybody have any info on what difference that might make with it.

 

805BCA6E-A976-482E-A30B-C7EB0C4E6E59.thumb.jpeg.5d2b9b161c84c9c27df17423e8e990b8.jpeg

 

 

34A9CC76-8101-4CA8-A919-E613B62894E4.thumb.jpeg.e252930f81b7eb79c0108f0bce50967c.jpeg

 

 

33A78363-8B0B-4D19-83A7-8DA348D571F9.thumb.jpeg.491751649d053cc3ab2004a5f30b50da.jpeg

 

 

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Edited by MrEarl (see edit history)

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Posted (edited)
7 hours ago, JohnD1956 said:

What is that wide open throttle switch?  Never saw one of those in a Buick powered Wagon.  It would seem that when activated by putting your foot into it, the AC would shut down automatically? I wonder if this is an underlying cause of several problems.  

 

@JohnD1956 both engines listed on those pages are non Buick. Top is the Olds 403 (R, K code) while the bottom showing the open throttle switch is a Pontiac 301 (Y code). Keep in mind it’s also a 78 manual not a 79. 

 

The Y series picture was the only one showing the radial a/c compressor and associated wiring.  I guess in 78 the 403 still had the A6 compressor, although a Cali car could have been equipped differently I guess

Edited by dmfconsult (see edit history)
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Cliff does have a significant backlog, but that is simply a testament to the quality of his work!

 

There are others that can rebuild these carbs for stock applications; but if the application is going to be non-stock, then live with it until you can live without it while Cliff is redoing it.

 

The other possible solution, since you have the book on order, would be wait until the book arrives, then give Cliff a call. Tell him exactly what you are wishing from the application. He offers the same level rebuilding kits on these last model carbs as do I on earlier ones. And he will give you excellent advice. See what he recommends, and if you feel comfortable with any necessary machine work, order what he suggests.

 

Just remember that so many carburetor rebuilders have gone out of business, and if you find one that will give you 48 hour turnaround, THERE IS A REASON!

 

Jon.

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25 minutes ago, JohnD1956 said:

@MrEarlWhat is this linkage for?

 

796926395_lamarscarb.thumb.jpg.523cb6919909cbb37f574f4409864c84.jpg

 

JD I have no freakin idea, was about to ask you😁. Did your wagon not have one?  I suspect it may be smog/emissions related. You can’t see in the picture but it’s attached to a huge diaphragm. It’s big, ugly and in the way and would love to see it gone if possible as well as any other emission related parts that aren’t absolutely necessary. Here it is in in its full glory 

 

CF838D6E-1BBB-4477-8447-A46EA91A61AC.thumb.jpeg.c589b1a10bc819fbcdcb911111dcccc8.jpeg

 

 

and this, wondering what it is too. 

 

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I know I could probably find it in the shop manual but jeeze I’m spending so dang much time researching and trying to learn and figure s  out I never get to actually work on s. 

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8 minutes ago, NC-car-guy said:

Is that linkage your cruise control?

 

I think so, the cruise control vacuum servo. Well scratch doing away with that then, it just became beautiful!!!!

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12 hours ago, MrEarl said:

curious how the wire connector has that clip made into it though if it wasn't original though. I may have to fab up a new connection and if so may reroute the wiring then. Sure would like to find a 78-79 EW parts car somewhere close by.

 

I see the clip.  Possibly used to secure the wire to a hard fuel line to the carb or similar.  The only time I have seen a wire routed by the exhaust manifolds it usually connect to a knock sensor in the block or head.     

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1 hour ago, MrEarl said:

 

JD I have no freakin idea, was about to ask you😁. Did your wagon not have one?  I suspect it may be smog/emissions related. You can’t see in the picture but it’s attached to a huge diaphragm. It’s big, ugly and in the way and would love to see it gone if possible as well as any other emission related parts that aren’t absolutely necessary. Here it is in in its full glory 

 

CF838D6E-1BBB-4477-8447-A46EA91A61AC.thumb.jpeg.c589b1a10bc819fbcdcb911111dcccc8.jpeg

 

 

and this, wondering what it is too. 

 

E26E721D-68B2-49C1-A85D-CFECF3F485B8.thumb.jpeg.034ba3c39c4f066b003d25228303df8e.jpeg

 

I know I could probably find it in the shop manual but jeeze I’m spending so dang much time researching and trying to learn and figure s  out I never get to actually work on s. 

 

 

Cruise control top pic.  EGR bottom pic. 

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52 minutes ago, MrEarl said:

I did all that on my 76 Olds and it did not affect performance, but the oil stayed cleaner longer.

Check the timing and read the setting carefully.  My 76 has is set at 12*@2400 rpm, vs 2*@300rpm on our old iron.

When the cam was changed in mine the timing had to be set the old way:  advance until pinging at WOT, then back off...also had to use an adjustable vacuum advance to eliminate part throttle detonation.

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11 hours ago, MrEarl said:

 

Jon, I edited the title of this thread purposely in hopes you might see it and weigh in, thanks!! 😊  I actually ordered the book a couple days ago but honestly need to get this carb off and to someone probably before I receive and have a chance to read it. I've read that the turnaround time for Cliff to get a carb back to you can be up to 12 weeks. I simply don't have that kind of time with this car as we already missed a much anticipated trip and have another make up trip planned in about 4-5 weeks. I'll be talking with Cliff and seeing what kind

of timeline and dollars I'll be looking at with him though. Thanks again for weighing in.

