Is this a hobby better suited to be born into?

[mrcvs]

Nature vs nurture?

 

In several previous rants, I admit I have great trouble with keeping anything actually running and it's with great difficulty I get from point A to point B.  I am self taught, which means I haven't learned much.

 

It would have been better I think, had I grown up around this stuff, which is why I am struggling now.  I think it will be a problem in future generations, and so maybe I should just tell "my story" and go from there.

 

My grandfather could fix anything!  He had a '66 GTO he kept for many years, and I think he wanted me to keep it going.  But I didn't show much interest as I wanted really early.  There was an automotive elective in high school and, if you are college material, you are dissuaded from taking it.  Wish I had!

 

When I was interested in the GTO, finally, I was out of college.  Could not find a job locally.  Hence, moved distant, rental properties not conducive to working on cars...and moving them.  Now that I am pushing 50, at least I have my own property, although not ideal for cars.  But I struggle. Wish my grandfather was still around!  My father lives distant and is in frail health.

 

I see this scenario being problematic for younger generations.  Especially those with student loans and transient living arrangements.  I know enough about cars now as I should have at 12!

 

One of the many perils of a college degree.  Too much specialization does not allow for local employment and residential stability long term, and the ability to pursue, and get good at, such hobbies young.

 

Unless you pursue a trade.  Go into less debt and reside locally.  Of course, this was discouraged by high school administrators for obvious reasons.

 

A very real situation for the up and coming.

[poci1957]

Hello mrcvs, your observations are a real issue IMO.  Of course like anything they can be overcome if one is really enthusiastic but it is a hill to climb as you point out. 

[zepher]

@mrcvs brings up a good point about school administrators pushing college as the only viable career path.

The US is seriously lacking in skilled tradesmen.

The trades should be encouraged as a career path every bit as much as college is.

Mike Rowe started the show Dirty Jobs because he saw that society has been pushing college as the only viable career option and how society as a whole tends to look down on those in the skilled trades.

I was lucky enough to grow up around pre-war cars so I learned about how they run, what it takes to maintain them and to have respect for them as little pieces of history.

My father was decent at working on them since he grew up on a small, family farm where you had to repair most things yourself.

But even after he had earned a Master's Degree, his fondness for antique cars always stuck with him.

I guess he passed that same trait onto me, since I have never lost my love of antique cars, despite being educated and working as a network/server administrator.

 

The old car world is changing and those of us still young enough need to encourage the next generation to develop a love for our rolling pieces of art/history.

Let's face it, none of us are getting any younger and someone will need to take care of our cars when we're gone.

[1912Staver]

Absolutely this is a hobby best born into.  The marshalling of resources needed to wholly participate either requires a great deal of time and not a small amount of cash , or a rather staggering sum of cash. Spreading the cost and effort over two or three generation's is an immense advantage.

 As well , this is a hobby based in many cases on relationships with other participants. Many of the best deals from a variety of points of view and factors take place quietly between people known to each other. As long as your parents and grandparents were people well liked and respected in the hobby , doors will open as if by magic. 

 For the rest of us, going it alone is a formidable task. Suitable land and structure are the first and probably largest obstacle. The cars themselves are generally miniscule in cost compared to real estate and shop structures. If you have a parents or grandparents shop available from a young age it is a tremendous boost to a young person.

 Then comes tools and equipment, general mechanics knowledge, specialized vintage car knowledge. Networking with other owners in your local area, networking with other owners worldwide. And so on. 

 A single lifetime, starting from scratch is only barely adequate. And for true success more than a small measure of luck and opportune  timing will also come in handy.

 

Greg in Canada

 

 

Edited June 4, 2019 by 1912Staver (see edit history)

[mrcvs]

Wow, and I thought my thread could be considered a bit "far fetched".  Most seem to agree with me!

 

Zepher, I went to college beginning in 1988.  That was really pushed in the mid-'80's, and, maybe then, it made sense.  I don't know about now, but they certainly shouldn't be pushing college.  It costs about 3 to 5 times what it did when I went and wages have gone nowhere in a generation.  Most college jobs are good for paper pushing.  The reality is, folks will always need stuff fixed, and having the ability to do so allows you to work virtually anywhere and get Union wages, too.

[1912Staver]

30 minutes ago, zepher said:

@mrcvs brings up a good point about school administrators pushing college as the only viable career path.

The US is seriously lacking in skilled tradesmen.

The trades should be encouraged as a career path every bit as much as college is.

Mike Rowe started the show Dirty Jobs because he saw that society has been pushing college as the only viable career option and how society as a whole tends to look down on those in the skilled trades.

I was lucky enough to grow up around pre-war cars so I learned about how they run, what it takes to maintain them and to have respect for them as little pieces of history.

My father was decent at working on them since he grew up on a small, family farm where you had to repair most things yourself.

But even after he had earned a Master's Degree, his fondness for antique cars always stuck with him.

I guess he passed that same trait onto me, since I have never lost my love of antique cars, despite being educated and working as a network/server administrator.

 

The old car world is changing and those of us still young enough need to encourage the next generation to develop a love for our rolling pieces of art/history.

Let's face it, none of us are getting any younger and someone will need to take care of our cars when we're gone.

