arnulfo de l.a.

How much longer for the internal combustion engine?

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Volvo already starting to phase them out with a plan of 50% of their sales to be all electric by 2025. I am 63 and of the opinion that i will see them completely phased out within my lifetime. What say you men?

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                   I don't see it happening any time soon. It's easy to state that you are going to make nothing but electric cars but it is a whole

other matter to get people to buy them. I don't know anyone who drives one or wants one. Just cause a car is sitting on a dealer's lot doesn't mean they can sell it. There is a certain percentage of the population that would buy them........I don't believe that percentage comes even close to 50 per cent of the populace. The only way it will ever happen is if the Democrats get control of the presidency and Congress and enacts their GREEN NEW DEAL making

it illegal to operate a gasoline powered car. If they do that, all hell will break loose. As for me, I know which lever to pull when I vote from now until hell freezes over. I don't want my Riviera legislated out of existence.

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When electric cars are capable of sustained mileage like gas and diesel cars, and you can recharge as quickly as you can gas up, I think electric cars will be accepted by 99.9% of the population.  Gas will need to be available to perpetuate the old car hobby, and needed until every "old" car is no longer on the road.  Perhaps the gov't. will authorize another cash for clunkers deal just to get the gas guzzlers off the highway.  I'm all for any kind of renewable energy sources.  But as long as big oil companies have a say in politics, it ain't going to happen soon.

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3 minutes ago, RivNut said:

When electric cars are capable of sustained mileage like gas and diesel cars, and you can recharge as quickly as you can gas up, I think electric cars will be accepted by 99.9% of the population.  Gas will need to be available to perpetuate the old car hobby, and needed until every "old" car is no longer on the road.  Perhaps the gov't. will authorize another cash for clunkers deal just to get the gas guzzlers off the highway.  I'm all for any kind of renewable energy sources.  But as long as big oil companies have a say in politics, it ain't going to happen soon.

 

All of this is correct. There will still be internal combustion engines in service after we're all dead. It's far less likely that new cars with internal combustion engines will be for sale a quarter of a century out.

 

The pure electrics have improved rapidly. It is unreasonable to believe that they can't continue to improve at a substantial rate.

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4 hours ago, arnulfo de l.a. said:

Volvo already starting to phase them out with a plan of 50% of their sales to be all electric by 2025. I am 63 and of the opinion that i will see them completely phased out within my lifetime. What say you men?

 

If they are so popular, why did GM phase out the Chevy Volt?

 

Bob Bonto

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19 minutes ago, bob71GS said:

 

If they are so popular, why did GM phase out the Chevy Volt?

 

Bob Bonto

Chevy was out of their lane. Chevy has always been a meat and potatoes brand. If it was a buick or olds, it probably would have sold more. I think right now electric is seen as a premium, and a bragging point.

 

I personally like electric, instant torque sounds fun. Seen how fast tesla's are? 

 

Electric cars were extremely popular 100 years ago, because they didn't catch fire and stink and stain everything. If automotive technology hadn't been taken over by the gas engine, who knows how advanced it would be by now. I don't think the gas engine is going away or will be outlawed. Too much money being made.

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Posted (edited)
32 minutes ago, bob71GS said:

 

If they are so popular, why did GM phase out the Chevy Volt?

 

Bob Bonto

It was a Chevy Volt.  Need i say more?

 

Who isn't drooling to get their hands on something like a Tesla.  One shock to owners of electric cars will be imposed road taxes.  Most of  the revenues used to maintain and build roads and bridges comes from fuel taxes.  No fuel = no taxes.  From where will these funds come when there's no fuel to tax?

Edited by RivNut (see edit history)

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I love my Riviera, the sound of the engine, the feeling of me controlling the ride and even the smell of not perfectly used gasoline.

But it isn’t sustainable... I would have preferred hydrogen for the future although electric cars seems to take over which I can live with (or rather watch from the other side of the grave). I would have bought a Tesla today if I was looking for a new car but that won’t happen. Look at the statistics, https://www.energy.gov/eere/vehicles/fact-962-january-30-2017-vehicles-capita-other-regionscountries-compared-united-states , twice the number of cars in the USA per capita today compared to 1963 and a lot more overall as the population has grown. Not to mention the rest of the world. There isn’t enough oil to sustain this.

Be glad that the electrical cars are taking over, it will hopefully lower the demands for oil and allowing us to continue to drive our beautiful dragons a little bit longer before they, and us, will be part of the past.

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1 hour ago, bob71GS said:

If they are so popular, why did GM phase out the Chevy Volt?

 

The Volt is a plug-in hybrid, not a pure electric.

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These debates rarely consider the advancement of much cleaner burning ICE fuels.

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Some of the connivers have to figure out a way to duplicate the income from gasoline taxes before anything can happen. Too much relies on the multiple taxes. Close to 20% of every gallon is budgeted and already spent.

