Power Window problem

[ptt]

My '90 Convertible driverside power window rolls down about half way then starts making a loud ratcheting noise and stops going down.  It will go back up but when it gets all the way up to the top it does the same loud ratcheting noise.  I removed the door panel and felt around on the curved sprocket to see if the teeth had stripped but they felt OK.  As the motor moves the window just halfway up and down could it be something inside it has stripped gearwise?  Also, do holes have to be drilled through the inner door skin to access the rivets that mount the motor itself?  Is there a video tutorial on the Reatta power window repair somewhere online???  Thanks.  

[Ronnie]

Sounds like you need a new window motor/gearbox (sold as a unit).  You should get to know my website better. There are a lot of tutorials there like this one. Window Motor Replacement Instructions

[ptt]

Will do!  Thanks Ronnie!!!

[B Jake Moran]

Just read those instructions.  Even though I am a mechanic, the warnings about spring tension release scared me.  I will proceed with caution on my parts cars, for removal.   I also see power window motors on ebay all the time, supposed NOS (yet they source them from SE Asia, hhmmm)  that are motor only. 

 

When I turned wrenches I worked on Subarus and Mazdas and did my fair share of power window motors R & R's.  But always was amazed at the difficulty the guys working on Pontiacs (one of our other dealership brands, and obviously GM) had with their power window removals and replacement.  Drilling through rivets? 

 

If you can update this thread, with photos - that would be great.  I will try and do the same.

[harry yarnell]

The three rivets are aluminum. Just drill off the heads and pop the rest thru.

There's a way of pinning the spring so it won't fly off.

Later '90's GM's had motors held with three 10mm bolts...and replaceable from the trim panel side.

Five minute job.

[Spazzaroth]

That's funny, I just had the same thing happen to me in my 89 coupe.  It sounds like some gears are grinding when I try to roll the window up and I can shake the window to get it to roll all the way down but then I have to pull it all the way up.  the window is working fine before the car sat for two months while I tried to repair it and then once I started driving it again I noticed the window was not working right.

[Ronnie]

3 hours ago, Spazzaroth said:

That's funny, I just had the same thing happen to me in my 89 coupe.  It sounds like some gears are grinding when I try to roll the window up and I can shake the window to get it to roll all the way down but then I have to pull it all the way up.  the window is working fine before the car sat for two months while I tried to repair it and then once I started driving it again I noticed the window was not working right.

 

Your problem might could be helped by lubricating the tracks. My windows got really slow and spraying WD-40 in the track made a huge difference. Roll the window down and stick the spray tube down between the window and the track on the front side and spray. Then carefully pull back the black boot on the other end of the door so you can spray that track too. Run the window up and down (maybe part way to begin with). Repeat until the window track is well lubricated. Your window will get oily but it will clean up.

[Ronnie]

8 hours ago, B Jake Moran said:

I also see power window motors on ebay all the time, supposed NOS (yet they source them from SE Asia, hhmmm)  that are motor only. 

 

New ones are relatively inexpensive and almost any auto parts store will have them in stock or can get them quickly.  Although they are commonly called "window motors" all I have seen for a Reatta are actually an electric motor and a gearbox made as a single unit. Not to say you can't buy the electric motor separately,  I've just never seen them sold that way.

[B Jake Moran]

13 hours ago, Ronnie said:

 

New ones are relatively inexpensive and almost any auto parts store will have them in stock or can get them quickly.  Although they are commonly called "window motors" all I have seen for a Reatta are actually an electric motor and a gearbox made as a single unit. Not to say you can't buy the electric motor separately,  I've just never seen them sold that way.

That's one reason I have not pulled the trigger on any purchases.  I don't need parts that don't fit. It seems on ebay a part "fits everything." 

[ptt]

If Ive read correctly the loud ratcheting is because the internal gears in the motor are plastic or nylon.  Why would this be?  Engineered to fail?  I bought a replacement motor thru AMAZON that claimed to be the correct one for my '90 Reatta.  The mounting holes appear to lineup right but initially I thought the end where the electrical connector plugs in was not long enough to use the existing hole to rivet it.  Then I noticed that there is a separate bracket on the end of the old motor that needs to be placed on the new motor!  The new unit is clearly stamped MADE IN CHINA but I tested it before hand and it worked fine.  I would love to record the process but Im no Quinten Tarentino by any means.  Ive had off and on rain showers here and with no covered facilities its been sporatic just trying to get work done.  I will make sure and post my results and or problems.  Thanks all.   