 

Personally I am qualified as a automotive journeyman mechanic, High School technology education Teacher and Marine Engineer.  Several years post secondary training and well over 30 years on the job working with my hands and mind every day. 

 The only thing that has changed from my prospective over the last 40 years of hobby involvement is the cost vs what middle class people earn. When I first became involved 40 years ago the cost was modest enough that I had a very inclusive and rewarding hobby. Cars that genuinely interested me were within my financial reach. Fast forward 40 years and although my qualifications progressed upward ; and my career related duties increased many times over in responsibility and complexity, my remuneration increased at a much slower rate. And the cost of the hobby skyrocketed.

Greg in Canada

[MCHinson]

I was not born into the hobby, but one of my older brother's ran a lawn mower repair business and I worked for him when I was young. I have a high school education. I graduated in 1979. I did not take any shop classes or anything similar. I wish I had. I am a retired Police Lieutenant. I have been involved in the hobby since 1996. I have learned a lot from fellow club members. I have learned a bunch through reading. I have learned a bunch through this forum. I have learned a bunch through doing. A lot of trial and error over the years make you pretty good at this type of work. Get the books, read them all, research online, watch videos online (which is now a much easier way to learn a lot of things), take good digital photos as you disassemble components. Figure out how it works, or why it does not, repair it and reassemble it using your photos when you have questions about how something goes together. Over time, you will become one of the old guys who teaches the next generation. 

 

My first antique car was a Model A Ford. I bought that because it was simple and lots of information was readily available about it. Buying an earlier or more obscure car is a mistake for the average new hobbyist. What I learned on Model A Ford's has allowed me to help others work on cars as diverse as a 1923 Buick, a 1937 Ford, and a 1968 Cadillac. I now do about anthing that is need on my 1937 Buick Century and the knowledge learned over the years is allowing me to now restore a 1938 Buick Century. 

 

 

[poci1957]

Excellent points from Greg in Canada.  In my area the roots of the old car hobby (also racing and other car activities) were the blue collar middle class guys of the 1960s and 1970s.  Their situation usually included:

 

A stable job with some disposable income and leisure time

A farm or ranch house on a spacious lot with room for a detached garage or shop

Mechanical experience/ability and a collection of tools, often second generation as Greg noted. 

 

At 51 I am about the same age as mrcvs and anyone younger than we are much less likely to have the above as part of our lifestyle, especially if you live in a high cost metro area rather than a small town.  Greg in Canada mentions cost vs income as a concern and it is.

 

HOWEVER with that said I will throw in a bit of real optimism.  It is indeed true that restoration costs are out of reach for most middle class families now.  BUT that is only a problem for a full restoration project.  If you can enjoy and drive a car and that does not need to be disassembled, painted and restored your cost can be quite reasonable.  A fun collector car can easily be purchased for under $10,000 and best of all it can be serviced and freshened as your skills allow and not require years to restore.  It just won’t be a Hemi Cuda or 1957 Chevy convertible; it will more likely be a Valiant or 1975 Chevy.  Adjusted for inflation even some “icon” cars like Model As and 1955-57 Thunderbirds are cheaper than they were 20 years ago.       

 

Also with the internet providing forums like this, YouTube, EBay and the other services we did not have in the 1980s much how-to information is easier to access.  Many basic tools are cheaper than they used to be and easier to find too, and many parts are easier to source too.  An amateur hobbyist can enjoy servicing and maintaining an old car in a suburban garage if they really want to, they just can’t afford to buy a project and restore it from the ground up.  And they must exercise judgement and patience in selecting the right car to avoid a money pit.  That impatience is the real problem with most amateur efforts; be thoughtful and you can enjoy the hobby for middle class money, you don't have to be a mechanic, you just have to be smart and careful, Todd C      

[John_S_in_Penna]

"Is this a hobby better suited to be born into?"

 

No, you don't have to be!  I am the car fan in my family,

and I became so without needing any encouragement.

My father was just an onlooker.  I took HIM to car shows!

[Gunsmoke]

I'm afraid MRCVS that you may have bitten off more than all of us can chew. As a starter, current research studies generally conclude that normal human development ultimately evolves from about a 50/50 split between nature and nurture. Our individual DNA contributes to our strengths or weaknesses, and our social/familial environment does as well. So when it comes to a singular interest like "working on or liking old cars", lets assume it is a 50/50 thing.

 

People in my experience who participate are firstly typically "hands-on" types, those who love to use their hands to do things, same types who like to build stuff, take stuff apart, and have an inherent mix of curosity and patience, and also like history. Much of that comes from your DNA. Secondly many come from familial or social situations where there were role models or others who did similar work and they "caught the bug" from watching with "natural amazement" as a mentor accomplished something most people could not. 

 

In my own example, I was always a curious and hands-on type from early childhood (building models, making puzzles, taking things apart). Did well in school, university, etc, but always had an interest in old cars? Why? Well my Dad was a mechanic and for many years I watched or was aware of his interest in cars and his ability to make them run (but he was not interested in owning a very old car). During the 1950's and 60', that appeared to me to be a task anyone with patience and hands-on skills could do. 

 

While I tinkered with my cars all along during my working career (change the oil, fix small stuff etc), I did not have the time to get into the old car hobby until I retired in 2007. In the past 10 years I have restored one car and am in the middle of another. 