708595056_April-18Fuel.JPG.8a5f42a2e0746590eba67b332db607ad.JPG

Can't kill the cash cow. And the utilities would be hard pressed to get it from rate payers.

 

One viable system would be an alternate power grid installed along interstate easements for vehicles interlocked to that grid only (computers can do that). A similar plan to the now invisible hydrogen cars. Whatever the changeover will be it has to maintain state and federal cash flow.

 

I am 70 and plan on another 30. And I have been paying attention to what goes on for a long time. When I want to peer into the future I look at business models or transportation practices in third world counties; a lot can be learned doing that. (Have you noticed computer kiosks in airports? High cost of capital items creates a demand for pay services).

 

The government put up a lot of poles and hung wires for rural phone service, rural broadband has been quiet for a couple of years, but it is not dead. And that could be part of the new transportation system. Keep your chip handy.

 

One last thought, don't look for these fabled "phase ins". Think about it. When have you seen anything happen with linearity.

 

Fun to watch for cynics.

Bernie

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For new cars, it'll happen pretty soon. 10yrs or so.  It'll be ugly on the other end, I'm not looking forward to it.

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It just came to me today but should have 10 years ago.  obama destroyed much of my life as it was but he brought about the electric cars also.  He developed the law for cars manufactures to produce 54 miles per gallon by 2025.  Manufactures know they cannot make this happen with gas and diesel and the only choice they have is electric. 

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                         Last I heard, Trump is working on changing this mileage requirement. Even if he fails to do so, people will just

quit buying new cars and drive their old ones if they don't want an electric car. I would never buy one....would rather drive a Model T Ford

than an electric car. I've driven my 69 GTO for 48 years already......it'll do another 30 years no problem. Another reason not to worry about it

is the world is going to end in 12 years anyway according to Ocasio Cerebral Cortex and Pocahontas.

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I worked in the off-shore oil and Gas industry for 30 years and I am amazed at how many predictions (past & present) I have read that the world is running out of oil.

In 1914 US government agency the Bureau of Mines predicted that the world oils supplies will be depleted in ten years.

In 1939 the US department of interior looked at the world’s oil reserves and predicted that global oil supplies will be fully depleted in 13 years.

In 1946 the US State Department predicted that the USA will be facing an oil shortage in less than 20 years.

In 1951 the Interior Department said the global oil reserves would be depleted within 13 years.

In 1972 the Club of Rome published Limits of Growth which predicted that the world would be out of oil & Gas before 1995.

In 1974 famous population scientists Paul Ehrlich predicted that within a quarter of a century mankind will run out of oil.

 

Reality Check.

In 1980 the world had about 700 billion barrels of proved reserves.

In 2018 global proven oil reserves is at 1.6 trillion barrels.

Most of the easy oil is known. (think Venezuela, Saudi, Canada) But

Innovation and advances in technologies allow oil and gas reservoirs that were once thought inaccessible to come into production. Unconventional drilling has dramatically increased US oil reserves. We will not be running out of Oil & Gas in our life times. 

Cheers

Tom Kunek

ROA3845

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Right on TK,

 

   IF you listened to ALL of the ney sayers we are ALL living on borrowed time. This is ALL BS.  They want us ALL to live in the city's so they can keep a closer eye on US. They drill this crap into peoples heads until they think it's true.

 

   I could go on for days, BUT then it will become political & this is a RIVIERA forum to share knowledge pertaining to our vehicles.

 

Tom T.

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The electric (plug-in) infrastructure that can support everyone on your street charging their cars overnight does not exist, and won't without a lot of investment (think ala the initial electrification) -- or installation of a parallel 'auto-only' grid to support the revenue stream as Bernie observed.  There will have to be a transition period, hence the opportunity to support both indefinitely if the all-electric solution doesn't take hold (or is not legislated as mandatory).

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On 6/6/2019 at 5:14 PM, RivNut said:

It was a Chevy Volt.  Need i say more?

 

Who isn't drooling to get their hands on something like a Tesla.  One shock to owners of electric cars will be imposed road taxes.  Most of  the revenues used to maintain and build roads and bridges comes from fuel taxes.  No fuel = no taxes.  From where will these funds come when there's no fuel to tax?

Ed, sharp on the tax angle. I’m not worried our government tax experts will find s way to tax electric cars. In my area I see m a n y Tesla cars. With only a 250 mile range before re charge you won’t see me buying and the $80,000 price tag I won’t spend on a damned car.

I won’t live to see the electric car for the masses, but I’m sure the electric car one day will,be the way to,go.

 

Turbinator

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Posted (edited)

Battery charged electric cars will just be a bridge technology or mainly used inner city for little distances.

Overland  travel will need the development of new technologies, like hydrogens.