[B Jake Moran]

I understand.  I will likely take photos of everything I do.   I suppose Nylon or plastic is used for a couple of reasons.  Weight and yes, cost savings over metal.  Remember a couple of things.  New, Reatta windows are not hard on a motor.  They are small-ish especially for a 2 door model and the distance traveled is not too far. #2 -  Planned obsolescence means that Buick never intended for Reattas (or most cars for that matter) to "collected" for over 30 years or so, so yes they were built for a certain service life and as they got older, with the heat and cold cycles of most cars, had greater resistance to movement than engineered, they fail. Or slow down.  Then fail.

[Ronnie]

1 hour ago, B Jake Moran said:

I suppose Nylon or plastic is used for a couple of reasons.  Weight and yes, cost savings over metal. 

 

I think you could add sound as one of the main reasons plastic gears are used.  Sometimes a metal gear and plastic gear are used together for that reason.  Plastic gears are almost silent compared to metal to metal gears, especially if they are straight cut gears.  Helical cut gears are a little quieter but I've not seen them used in a window regulator.

Edited June 17, 2019 by Ronnie (see edit history)

[ptt]

Finally got time to fix my window problem.  Ive had a window motor off of Amazon sitting for weeks.  It was clearly stamped MADE IN CHINA so I bench tested it. Worked fine. I used 1/4in pop rivet gun I have had for years to reinstall the motor to the sissor mechanism and the to the inner door skin.  The lower track for the window sissor mechanism uses its same bolts to re-attach it to the inner door skin.  Motor/sissor mechanism/lower track was removed all at the same time as a unit.  The hardest part of reassembly for me was getting that sissor mechanism fed back into the UPPER track.  After multiple attempts I found that feeding the front roller wheel into the track towards the rear from the front and then rolling it rearward to feed the second roller wheel into the track from the rear going forward worked best for me.  There are two upper rollers and one lower roller wheel facing opposite directions to this sissor mechanism.  Its quite the excercise in working by feel.  I drilled a hole and stuck a 1/4in bolt and nut to lock the coiled steel spring in place after removal of the motor and sissor mechanism as a unit from the door.  To me it appears that the coiled spring assists the window going up but the weight of the window is what assists the motor when lowering it.  I did have to drill out the rivets in the old motor and the new CHINESE made motor to remount it to the sissor mechanism but to my relief ALL the holes actually lined up when I pop-riveted it back on the sissor mechanism.  I realize not everyone has a 1/4in rivet tool but I wouldn't try using smaller rivets for this project.  I did use a small angle grinder to remove the 5 rivets holding the motor/sissors mechanism to the inner door skin.  Then I used a drill to remove the rivets on the old motor from the sissor mechanism and enlarge the holes in the new motor AND sissor mechanism when remounting the motor.  After all was done I realized why people use mechanics gloves!  Ive got more cuts and scrapes on my hands and fingers to ever do this type project without them.  And Ive got two other windows starting to do the noisy racheting so my next trip to the parts store is for some of those afore mentioned gloves!  Thank you to all.  

Edited June 20, 2019 by ptt
spelling.... (see edit history)

[Barney Eaton]

It was mentioned above that the Reatta window motor is a common GM part...........true,  they used it on many different vehicles.   also one part number fits either side.

The hardest part of doing the job is getting the motivation to do it.

[ptt]

AMEN to that!

[padgett]

Last time I did mine it was with a Siemans replacement and I used 1/2" 1/4-20 bolts, nuts and lockwashers. Been there for over a decade now.

[Chrisssssssss]

I have the same problem on my '89 passenger side. It goes down like 1/3 starts to make grinding noise then once it goes back up and gets to the top it makes a louder grinding noise. Gonna attempt to look at it soon. I may go to pick n pull get me a window motor too. I will also post back when I get a chance to rip into it.