 

I suspect every member of AACA has a unique personal story about how they arrived where we all are. While their sense of the mix of nature/nurture may not be 50/50, on balance I would expect the aggregate of all life stories will end there. Yes, financial freedom may make it easier for some, but I know people who never had a "pot to @#%$ in or window to through it through", who  got involved in old cars at 16 or 17 and have made a lifetime hobby of it. And I know wealthy buggers who started in their 40's who are more passionate about the hobby than anyone. 

 

So my advice MRCVS is to not spend too much time trying to connect dots that are at best likely to be unconnectable. Why you or anyone else has arrived just where you are today is a mix of many many factors, and deciding which 1 or 2 has had the most impact is likely a fools game. ENJOY

[1912Staver]

5 hours ago, zepher said:

@mrcvs brings up a good point about school administrators pushing college as the only viable career path.

The US is seriously lacking in skilled tradesmen.

The trades should be encouraged as a career path every bit as much as college is.

Mike Rowe started the show Dirty Jobs because he saw that society has been pushing college as the only viable career option and how society as a whole tends to look down on those in the skilled trades.

I was lucky enough to grow up around pre-war cars so I learned about how they run, what it takes to maintain them and to have respect for them as little pieces of history.

My father was decent at working on them since he grew up on a small, family farm where you had to repair most things yourself.

But even after he had earned a Master's Degree, his fondness for antique cars always stuck with him.

I guess he passed that same trait onto me, since I have never lost my love of antique cars, despite being educated and working as a network/server administrator.

 

The old car world is changing and those of us still young enough need to encourage the next generation to develop a love for our rolling pieces of art/history.

Let's face it, none of us are getting any younger and someone will need to take care of our cars when we're gone.

 

 

I can perhaps also comment on why trades are a dead end as far as the old car hobby is concerned. It's because the pay isn't high enough.

 When I was young in the later 1970's and early 1980's a trades income was high enough that many very nice cars were in reach. 

 A good friend dabbled in Maserati 3500's, same general income as myself. The cars were a pain for someone without a good handle on mechanics to own, same for Jag E types.

 Many were owned by mechanics and other people in the car trade.

The shop foreman at one of the places I worked had a quite nice Aston Martin DB4. It was his hobby car, bought from a previous owner that had ran out of patience with a aging British car that was difficult to find parts for. Another person I knew in the British car game and bought and sold parts with had a rough D type Jag. Just a spare time project hobby car. And no he was not a multi -millionaire like you would need to be today to own one, just a hobbyist.  No need for a lottery win or substantial inheritance ! Just decide on what you liked , buy one, bring it back to reliable running condition.

 

No tradesman today is in the sort of income bracket to own cars of these sorts.

 

Young people smart enough and with a good enough work ethic to be a successful tradesman and ultimately shop foreman these days have the ability to enter careers that pay much more than the trades.

 Finance and Business careers pay much more and don't require Supermen. Just Smart , personable, hard working people. The same requirements as a trade career. But a much more happy payday.

 

Greg in Canada

 

 

Edited June 5, 2019 by 1912Staver (see edit history)

[Gunsmoke]

1912 Staver, we need to be careful not to compare careers with hobbies. Just what type of work/career might at the moment be more financially rewarding does not mean it will be something a person can develop a passion for. A passion for most people is something they draw a great deal of personal satisfaction from. Some business career people may love their work, but I suspect most don't. Same for mechanics, some likely love their work while for others it's just a job. So career and hobby are not usually connected. While there are a few lucky golfers who can do it for a living, for most it is just as a hobby. So as I have said earlier, let's not spin our wheels trying to connect things that don't connect.

 

One thing I will agree on is that the new generation coming along who have a new body of passion (for video games, electronics, Artificial intelligence, instant gratification, etc) may never find themselves in the social environnment or have the patience where the "old car hobby" will rub off on them. Their loss! 

[TerryB]

My early introduction to autos and auto repair was by my father who did as much as he could out of necessity, he had very limited income.  We had to try and fix it ourselves as there was not money to give to a shop unless it was the last resort.  He always had to fix his car as even his “new” cars were well used when he got them.  I was fascinated with mechanical things as a young person.  Model car kits, fixing my own bike, watching others fix mechanical stuff intrigued me which eventually got me reading and doing as much as I could on my own using dad’s tools until I could get my own.  I even worked a evenings at a gas station, just doing simple stuff like tire mounting and cleaning up some parts and stocking shelves along with the usual full service attendant stuff at the pumps.  My school grades were good so my parents and extended family decided I should go to college, the first on either side to do so.  

 

To afford college I went to a local school in driving rage of home.  My autos to use for school were like dad’s, all well used that I needed to keep repaired on a shoestring budget.  Learning car repair was a necessity so I could make it to school on time.  My studies, electrical and electronic engineering were chosen so that I had a chance to get a job when I graduated.  Together with my self taught mechanical skills I was able to get a decent job that combined both interest and kept me working steady for nearly 40 years.  For nearly 20 of those years I competed in off road motorcycle competition which allowed me to continue to use mechanical skills as well as some electrical/ electronic repair.  Eventually my body needed a break from motorcycle competition and my interests in antique cars sent me in that direction.  I continued to ride motorcycles and have old cars and eventually some old motorcycles to tinker with in the garage.  