I‘m scared that the environmental damage caused by exploring resources needed to build batteries will be much worse than the desasters Caused by sinking oil ships and leacky oil platforms. I will not like to think to much about the environmental pollution by old batteries or the recycling of millions of this batteries, which will reach end of life in only a few years.... there is no industry for that. Most likely this batteries will end up in China or somewhere else where nobody cares about environmental protection.

driving your 50 + year old Riviera is the best way to behave sustained. 

 

Frank

Edited by OldGerman (see edit history)

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1 hour ago, OldGerman said:

batteries will end up in China or somewhere else where nobody cares about environmental protection.

 

China has been rejecting recyclables for a few years now. They do take them because they want to make money. Contaminated recyclables are being shipped to them and they won't take it. Batteries would be the same.

When I was a kid I saw cars leave the junkyard with boulders inside for added weight. Junk radiators were saved for winter when they could be filled with water that froze overnight before the load went to the scrapper. Lithium, nickle, lead, and other battery materials will fall into the same cheating situation and rejection will decrease value to the point of paid illegal dumping as we do with tires today.

 

The population of the world doesn't care about pollution. Wanna see a joke? The next time you see one of those $1 cloth grocery bags leaving a store ask to see what is inside. You will find a bag full of products packaged in trash. Duh. And if you really want to get cynical, think about all the jobs the manufacture of packaging trash creates. Manufacture of all the stuff in the landfills represents a livelihood for the families of the workers whom made it.

 

We need another Renaissance , don't we. Of course you have to remember what happened before the last one and how the Renaissance got it's name.

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Don't know if it is apples and oranges,  but there have been gas and electric golf carts for years.......each has it's application.

All electric might become the norm in metropolitan areas where you only need 100 mile range (can you visualize all the charging station needed for an apartment complex)

Most experts think that the metropolitan areas will also be the domain of the self driving vehicles (which will also be electric)

There is a large area of the country that gas will be king..........in the plains states, all electric is not going to work unless they can get closer to a 200 mile range AND be able to

do 100% charging in 8 hours or less. 

If you live on the East coast,  you may not realize that the distance between towns in the plains is usually a long way,   so when the rancher need grocerys he may be driving 100 miles plus

to get supplies.......so far Amazon is not delivering bales of hay

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We need more innovators like Stan Ovshinski who pioneered an environmentally friendly NiMH battery. That technology eventually went to GM then Texaco.

In fact the documentary "Who Killed The Electric Car" is a must see on how business failed in that we could've had the technology 15 - 20 years ago!

https://www.amazon.com/Who-Killed-Electric-Martin-Sheen/dp/B000I5Y8FU/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1309216862&sr=8-1

John B.

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I was born in a town that made chemicals. Rumor was that it was about 10th on the russian bomb list, because of the rocket fuels being made there. It was illegal to swim in the river that ran down the middle of the city. Not because of some BS rule, but because anyone that spent a half hour in it became very sick from the chemicals being dumped. Not to mention the alerts on TV and radio telling everyone to go inside and close your windows because of some leak. After the new EPA laws took effect, the river cleaned up some, and the air was actually breathable. I've seen first hand how things improved.

 

I have a friend that spent most of their 60 years in Los Angeles. They said the change in air quality from the 70's is incredibly dramatic. I love cars, but I love clean air and water more. I'm not interested in dying from cancer just so some crazy rich company can have a larger profit margin. I welcome more emission laws, and electric cars.

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6 hours ago, jsgun said:

I was born in a town that made chemicals. Rumor was that it was about 10th on the russian bomb list, because of the rocket fuels being made there. It was illegal to swim in the river that ran down the middle of the city. Not because of some BS rule, but because anyone that spent a half hour in it became very sick from the chemicals being dumped. Not to mention the alerts on TV and radio telling everyone to go inside and close your windows because of some leak. After the new EPA laws took effect, the river cleaned up some, and the air was actually breathable. I've seen first hand how things improved.

 

I have a friend that spent most of their 60 years in Los Angeles. They said the change in air quality from the 70's is incredibly dramatic. I love cars, but I love clean air and water more. I'm not interested in dying from cancer just so some crazy rich company can have a larger profit margin. I welcome more emission laws, and electric cars.

Your friend is 100% right about l.a. I remember days in the 60's and 70's where the smog was so thick your eyes would burn and lungs would feel like you just smoked a carton of cigarettes. The only days there was no smog was after a rain storm or when the santa ana winds would blow, so most of the year we had very smoggy days.the upside was no one wanted to live here so property and rents were VERY AFFORDABLE. the downside was all the riff raff that moved in ( i nclude my family as part of the riff raff) .I live a few blocks from downtown l.a. And on a smoggy day you could not see the city hall which at the time was the tallest building in the city.This is how it looks now thanks to epa rules. Still not 100% clean but sooooo much better! 

image.jpeg

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Wow, that's an amazing picture! Compare that  to the pictures of downtown L.A. in the 1960's on the old Dragnet tv shows.

At the beginning of each episode they would show pics of the city completely shrouded in smog.

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