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edinmass

Heads Up......here comes E15

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2 hours ago, carbking said:

I have done LOTS of testing on E-10, although with no vehicles newer than about 2006. My findings on fuel economy E-10 versus E-0:

 

Low compression carbureted engines - average 91~92 percent

Medium compression carburetor engines - 92~94

High compression carbureted engines (10:1 or higher) - 94~95 percent

Fuel injected engines (with O2 sensor technology) - 84~86 percent (NOT a misprint! my testing shows fuel injection with O2 much worse than carburetors in handling the E-10)

 

 

The first question that comes to mind is, were the carb engines you tested rejetted for the E10?  If not, then the reason for the difference is obvious. With jets sized for straight gasoline, the E10 makes the engine run lean, but at a given throttle opening, the jets are fixed so the fuel flow rate is fixed.  The relatively small economy differences are due to the need for more throttle opening to make up for the lost power. On an EFI motor with an O2 sensor, the ECU will sense the lean mixture and will increase the injector pulse width at a given engine load, thus the decrease in fuel economy.

 

Those of us old enough to remember the late 70s will remember oxygenated fuel (basically E10) in the winter months. The claim was that this tricked the engine into running leaner when the choke was on (which pretty much defeats the purpose of the choke being on, but these are politicians we're talking about). Of course, EFI compensates for the lean fuel, so that "benefit" is long gone.

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To me ethanol is a politically motivated product, and less of an engineering or environmentally motivated product. The agriculture industry benefits from it, so we all have to go along, apparently. Like I said, I can still get "no ethanol" fuel in Nebraska.  They charge a little more for it, but I'm willing to pay it.

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Posted (edited)

Joe - some of the carburetors I had recalibrated for the E-10, others no. On fuel economy, didn't seem to matter a lot (maybe 1~2 percent). Power difference could be noticed.

 

What I did not do, which would probably have gotten a bit of the mileage back, was to install an electronic knock sensor for the distributor, so the distributor could advance to compensate for the higher AKI of the ethanol. Since the AKI of the ethanol is so much different from the AKI of the gasoline, I didn't want to advance the timing looking for the optimal spot, and risk the engine to detonation.

 

The higher compression engines burned more of the ethanol, basically losing only the difference in energy. Higher compression engines I tested were Ford 390GT, and Pontiac RAIV.

 

I am convinced that the lower compression engines spit part of the ethanol out the exhaust unburned.

 

Jon.

Edited by carbking (see edit history)

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What an amazing economy we would have if there was half the intelligence the conspiracy theorists give them credit for.

 

My factory commissioned flex fuel truck has consistently giving exactly 20 MPG. A few tank fulls of cornohol did 16 MPG. I paid one dollar less per gallon. The truck's performance turned malaise and I had an evap CEL come on.

 

I think progress can be made but it needs to be adapted from a free market. Not some 'ere do well going "Poof! MY side of the isle is so good." (Gilligan told me it is spelt isle and the beach is a swamp with wet corn stalks).

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Bernie - not much on conspiracy theory myself.

 

However, if one does the math:

 

According to Google, the U.S. consumed 140.43 billion gallons of gasoline in 2015 (latest year).

 

If you average my figures on fuel mileage conservatively at 93 percent (since there are many more fuel injected vehicles, I feel this figure is low, but will serve to illustrate my point); then an extra 11.5 billion gallons of gasoline was consumed in 2015. Federal gas tax is 18.4 cents per gallon. This represents more than a 2 billion dollar tax increase!

 

Whether it was planned than way or not is certainly open for debate; but betcha some of the politicians have thought of it ;)

 

Jon.

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