High compression head for 28 Std Six

[JB-ed]

 

 

 

 

Is it just "shadows" or am I seeing V-shaped channels in the transfer area that do not appear in later photo of this surface? (Five posts above) Also, do you then use an original gasket?

Edited June 16, 2019 by JB-ed (see edit history)

[Kenendcindyc]

18 minutes ago, JB-ed said:

It's also possible that if you switched to the Stromberg UX-2 carburetor, you may get even better performance --  if you use Glenn Smith's reproduction. Your distributor is not the stock model provided with the original engine. What is it from and how is the advance curve compared with the original. I presume you allow far less advance in timing, but how much?

 

Regarding my previous question, I understand your need to produce this in two parts, it's just that I could not see all the coolant passages (and still can't but that's my problem).

Ahhh sorry I misunderstood your question ,I’ll post some better pictures of the coolant passages. As far as the carb goes you might be right but I have spent quite awhile tuning and rejeting this Stewart carb and I must say I absolutely love it. I can pull it down to under 10 mph in third and smoothly accelerate to 65 mph. It’s a VERY GOOD carb when tuned and should last another 1000 years with its cast iron and bronze construction 😀.  As for the distributor at first like you I thought it wasn’t original but I have now met three other people with 28 Std Six’s that we’re built around mine that have the exact same model so I’m pretty sure it is original 🤷🏼‍♂️ But who knows anything is possible. For the timing I’m still playing with the advance curve I’ll let you know when I perfect it. (Although it does seem to like a curve that’s really close to what Chrysler used in the 25” long blocks from the 50s that were running similar compression) 

[Kenendcindyc]

19 minutes ago, JB-ed said:

 

 

 

 

Is it just "shadows" or am I seeing V-shaped channels in the transfer area that do not appear in later photo of this surface? (Five posts above) Also, do you then use an original gasket?

Yes the photos are not in sequence and yes there are “highly experimental haha” V groves in the transfer area. That’s what’s nice about making your own stuff you can try anything you like. 😀 I spent about a year studying flathead combustion chamber design and I’ve come to the conclusion that just about every shape you can think of has been tried and has its strong points and weaknesses. One disadvantage to flatheads are there long combustion chambers and there weak resistance to detonation, when compression is increased. One way to help prevent detonation is by bringing the pistons up to within .040” from the head  in the squish area and that would be the best way to do it , but on this engine pistons stop .070” below the deck and the gasket is .065” thick so that leaves my squish area at about .135” way to big for proper squish effect. Soooooo the boys over on the Hudson forum have had good results by adding turbulence groves to their flatheads when raising compression ,it seemed to eliminate detonation that they had before the grooves. So I added them in figuring I could easily weld them in if they were a flop, but as of right now they seem to be fine I get no detonation unless I push the timing too far so they can stay😀.  Yes that’s the original design head gasket provided buy the WONDERFUL Tom and Cindy of Myers early Dodge.  

[JACK M]

I see that you also run a cat.                                                  

[Kenendcindyc]

11 minutes ago, JACK M said:

I see that you also run a cat.                                                  

Haha, at first I was like cat? Maybe he spotted the o2 sensor bung in the exhaust I used to tune the carb? But then I remembered “the 🐈 “ haha good one 👍🏻

[JB-ed]

Are you going to the DB Club's annual meet next week?  I'd LOVE to talk about this further with you. 

 

Regarding the distributor, your 1-0836 must be a later replacement. The Standard and Victory engines are identical and all are spec'd for the same North East distributors. I have a detailed North East/Delco later application catalog that does not show 1-0836.  I suspect the original distributors crumbled on the three Standards you have seen and all were replaced with this one. I have seen many Victory engines with later Delcos, same thing.

[Kenendcindyc]

2 hours ago, JB-ed said:

Are you going to the DB Club's annual meet next week?  I'd LOVE to talk about this further with you. 

 

Regarding the distributor, your 1-0836 must be a later replacement. The Standard and Victory engines are identical and all are spec'd for the same North East distributors. I have a detailed North East/Delco later application catalog that does not show 1-0836.  I suspect the original distributors crumbled on the three Standards you have seen and all were replaced with this one. I have seen many Victory engines with later Delcos, same thing.

Unfortunately I will not be attending ,work gets in the way sometimes. 

You might be right about the distributor not being original, information on these years is hard to find and I’ve found pretty much no information about a 1-0836 except that it might be a early senior six engine distributor. I doubt it’s a replacement for this engine since North East Electric was  bought by Delco in 1929 but who knows 🤷🏼‍♂️. 

Edited June 17, 2019 by Kenendcindyc (see edit history)

[JB-ed]

Not to wring the last drop out of this, but I have a late 1930s "Delco" book that shows North East units, obsolete units, and replacement units for all their components. Delco continued the North East name and --more or less-- parts book for some time after buying them out. Regarding your particular distributor, is it possible that the hyphen (-) in the model number is actually a blurred out digit? This would make more sense based on the North East and later Delco numberings for these items. I suppose this matters little. However I have documented so much for the Victory Six, even going so far as to construct a service book (in CD format, sold by Myers), and so I would like to track down this distributor as a possible alternative to the original OEM.

 

I am going to hunt down the similar thread in the Hudson forum, as you mentioned, to see more about all of this. I find your work and success fascinating. I have experimented considerably with advance curves and also carburetor tunings for this engine. Much of my work follows that of Glenn Smith (Queensland Australia) who has had access to a dynamometer and has worked with it, both in designing his reproduction Stromberg carburetor and in tuning this engine.

[Kenendcindyc]

No problem JB-Ed I love the back and forth discussion it’s how things get figured out. Google (Singh groves hetclub) and it should get you some info. Or just Singh grooves. I have no idea if they work but figured I’d try them. They might be total witch craft but damn my engine is running good. 😀. As far as the distributor I’ll attach more pictures of mine and a car from Vermont. Hopefully we can figure this mystery out. 👍🏻

[Kenendcindyc]

That second picture is tough to tell but trust me it’s exactly the same as mine. 

[Kenendcindyc]

Better pictures of the Vermont car

[JB-ed]

Ha...10836. That makes more sense.

 

The earliest Senior Sixes came out late spring 1927 with this distributor, but changed to North East 10846.

Victory, introduced January 1928 (manufacturing started very slowly end of November 1927) had 10846.

Standard, introduced spring 1928, had 10846.

 

There were adjustments to the advance curve resulting in 10846-A and 10846-B. (These all had dual points, one piece pot-metal distributor housing, now being reproduced by Glenn Smith with points plate taking dual modern points))

 

Finally,  Chrysler switched to 10845 (single points), late 1928, and this carried over to the 1929-30 DA.

 

The Senior engine was enlarged and otherwise tweaked, probably involving the change from 10836 to 10846.

 

This is more technical history rather than anything relevant to your work.

 

I will be discussing all this with guys at the annual meet with great interest. Thanks for posting your work. This is highly interesting.  I hope we can talk in person some time. I am in NE Ohio.

 

John.