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What are you using for Gasioline these days


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My old vehicles and lawn mowers etc I use Marine gas.they are trying to get the ethanol up to 15% !!!

This is no good for older motor's and will  cancel the warrentee on new vehicles.

Here is a vidio on this./

 

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A very few stations have ethanol free gas in my area and many of my friends seek them out for their lawn equipment and anything else they think would be affected by the ethanol in fuel.  Modern automobiles, depending on year of manufacture, have sensing systems installed to measure the ethanol content and adjust the engine accordingly.  This became necessary when the e85 flex fuel option was implemented.  Don’t get too excited by the talking heads on TV, they don’t do much research.

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What we need is to kill the government subsidies on ethanol.......its a waste of time, money, and resources. Welfare for farmers......who today are mostly huge corporate companies. It’s billions of dollars involved........and the people cashing  in don’t want the gravey train to stop.......

Edited by edinmass (see edit history)
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I have a post  from the Out Door Power Equipment Magazine  If I can find it again Ill post it.

One of the things we see is the ethanol dose a job on the gaskets and diaphragms .

 This brings me to another question

My 1930 Chrysler The gas tank was  in bad shape, the stuff inside looked like tar

I cleaned it out what I could and see the sides were solider on so I took them off and took all the pieces to the sand blaster and I brought it home and brazed up all the holes  and re solder the ends  in and took it back to the blast shop and had them cote it wit  some of the gas tank sealer of the day. when I put the truck up 20 yrs ago I drained the gas tank and now I wonder of that sealer

is still good or will it  start flaking off and cause  problems?

I did take the cap off and it still smelled good.

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Remember there is a whole lot of engineering and consideration of global use that goes into automobiles compared to lawn and garden equipment.  Yes, old devices can be affected, especially antique autos and L&G equipment.  Modern designs take ethanol into account in their use of materials.  In the L&G world, lack of frequent use is a bigger problem especially with ethanol as it has a tendency to absorb moisture.

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Ethanol is made from corn which should only be used to feed hungry people or farm animals. Check out pure gas.org and find out how close a gas station might be that sells ethanol-free gas. I leave it in my L&G equipment;and the antique cars all winter long with no I’ll effects. I do add some Stabil before winter. 

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will check on the puregas.

 The corn that is produced for Ethanol is not fit for man or beast.

They should stop that stuff and go back to the organic open pollinated crops .

I put stable and some Marvel Mystery oil in also.

Gives upper cylinder lubrication . you can do that to the new cars.

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7 hours ago, TerryB said:

Don’t get too excited by the talking heads on TV, they don’t do much research.

 

Those people will do anything to dramatize the slightest negative comment uttered. It is all a effort to raise rating and sell their sponsor's products. "Bad news sells" always has.

 

In this instance they teamed a blonde and a brunette with two styles of neckline just to appeal to as many watchers as possible. Just news fodder.

 

I pull up to the Mobil pump on the corner and use regular in everything I have except the V12, which gets Premium.

 

 

If you have a Flex Fuel vehicle your programming for the concentration of ethanol is as old as your car, any improvements or changes in the product will not be recognized by your dated programming. I don't know of a Flex Fuel program flash for my '05 Silverado, but to believe all parameters are the same in 2019 would be a "news flash" to me. I tried it, gave poor mileage and was inconsistent in quality. I went back to dinosaur squeezings (if you believe that fairy tale, as well)

Bernie

Edited by 60FlatTop (see edit history)
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Depends on how far you advance the timing and the engine geometry. Modern cars run 10:1 and 11:1 on 87 PON (which is about 91 RON and pump octane was only 70 (RON) in 1946. In 1960 8:1 would generally run on regular.

 

Modern gasolinel usually is an 84 PON base blended with 100 octane ethanol to make 87.  Without ethanol it takes better ($$$) gasoline to reach 87 but will get better MPG

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When I had my carb (UUR-2)rebuilt on the '31 Pierce, fellow says he'll put in slightly larger jets, and use larger fuel lines than original.  I was dubious, but the difference is outstanding.  Car runs stronger and even sounds different.

 

Thus, the 10% works, but you should modify your car accordingly.

 

It WILL eat up old fuel pump diaphragms, and any old rubber hose in your system.  It WILL go bad in a year, I try to run everything out at the end of the season and fill tank with no-ethanol gas.  Think about it, if you put a bottle of corn juice in your garage for a year at room temperature, what would happen?