 

I guess there is some internal drive I have to work on mechanical stuff that is natural to me.  Can’t explain why but it was always there and continues to be so.  Unfortunately my mechanical involvement is greatly curtailed these days buy I still try to do something to feed the need.

Edited June 5, 2019 by TerryB (see edit history)

[JV Puleo]

Is the hobby "best born into"? What, exactly, isn't.

Do you think film stars who's parents were film stars got their early breaks entirely on their own?

How about the politicians whose fathers were politicians... or, for that matter, the University Professors who come from academic families or doctors who's parents were doctors?

The fact is, it is always easier to do something if you come from a background where it is commonly done.

I have a number of interests I've pursued through my life. I shared NONE of them with anyone else in my family or, for that matter, with 98% of my friends. The friends I had that did share my interests were ones I made myself. In my mind, it's a moot point.

 

If anything is hurting the advancement of this hobby, I'd say it's the endless emphasis on "investment". Unless you like them, cars are a stupid thing to spend your money on – they need constant maintenance and they deteriorate all on their own. A large part of the their value (and I use that term guardedly) is dictated by fashion and nothing is more ephemeral than fashion.

 

As to fixing them - that can be learned as well. It takes time and energy and the willingness to do things wrong and then do them again until you get it right. One of my friends - and extremely good mechanic and (now retired) teacher once told me that the problem with most mechanics is that they don't really know how things work so they can't fix them.

Edited June 5, 2019 by JV Puleo (see edit history)

[JV Puleo]

3 hours ago, John_S_in_Penna said:

My father was just an onlooker.  I took HIM to car shows!

 

Mine too, but he'd have been bored to death by a car show.

[keiser31]

My Dad worked for Chrysler Corporation when I was born. He took us to lots of shows, including the Chrysler promotional, first glance shows. My favorite show was the "Old Car Festival" at Greenfield Village. We attended a LOT of years. I still have programs from there that I got as a kid. There is also a photo in a book that I have of my brother and myself leaning on the fence looking at the cars. We were about 7 years old, maybe. Dad also took us to Mount Clemens Racetrack in Michigan. I used to street race, but stock car racing and old cars are my things. Those things never took for my brother and three sisters. We are standing behind the man in the photo. I remember those suspenders. THANKS, DAD!!

[1912Staver]

1 hour ago, Gunsmoke said:

1912 Staver, we need to be careful not to compare careers with hobbies. Just what type of work/career might at the moment be more financially rewarding does not mean it will be something a person can develop a passion for. A passion for most people is something they draw a great deal of personal satisfaction from. Some business career people may love their work, but I suspect most don't. Same for mechanics, some likely love their work while for others it's just a job. So career and hobby are not usually connected. While there are a few lucky golfers who can do it for a living, for most it is just as a hobby. So as I have said earlier, let's not spin our wheels trying to connect things that don't connect.

 

One thing I will agree on is that the new generation coming along who have a new body of passion (for video games, electronics, Artificial intelligence, instant gratification, etc) may never find themselves in the social environnment or have the patience where the "old car hobby" will rub off on them. Their loss! 

 

Regardless of if you connect with your career or not, if your pay packet is not fat enough you are going nowhere fast in todays old car hobby.

As my late father was prone to observe, if I had spent 1/2 as much time focusing on making money as I spent immersing myself in old cars things would have gone so much better in my life.

 The connection between the rewards of your career and the old car hobby are one of the strongest I have encountered in my 40 years of hobby car involvement. Of course some people are born to money and don't have to worry about  the relationship between their career and their hobby . But most do.

 

Greg in Canada

[JamesR]

4 hours ago, mrcvs said:

Wow, and I thought my thread could be considered a bit "far fetched".  Most seem to agree with me!

 

Zepher, I went to college beginning in 1988.  That was really pushed in the mid-'80's, and, maybe then, it made sense.  I don't know about now, but they certainly shouldn't be pushing college.

 

No, this is one of the better comments I've read. The AACA forum is one of the best forums I've found for encouraging people of all skill levels and ages, and women, too. In doing so, it builds a strong sense of community.

 

There are a lot of us out there who are limited by resources or experience or age. I can't ever hope to own anything approaching a show car - can't justify the expense of that type of a restoration or the cost of the equipment. Still, I like seeing the driver level cars I own become more presentable through refurbishment that I do myself or pay others to do at a "driver quality" level.  I'm able to do things with old cars that I couldn't afford to do or didn't have the time or experience to do with the cool cars I owned when I was 17. Part of it was my Dad discouraging interest in cars among his sons out of fear they'd become hoodlums or something. He thought it was too working class.

 

IMO, one area of old car ownership that's great for people (like me) who don't have car lifts, rotisseries or spray booths in their garage is the "survivor" class of car (using the term broadly.) Thirteen years ago I bought a very original early 60's FoMoCo vehicle for $2100 that had  low mileage, no rust through and almost no surface rust on the body. As soon as it was running good and I cleaned it up it was appreciated by others, and that has only increased as time as gone on. Since the emphasis is on maintenance, not rebuilding, there's no need for equipment or decades of experience with spray equipment and such. Still, it's always cool when you can stretch yourself.