 

 

 

 

From all my research so far I have gained a pretty good appreciation for this carb and definitely want to stay with a Quadrejet and hopefully this one. I do need to get this car on the road sooner than later though so that may play into where it goes for rebuild. I've got a week or two of other work I could be doing to the car while it is off and being built. So will need to take all that into account.

Thanks for your thoughts and info, I really appreciate it.

 

Some pics I took today while checking for possible vacuum hose issues. I did see that I will need a new throttle cable end. Also this wagon came from California and in decoding the model # I see it is a California only carb.  Anybody have any info on what difference that might make with it.

 

805BCA6E-A976-482E-A30B-C7EB0C4E6E59.thumb.jpeg.5d2b9b161c84c9c27df17423e8e990b8.jpeg

 

 

34A9CC76-8101-4CA8-A919-E613B62894E4.thumb.jpeg.e252930f81b7eb79c0108f0bce50967c.jpeg

 

 

33A78363-8B0B-4D19-83A7-8DA348D571F9.thumb.jpeg.491751649d053cc3ab2004a5f30b50da.jpeg

 

 

35D04830-6E22-4FB5-A982-15EDF272B99D.thumb.jpeg.312acf78b6174af7680cf2b7acb31438.jpeg

 

 

 

 

 

Choke pull off is probably shot.  You can put a vacuum pump on that to check.  I would say a good rebuild, or at the very least, open and cleaning is prudent.  Replace the accelerator pump.   

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1 hour ago, old-tank said:

 

When the cam was changed in mine the timing had to be set the old way:  advance until pinging at WOT, then back off...also had to use an adjustable vacuum advance to eliminate part throttle detonation.

 

Yep.

 

Any car that has had the EGR removed has way too much timing at part throttle cruise. Probably about 10 crankshaft degrees too much. Sometimes you can make a stop to reduce the travel in the vacuum advance. If not you'll need an adjustable one. Vacuum should be ported vacuum from the carburetor.

 

Some cars from that era also ran the idle timing retarded. If advancing until there is no pinging at full throttle results in ignition timing too retarded at idle, then the centrifugal curve in the distributor will also need work.

 

 

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Are we still speaking in English here?

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Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, MrEarl said:

Are we still speaking in English here?

 

Rebuild the carb.  Leave the EGR valve alone.  Just make sure it is moving when vacuum is applied.  Set base timing per the manual.  Your engine has HEI ignition that is quite trouble free, however, you may look up a ignition module to keep on hand and a coil just in case.  I can say ignition modules do die and I have replaced many in this type of system.  Ignition coils have good service life.  I have not replaced many in this type of ignition system.      👍

Edited by avgwarhawk (see edit history)
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12 hours ago, carbking said:

Cliff does have a significant backlog, but that is simply a testament to the quality of his work!

 

There are others that can rebuild these carbs for stock applications; but if the application is going to be non-stock, then live with it until you can live without it while Cliff is redoing it.

 

The other possible solution, since you have the book on order, would be wait until the book arrives, then give Cliff a call. Tell him exactly what you are wishing from the application. He offers the same level rebuilding kits on these last model carbs as do I on earlier ones. And he will give you excellent advice. See what he recommends, and if you feel comfortable with any necessary machine work, order what he suggests.

 

Just remember that so many carburetor rebuilders have gone out of business, and if you find one that will give you 48 hour turnaround, THERE IS A REASON!

 

Jon.

 

 

When I checked a couple of years ago, Cliff was out two years.  It may be different today, but when I called....

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Saw your reaction, Lamar.  I know most of the others have a 2-3 month turn-a-round time.  This is a winter down time project.

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32 minutes ago, Brad Conley said:

 

Saw your reaction, Lamar.  I know most of the others have a 2-3 month turn-a-round time.  This is a winter down time project.

 

 

 

I registered on Cliffs forum today, not accepted yet. Was planning on filling out a quote request in the morning but now wonder if there’s any need. I understand and appreciate that most folks who have carbs built through Cliff  and others in the business are likely in long term projects and can schedule accordingly. 

I’ll probably still give him a shot along with some others. I had an old school mechanic who had a shop and worked on our driver stuff for 30 or so years but retired last year. He sold the shop but retained use of his carburetor bench there and still works on carbs now and then. Maybe I’ll give him a call and see If he might be interested. 

 

 

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Why not get one or two cans of carb cleaner and just blast it while its on the engine?  Inside the airhorn, primary and secondary, and see if it becomes acceptable?  Seems you'd have nothing to lose by trying.  

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Got the correct size tailpipe 90* bend this morning, cut the bent one off and installed it.

0518E376-7D4D-4A95-B1E6-3091AB982E76.thumb.jpeg.0d18731bfda5f884c6c0090912a458f2.jpeg

 

The rust flakes were loose in the engine side of the pipe.  I never realized how closed up it was until I was able to see it from this perspective. 

 

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Spent the afternoon cruising the countryside and checking power, shifts and temperatures. Happy to report conclusively an improvement in temperatures. Ambient temperature 92* Top of thermostat housing 188-195. Bottom of thermostat housing never exceeded 225 where as that was where the high of 250-60 was when checked while towing. Radiator cap never got too hot to put hand on whereas before it definitely did. Transmission  pan never exceeded 195 and I kicked it down on quite a few steep hills. 

 

I really want to believe that I saw some improvement in acceleration and overall engine performance but afraid it may be a psychological thing upon having finally gotten that bent pipe replaced. It still backfired a couple times and hesitated when going full throttle from low or half throttle. The real test would be taking the Argosy back on the same roads and hills as before. 

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