 

As to the corn, the production of the corn hurt the environment, but it's never talked about.  Trees cut to open fields for corn production, more fertilizer plants built thus more pollution, and the price of corn went up.....not to mention that gas mileage with ethanol gas is less than with straight gas.....all things never talked about nor considered when ethanol was touted as a "green" solution...

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Modern fuel has lots of stuff in it compared to the 70’s and earlier. Blending stocks, oxygenated additives, injector cleaners, E10......fuel density, heat content, boiling point.........the list is almost endless. In THEORY the E10 should be fine, but in fact it is not. Hot soak, fuel boil under hood, float height, hot start and idle circuits are all affected. There is no simple cure to adjust for E10 and everything else in it. Every car I own and service gets the same treatment that Trimacar got  on his..........makes a huge difference. Sadly, 99 percent of the cars aren’t serviced for the new fuel.

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I agree about the ethanol racket, and I live in Nebraska  - a state that (they say) "benefits" from the production of ethanol. Here's the great irony: here in Lincoln, I have no problem finding gas stations that sell gas without any ethanol, at least beyond a trace. Not every gas station sells the non-alcohol stuff, but I'd say at least half do...and many of those that do make an effort to point out that they sell gas without ethanol. From what I hear on forums, many states outside the corn belt only allow the sale of gas with 10% or more ethanol. (???) Don't get that at all. Sounds the opposite of what it should be.

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This Ethanol is a real problem for us steamers, we must heat the fuel and vaporize it before burning it. There is a temperature range we must stay within, high enough to vaporize thoroughly, low enough to not crack the fuel and make carbon. Ethanol apparently cracks to carbon at a low temperature. I run Kerosene, and apparently they are spiking low grade kerosene (to sell it as K1 grade) with ethanol? I picked up some kerosene last year that gave me fits, made carbon like crazy. Kerosene has a higher cracking temperature than Gasoline normally. This ethanol garbage needs to go, not everyone is driving a prius. Older vehicles need pure fuel. In the case of the steamers this ethanol fuel can be very dangerous, by causing the burner to flame out and spray raw fuel and reignite by the pilot etc and possibly cause a fire or an explosion in the combustion chamber.

 

Working with vaporizing burners of 300k BTU etc gets one up close and personal with fuel quality, a buddy of mine burns gasoline in his steamer and can only burn Citgo brand.

 

Something needs to be done about it. I may wind having to buy JP4 jet fuel from the airport which is very high grade kersosene.

 

-Ron

Edited by Locomobile (see edit history)
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VP fuels makes great gas........about twenty different blends. For a steamer, I expect one could justify ordering a 55 gallon drum to use exclusively. VP fuel, C-9 has a shelf life of six years............

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There are no stations within 50 miles of me that don't have ethanol and they are in Wisconsin.  I think that areas here in Ill that have to pass emissions tests(like here near Chicago) are highly unlikely to have stations that want to dedicate a pump for fuel that might not see a lot as most folks just pull up and pump.  Most listings in Illinois are downstate or in the western parts.

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You can actually remove the E10 with a filter by passing it through a series of filters. Problem is the danger of transferring fuel, and then  getting rid of the alcohol. It’s probably the future for people who run small engines. The landscaping companies will either to upgrade to different equipment, or have their own way to remove the E10. 

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BTW "Hot soak, fuel boil under hood," this is why I run all of my cars on the cool side, between 180F and 190F for computer cars. Everything under the hood lasts longer and a 20F cooler engine (all of mine are in front) means a better AC.

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Give in... we are all going to have to.... get an eco friendly electric car..

That's what is the right thing to do for our kids and grand kids... on and on.  Global warming is a huge issue you know.

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One thing you can do is take a container . I like the clear glass bottles that the organic drinks come in .

put in  a inch or so of water then 2-3 inches of

your gas.then put the cap on and shake it up and let it settle 

Then you will see 3 rings water on the bottom the ethanol and last the gas on the top!!

If you cant get the  no ethanol  gas see if you can  find marine gas. This is what I use in my old truck and every thing else here on the farm.

 I did just recently found out there is a no ethanol near to me so Ill try it .

Been thinking of building a truck with a gasafire ! it will burn wood gas

 

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11 hours ago, c49er said:

Global warming is a huge issue you know.