 

Unfortunately, I've seen asking prices for old cars from the "vintage" era (for the lack of a better term) go way too high in the last few years. I find it weird that you can find a decent looking and running 15 year old Mercedes or Jag sedan for the same price that would only get you a non-running rusty Chevy or Ford truck from the 50's or 60's. What a shame! We used to pay $300 for those trucks!

Edited June 5, 2019 by JamesR (see edit history)

[zepher]

4 hours ago, 1912Staver said:

 

 

I can perhaps also comment on why trades are a dead end as far as the old car hobby is concerned. It's because the pay isn't high enough.

 When I was young in the later 1970's and early 1980's a trades income was high enough that many very nice cars were in reach. 

 A good friend dabbled in Maserati 3500's, same general income as myself. The cars were a pain for someone without a good handle on mechanics to own, same for Jag E types.

 Many were owned by mechanics and other people in the car trade.

The shop foreman at one of the places I worked had a quite nice Aston Martin DB4. It was his hobby car, bought from a previous owner that had ran out of patience with a aging British car that was difficult to find parts for. Another person I knew in the British car game and bought and sold parts with had a rough D type Jag. Just a spare time project hobby car. And no he was not a multi -millionaire like you would need to be today to own one, just a hobbyist.  No need for a lottery win or substantial inheritance ! Just decide on what you liked , buy one, bring it back to reliable running condition.

 

No tradesman today is in the sort of income bracket to own cars of these sorts.

 

Young people smart enough and with a good enough work ethic to be a successful tradesman and ultimately shop foreman these days have the ability to enter careers that pay much more than the trades.

 Finance and Business careers pay much more and don't require Supermen. Just Smart , personable, hard working people. The same requirements as a trade career. But a much more happy payday.

 

Greg in Canada

 

 

 

Your observations about income vs hobby cars are the same things that have been said about most careers.

You can't be a regular 9 to 5 guy and afford an Aston Martin, even with a college degree.

The car hobby is changing and when groups of cars move out of reach of the average hobbyist then other cars will fill the void.

The hobby will die if people leave the hobby all together because certain cars are priced out of reach rather than seek out other cars to replace those cars.

It would be foolish to give up on the hobby all together simply because certain cars are no longer affordable.

I can see Japanese cars becoming more popular as pre-war and muscle cars become more and more expensive.

 

[keithb7]

I guess it depends what your goals are. At this point I have  little interest in a Concours showing. I just like wrenching. My father barely knew where to put oil and gas. My brother and I were into cars. We both still are. We sorta developed on our own.  Originally we had to wrench and fix  our junk cars out of necessity. Later in life we are still at it because we want to be.  My Brother owns a 60’s American, 70’s and 80’s European cars. I like early 50’s and older Mopars.  We both attended trade school. Not in the automotive trade but heavy equipment. I took shop classes in high school. Neither of us inherited a dime nor property. We busted our butts to carve out a home and garage that works for us. No lifts. No paint booths. No mig welders (yet). I’m 48 and figure I got many good years left. I read and research a ton. I roll up my sleeves and do what I need to, to keep my old cars reliable and appealing. I set my sites on achievable goals. A Duesenburg at Pebble is not in the cards for me. 

 

Sure I’d love a detached shop with a hoist. I want one bad. Common sense tells my retirement is not too far away. Might be better to save that $100K so I can more comfortably retire. The double car garage I own now is adequate. I’ll make it work. I’ll still be having fun out cruising. Bonding with my cars knowing every nut and bolt intimately. 

 

No nuturing here. No hand outs. No using Dad’s tools or his garage. No coaching. Just will and determination. 

[1912Staver]

My goal is to be in a position where I don't have to significantly downwardly revise my goal every decade or so. It's a frustrating hobby indeed where as a 20 year old I could have bought a down at the heals DBS , Vantage no less for $3500.00 while making $10.00 / hr. 350 hours of work , at todays price and income I would have to spend over 3000 hours worth of work.

Just before I retired in September I would have been hard pressed to scrape up the cash for a VW Bug convert. What is wrong with this situation ?

Please don't read this and take the impression I am just a spoiled child that is crying about his favorite toy being taken away. The only reason I mention things like Aston Martin's is that the details stand out in my mind and they provide hard numbers to illustrate the concept I am putting forward. I personally gave up on the fantasy of Aston ownership many years ago.

These days a very simple 1950's Lotus is my dream car. 7 or 11 ,either is my ideal car. In both cases an original is out of reach. However they are extremely simple cars and full drawings are readily available. I just have to build myself a replica. Lots of time, little outlay. A good match to my circumstance.

 

Greg in Canada

Edited June 5, 2019 by 1912Staver (see edit history)

[zepher]

Although I grew up around antique cars, I did not inherit a large garage or acres of property.

Ninety nine percent of the tools I own I have acquired myself over the years.

I did inherit a love for the cars and for maintaining them while my siblings didn't get that gene.

That was the reason I ended up with my Dad's Rickenbacker and my Grandfather's Pierce Arrow.

But I also showed an interest in the cars long before I could even drive them and that meant that I was always right there helping to tinker with them and maintain them.

I was always fascinated with the cars, the elegant wood trim in the interiors, the long swooping fenders, the smell of gas and oil.