 

It's not. Former director of Science for the department of energy, states that Co2 levels in the atmosphere are at the lowest levels in the history of the planet, some are even suggesting we are entering a Co2 drought. The cherry picked talking point that 97 or whatever percent of climate scientists agree that the climate is changing, that's because it has always changed and always will, has little to do with man made global climatic change. It's fake news.

 

The politically motivated climate crisis IS man made and is about nothing more than taxation and socialism.

 

 

-Ron

Edited by Locomobile (see edit history)
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Much as I thoroughly detest ethanol-containing gasoline on both political and scientific grounds, ethanol-free gasoline is not available in my area so I've been using regular E10 pump gas regularly in both my '34 and '56 Packards.  Many tens of thousands of miles accumulated on them including parades in broiling hot weather, and much as I hate the stuff, never a gasoline-related problem.

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If the gaskets and diaphragms are ethanol complaint you will be ok til the valve stems gets  loose .

If the gaskets and diaphragms are  not  one day they will go bad.

My 39 Chevy pickup  was doing ok and on the way home from a show the fuel pump gave out.

I do use stable in most every thing .

 

I have a 1942 Packard Clipper, it runs and drives but needs a lot of work. has the 282  8 in it.

It sat in a barn for 40 years and the kids broke most of the glass.

Edited by Isaiah
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55 minutes ago, Isaiah said:

Ron

How about  convert the steamer to LP.?

I had a friend that modified the regulator for the LP and used it to run a old Hit And miss  Gas engine.

 

 

Yes that can work for a steam burner also. A few issues with it, first a proper DOT certified propane tank for a transportation vehicle is expensive and of course it would not be correct for a historic vehicle, secondly, propane is a very cold fuel. On orders of heat i.e. carbon atoms per molecule- BTU/gallon as the chart shows. Of the commonly available fuels, in order of heat it is, Propane, Gasoline, Kerosene and Diesel being the hottest. There are hotter fuels like Bunker C that large ships use, but they are too impractical to use for a small vehicle. Thirdly, a steam car uses a lot of fuel, like 3000-5000 BTU per hour on average sized burner, 4000 BTU is near four gallons of fuel per hour, some of the large Dobles have burners over a Million BTU, of course the burner is not on all the time, but they are never going to out-efficient a Prius with those numbers. Back to the thirdly, Propane tanks have a limitation which is a set vaporization rate at ambient temperature or they start making ice on their exterior, a 20 pound cylinder is about 100kBTU per hour at 72 degrees F, not enough without multiple tanks or a very large tank. Some folks get the idea to heat the propane tank..... and that's what keeps YouTube in business. :)

 

-Ron

 

image.jpeg.d5a43246f55187cdd4460a4757b1e036.jpeg

 

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14 hours ago, Locomobile said:

I heard of another way to remove it is with water, pour water in the fuel and let it sit, the alcohol will mix with the water the gasoline won't. Then pour off the water with alcohol mixed in, it leaves pure gasoline.

 

-Ron

That's fine that you have removed the ethanol, but remember that the ethanol was used to boost the octane in the fuel. What are you going to use to boost the octane? All the octane boost additives in the parts store use alcohol as the primary source.

   

 In my town of 40,000 people there is one gas station that sells ethanol free fuel, however it cost way more than 92 premium.

Ethanol free fuel, paint thinner, kerosene and diesel fuel are examples of fuels that are cheaper to make than ethanol fuels that cost MORE. 

 

VP racing fuel is great, and they make a variety of different blends including ethanol, however it is ILLEGAL to use leaded fuel in a motor vehicle on a  public road or highway!

 

The only entity or persons that can use leaded fuel is in the aviation industry for airplanes with  piston engines. And for them the lead content has been cut way down from the past. You can only get 100LL gone is the fuel I used to use when I was a flight engineer 145/115!  

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14 hours ago, c49er said:

Global warming is a huge issue you know.

 

That has been changed to Climate Change. No one will admit they ever said Global Warming.

 

The corn is planted, tended, and harvested with diesel equipment. I have seen it delivered to a half operational ethanol plant by diesel trains.

It is kind of like the solar panels brought in from China and South Korean with bunker C fuel oil and transported by diesel trucks.