The simple elegance of the cars has always fascinated me and caused me to wonder what life was like when they were new.

A time when craftsmen took pride in their work, when cars were more than just an appliance.

A time when cars were equal parts art and transportation.

[cahartley]

I was born into a machine/welding shop family and was the 3rd generation owner as I have "the knack".

Just because I was born into the business doesn't mean my grandfather, father and I shared the same outside interests.

Some yes, mostly no.

I've had many hobbies and collecting interests.

My "problem" is when I take a real interest in something I'm in head over heals.

I truly hope I'm in my last phase.......after I FINALLY indulged my car affliction at age 57 I can't afford any more hobbies........ 😬

I lost my grandfather when I was in the 5th grade but my dad and I shared few common hobbies though he never discouraged any of my endeavors and often took a "sneaky" interest in my old tractor hobby.

Granted things like fishing, sports, camping, hunting and the like run in some families but in others not so I don't think it's either nature or nurture 

Trying to nurture an interest in something where there is no interest is useless........like the sports parents who rag on their kids to excel to THEIR satisfaction whether their kids like it or not........ 🤬

Nurturing an already obvious interest is something else altogether.

 

 

 

 

 

[1935Packard]

I'm in my 40s, and my sense is that most of the people my age in this hobby, at least that I meet, were born into it one way or another.  Maybe someone in their family had an old car, or maybe someone in their family had auto repair skills that they passed on.  Or ideally, both.  But I think it definitely helps, both to make the old car hobby seem like a doable hobby and to give people a leg up on how to go about it.

 

This is particularly common in the Packard Club, I've found.  It seems like the majority of Packard Club members under 50 inherited or bought Packards that their family had earlier owned.  It's not true of everyone, of course.  Maybe around a third of the younger members just happen to like Packards.  But I would guess that 2/3 or so of the younger members have a family Packard connection.
 

 

 

 

Edited June 5, 2019 by 1935Packard (see edit history)

[nick8086]

I was born in to a car collector..  We did not inherit all his stuff around 150 cars..  He sold and donated most of them..

 

He  gave a few car to my kids but did not set up how to fund it.. He did a life estate with his wife.. She could sell them and gift the money to the church.. My kid would not get anything.. 

 

I did a will to keep this from happening..  I did a life estate also.. but add a clause to keep the cars for my kids..

 

Over the last 26 year I filled the house up with gasoline smell maybe 3 times.. I know my wife would just fire sell the stuff..

 

I gave the cars and parts to my kids.. I funded it. and they do not have to remove it on any property. own by my wife..

 

 

[Gary_Ash]

I'm with Gunsmoke (see posts above) on people who develop an interest early in their lives, i.e. childhood.  When my daughters were little and had a group of friends over to play on a rainy day, I could throw a pile of colored paper, string, glue, popsicle sticks, and crayons on the floor.  Some of the kids would dig in and make stuff happily, others would stare at the ceiling or just annoy each other.  I thought I could tell the budding engineers from the others.  The hands-on kids went on to ride and fix their own bikes, eventually took an interest in cars.  

 

My father wasn't into mechanical stuff, but my next door neighbor was an old guy who had been head of an engineering department at Johns Hopkins Univ.  He owned a big wooden sailboat, was always fixing something in his garage.  He told me frankly, "Son, nothing is ever going to work right if you don't cuss at it!" - and he did, quite loudly at times.  I played with taking apart old watches, fixing lawnmowers, building go-karts, and eventually at 17 acquiring a 1950 Ford convertible for $50 in 1961.  It took a lot of fixing - and cussing - to keep it going, but it was all low budget stuff.  It got painted with a case of spray cans.  As the years went by, I bought more tools and learned more skills.  Going to an engineering high school  and taking engineering in college helped me a lot.  Fifty years of engineering work on mechanical and electrical stuff provided many learning experiences.  A succession of interesting cars came and went, none really expensive or show quality.  But, it wan't until my daughters got out of college and married, that I had the time and money to seriously pursue old cars.   Since then, I've completely restored two cars, have a third one making very slow progress, and I'm working hard on building a replica of a 1932 Studebaker Indy car from scratch.  Since the age of 50, I've learned welding, machining, aluminum body fabrication, transmission rebuilding, and lots of other things.  I've also learned when to pay good people to do work that I can't or shouldn't.  As others have said, you have to keep at it, be willing to fail and try again, and love what you are doing.  At 75, I'm a pretty competent mechanic and fabricator, and know how to do project management.  There is an old Pennsylvania Dutch saying: "We get too soon old and too late smart."  Start early!

[kfle]

Well of course its an advantage to be born into just about anything.  If you grow up learning something, then it gives you a huge boost.  This doesn't mean you can't start something up later in life though.   I am in my 40's and I just got into the old car hobby 2.5 years ago.  I didn't grow up around cars, didn't know anyone who was in the car hobby, nothing.  Just saw a 31 Model A Roadster somewhere, fell in love with it and made an impulse buy.  It has been a learning and fun journey ever since with mistakes made, friends made, and getting even more addicted to this hobby.  Now my 18 year old son is hooked and enjoying every minute of it too!

Edited June 5, 2019 by kfle (see edit history)

[Paul Dobbin]

Interesting thread, we all got here differently.   My father was a PhD. But was also a big do it yourselfer but to being born before the Depression and growing up during it.  He built our home, he liked used cars, especially old Cadillac’s- 1947-1958.   He taught me to drive on my 12^th birthday, which was a highly anticipated event.  My brother who was two years older bought a 1942 Harley Davidson 45 police bike when he turned 13.  The $75.00 price was shared 50/50 with Dad, with one condition.  John had to restore it before he rode it, which proved to be a wise idea later when he was able to ride it,  Sweat equity make careful riders.

When turned 13, I did the same.  By the time I was riding mine, I was head over heal in love with a Model A Fordor.  I couldn’t sell my Zundapp motorcycle and traded it for a boat & motor which after it was restored provided cash for a car, but the Model A was gone.  Then my brother and I teamed up on a few builds before the Air Force got me.  In the Air Force the bases had hobby ships where I could use their tools and other expertise to redo various rides during my 4 ½ years a Photo Interpreter  for air target charts.  It was I those hobby shops where I learned that if you want to know how to do something, ask someone who knows.  Good advice for a life of old cars.

Now 112 cars and 3 degrees later, I’m retired and still enjoying playing with cars and all the interesting people we’ve met with 46 years in the AACA and our local clubs.  We have a golf cart for farm use, but no golf clubs or Country Clubs or regrets.  I even flipped cars during my college years for transportation & profit.

It might have been more interesting to born into the hobby, maybe I’d be more into Cadillac’s than Fords, but that’s fine too.

[John348]

Is this a hobby better suited to be born into?

 

It is an impossible question to give an answer. I was born into the hobby, but I don't know any other way (not by choice) and those who were not don't know any other way. The old slogan is the grass always looks greener next door might apply here. My three sons were born into it, two have ZERO interest at all, one sort of but not really. 

While I grew up in the hobby, my father was not much of a mechanic, but he tried. I did most of the repairs on his cars as an early teenager. Some people can read a manual and understand it, others read it and are more confused after reading it, so it all depends on each individual. I feel I am pretty good mechanic (or so I have been told) and do everything but paint,  but I was born with mechanical skills and things just came easy to me, ended up working 40 years as an electrician which I found to be a boring way to make very good living. 

Edited June 5, 2019 by John348 (see edit history)

[TexRiv_63]

Very interesting discussion. I am 70 years old, never took any shop classes, never worked at any job involving automobiles, hate most "do-it-yourself" projects, and have definitely never been financially well to do. And yet I have always been interested - no, make that obsessed - with cars, have owned hundreds, worked on them all myself, and have done just about everything from paint to engine rebuilds. I do give credit to my father who was a big do-it-yourselfer out of depression era necessity. In the early 60s he overhauled the engine on our 55 Ford lying on his back in our gravel driveway and I was amazed at the positive results. It was like a switch turned on and I was hooked for the rest of my life. I was very lucky that both my parents and my wife accepted and supported my "hobby". I usually had only one hobby car at a time and never siphoned funds from the household to work on them, and that is still true today. I had to make many of the life choices that the OP and others have run into but I have always been able to keep car work in the picture in some way due to its critical importance to me.

[padgett]

I agree it is something best born into. Most of my family viewed being a gearhead as not politically correct so had to learn all on my own & am still learning.

 

For that matter when I attended GMI being a gearhead was not a plus was even not welcome in the Firebirds (GMI car club) because of my nutty  and not corporate correct ideas on how engines should be designed (like how to meet emissions standards without EGR or a catalytic converter - 67 FI 327 Camaro that got 25 mpg on the Interstate, met 75 standards in 1972 and won autocrosses).

 

That said I got into computers early for one main reason: am a Floridian and computers needed air conditioning. Happiness is that can now combine both hobbies.

[JamesR]

1 hour ago, TexRiv_63 said:

 In the early 60s he overhauled the engine on our 55 Ford lying on his back in our gravel driveway and I was amazed at the positive results.

 

I'm curious about this. Did he rebuild the engine with the block still mounted in the car? I ask because my '54 Ford shop manual has a method for replacing the crank bearings without removing the engine, and while it warns of some drawbacks of doing this, it was apparently an accepted method of rebuilding an engine that isn't too damaged or worn. With the heads removed I guess you could get the pistons out, and hone the cylinders instead of reboring them.  A real advantage for folks without an engine hoist, but awkward.

 

1912Staver said:
 

Quote

It's a frustrating hobby indeed where as a 20 year old I could have bought a down at the heals DBS , Vantage no less for $3500.00 while making $10.00 / hr. 350 hours of work , at today's price and income I would have to spend over 3000 hours worth of work.

 

Probably 30 or more years ago or more, I remember hearing several loud gunshot-like reports and I turned around to see a very poor condition Ferrari (Dino, I think) coming down the street. It was backfiring horribly, had some rust, dents and was missing some paint. The guy driving it looked to be of the same financial means that I was. It was an unusual scenario, but I probably could've afforded a car like that...back then. I'm guessing that car in that condition would be $100,000 today. Or close to it.