 

There is one politically correct planetary set of conditions that must be achieved and stabilized for all the future. Once those conditions are met nothing can change again.

 

This planet has undergone constant change for billions of years (or maybe 4,000) but that has to stop now. And remain constant.

 

Latest energy figures: https://www.eia.gov/totalenergy/data/monthly/pdf/flow/total_energy.pdf

Edited by 60FlatTop (see edit history)
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One thing you can do is take a container . I like the clear glass bottles that the organic drinks come in .

put in  a inch or so of water then 2-3 inches of

your gas.then put the cap on and shake it up and let it settle 

Then you will see 3 rings water on the bottom the ethanol and last the gas on the top!!

Using  the water method is messy and I dont know what you do with the water and ethanol when you have it separated out,

If you have a politician living nearby you could water his lawn and garden with it.

LOOK FOR MARINE GAS.

I have a station that has it and about 30 cents a gal more that the low grade  gas.

 

 

 

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I've been using non-ethanol gas in my antiques, Harley's and lawn mowers for years.   I live about 7 miles north of Dade City, Florida and there are 3 (use to be 4) stations selling the good go juice within 10 miles.🤩  One of the stations also sells 110 octane (leaded🤫) racing gas!😍  I mix a little of the high octane gas with the regular non-ethanol for the Harley's.  They surely appreciate it too.........:wub:

 

Capt. Harley😉

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Two ears ago I took a hit and miss gas engine to a show it was hot outside and the engine ran about a half hr and quit, the intake  valve was stuck , so I freed it up and put some oil on the valve stem and away it went again then about a 1/2 the intake was stuck again I went and talked to one of the other guys that had engines there and told him my problem and he said it is the gas!!

I  took it home and drained the gas out and the next year  I put the Marine gas in and went to the show  and the engine never quit on me.!

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On 5/27/2019 at 12:41 PM, Isaiah said:

 

I put stable and some Marvel Mystery oil in also.

Gives upper cylinder lubrication . you can do that to the new cars.

You cannot do that on any 1975 and newer car. Cars with catalytic converters get clogged up when you add lubricants to the fuel. The newer cars cannot even take the zink and phosphates that older motor oil contained as pressure lubricant additives. That's why these days you need to add zink and phosphates to motor oil when doing oil changes on antique vehicles  

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According to Marvel Mystery Oil's website (and calls I've made to their company), yes, you can safely use Marvel Mystery Oil in modern cars with catalytic converters.  

 

I have used MMO in the gas in my last two cat- equipped cars (Fords) with no ill effects. And, both vehicles always passed the NYS inspection emissions test every year.  And, it cleared up the fuel injectors making my 88 Econoline and 98 Windstar run noticeably better, after I bought them used with 40k+ miles on each. 

 

There's not enough oil in Marvel Mystery Oil to clog anything. It's mostly mineral spirits, with some light-weight oil,  which all burns very cleanly. 

 

BTW, there's no "Mystery" to MMO. You can download the MSDS and see exactly what is in it.

 

Paul

Edited by PFitz (see edit history)
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Here is a couple pictures of my carb off my 1930 Chrysler.

I stopped running it in  the 1990's and drained the gas tank and card bowl  and ran the electric pump dry.

I started it This Saturday and yesterday it wouldn’t start!!

The carb is cast iron and brass.

DSCN5693.JPG

DSCN5694.JPG

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That reminds me of  the older Bill Hirsch yellow gas tank sealer - before the days of the alcohol resistant type. Using it with ethanol gas partially dissolves it into lumpy goo that coats and gums up fuel system parts. I've had to clean out the fuel system in my Austin because it looked like that from using early version of gas tank sealer that I put in back in the late 1970's. It became coated with yellow goo after I left it sitting with E-10 gasoline. .  

 

Switched to using the white alcohol resistant sealer and  I've never had a problem. 

 

Paul 

Edited by PFitz (see edit history)
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When I got the truck  I got it running and used a boat tank for several years til I got the gook out of the tank,

Then  I seen the ends of the tank were soldered in and i un soldered it and took it to the sand blaster , he blasted it all over and I brought it home and brazed

the holes up and took it back to the blast and paint  shop and had him coat the inside and it was good .

I have been wondering  how the inside of the tank is?

I have a friend that has one of those little cameras that you can put in small places ,

Ill see if I can get  hem come and look inside. 

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