[TexRiv_63]

29 minutes ago, JamesR said:

 

I'm curious about this. Did he rebuild the engine with the block still mounted in the car? I ask because my '54 Ford shop manual has a method for replacing the crank bearings without removing the engine, and while it warns of some drawbacks of doing this, it was apparently an accepted method of rebuilding an engine that isn't too damaged or worn. With the heads removed I guess you could get the pistons out, and hone the cylinders instead of reboring them.  A real advantage for folks without an engine hoist, but awkward.

 

It was a ring and valve job only so the block stayed in the car. Getting the pan off and pistons/rods out was not easy due to the crossmember. Dad took the heads to a machine shop for the valve work, the machinist came to the house and mic'd the cylinders then advised how to proceed. We had bought a ridge reamer to get the pistons out (I still have it) then we rented a hone and cleaned up the bores with a hand drill. We used oversized rings and possibly knurled pistons which you don't hear much about today but that car ran great for another 5 years. I had to replace the bearings myself a couple years later due to a failed oil pump driveshaft but I pulled the engine for that. Here are some pictures of my Dad and the original job, check out the bumper jack and "cardboard creeper":

[JamesR]

Thanks for posting the great pics! So cool that your family would chronicle the event with a couple of photos.

[mike6024]

Mechanics is better learned young, just as learning a foreign language is much easier for children than older adults. Disassembling and rebuilding and engine is something teenagers should be exposed to, so they see how to use a torque wrench, calipers, micrometer, and see the pistons, rings, main and rod bearings.

 

Most I did as a teenager was overhaul the top end of my two stroke single cylinder motorcycle. Replaced the piston and rings, and fit those into the bored cylinder. I got some exposure, but not much, early on.

 

Parents took cars to the shop for most work. But they both were busy working full time.

 

[1912Staver]

A good illustration of a three generation ; actually now four as my friends mid 20's son is now involved as well, is that of one of my best automotive friends. Sadly recently deceased at the far too young age of 65 from cancer.

 I met him at work, an engineer like myself and it did not take long to discover he shared my interest in old machines. His main thing was stationary engines { hit and miss } and model T Fords. As I got to know him better I was amazed to hear his father was at about the 80 % stage of a Duesenberg J restoration, and there was also his grandfathers Cord roadster still in his fathers ownership.

 Ultimately the Cord was sold by his father in order to fund some of the more costly parts of the restoration that had to be farmed out. However the Duesenberg was eventually completed and upon his fathers death inherited jointly by my friend and his brother.

 Unfortunately the car had to ultimately be sold as the brother wanted the money for retirement. My friend could not possibly afford to buy his brothers 1/2 out and had to agree to the sale. My friend more than once told me that he would have preferred that the Cord stayed in family ownership and made some efforts to reacquire it from the person it was sold to.  The Cord owner eventually decided he was getting too old use the Cord and was agreeable to selling it back however my friend had by that time been told the grave news of his diagnosis.

 My friend could have never been involved with a car like either a Cord or a Duesenberg without the car hobby involvement of the previous two generations of his family .  It is just this sort of situation that makes multigenerational hobby involvement so rewarding to some of us.

 I treasure my fleeting involvement with my friend's father's car.  It makes Model J's so much more significant to me then seeing one at a show or in a book could ever be.

 

Greg in Canada

[Buffalowed Bill]

As I look back at the 50's and 60's, that we lucky enough to have been brought up in, those times could not have ignored or walked away from cars if we had wanted to. It didn't matter in the least that our parents weren't part of the maturation process. It was a culture completely submerged in cars, sports and girls. It may not have been "American Graffiti" every day, but it was seldom more then the next weekend away. We weren't born into the hobby, we made the hobby. 

[Licespray]

As someone on page 1 said: the cost of the “more interesting” cars sky rocketed above what the average Joe can ever dream of affording. But as I said to someone else, the good thing about something like a model A and there being a lot of them is you have non-exclusive clubs and can have a lot more fun, rather than spending a mil to have something to trailer to shows, walking around on your high horse with

 

Ill see it people here agree with something I reckon... since trade vs uni has come up.

 

I believe, after grade 12, everyone should be REQUIRED to get a trade, complete an apprenticeship. Then they can do college, or make it so they have to do this path - a trade (so that’s about 3-4 years here), then a year of customer service, then collegr if they so wish. Why customer service? To teach them some dang respect for those who do those jobs.

 

Those who don’t complete high school and do a trade or whatever they want pathwise, since they wouldn’t be going to college.

 

*shrugs*, would need to iron out the bugs.

 

Edit to add: I did grade 12, have spent the last 10 years as a fitter and turner, and am now doing a diploma (associates degree in America I think?)

Edited June 5, 2019 by Licespray (see edit history)

[1912Staver]

An interesting concept, however I am always a bit leery of one size fits  all approaches.  Some young people have a clear idea of where they are going in life, and the path they must follow to get there.

 My wife's roommate when she was a Nursing student is a great example. From a family of accountants, a few generations. Straight out of high School and nose to the grindstone at Uni . All aspects of the Accountancy career, organizing social events for clients of her Fathers and Uncles practice. Working summers at the firm the family were partners at. Early 20's and already well on her way in life. Maturity and poise well beyond her years.

How would an trade apprenticeship benefit a person in this sort of situation ?

 

Greg

Edited June 5, 2019 by 1912Staver (see edit history)

[John348]

My IBEW apprentice class was 800 only 300 graduated 5 years later, trades are not for everybody