Brass Lamps - any info?

[Terry Bond]

Just added this great pair of brass  side lamps to my collection.  They are British, made by J.R. Oldfield, Birmingham.  Model number is 426 and the name is "Dependence."  There is also a small oval tag on them below the front lens with the name "Colty" enclosed in a simple diamond.  See photos.  They are exquisite!  Note the starburst design cut into the glass lenses on them.  The nickle plating is in great condition and the silver reflectors are quite pristine.  They show evidence of minimal usage in their lifetime.  It's a pair that I've not even attempted to clean or polish further, and don't intend to do anything to them except display and enjoy.  I would however like to find more information about them.  I'll be  going through some of my early British auto accessory catalogs as time permits to see if I can find anything there, but if anyone knows anything about the lamps, their possible application, or the significance of the label "Colty" on them, would love to have the story.

Thanks

Terry

[Mark Shaw]

Very interesting find Terry.  I have a Lucas "King of the Road" horn if you are interested in British brass.

[Terry Bond]

Not particularly interested in British brass, they did produce some quality items, but my collection of brass includes a lot of other examples from USA, France, Germany, and of course the UK.  Have several Lucas horns but a photo and price would be helpful. You can send a PM if you prefer, but would love to at least look at it.

Thanks,

Terry

[1912Staver]

I suspect British lamps are in a similar situation to American lamps, that is that in many cases a particular model of lamp is not specific make or model.  Sometimes there are exceptions , EG. the Gray and Davis lamps fitted to and bearing engraving specific to Cadillac.

In England there were so many cars built as chassis to be bodied by one of the numerous coachbuilding firms of the day.  I suspect the customer could usually have whatever lamps fitted that they preferred. If there was no customer preference I would imagine many of the coachbuilders would have a relationship with a local agent for one of the lamp manufacturers and probably fit something from that manufacturers catalog.

So there is a good chance the make and model of lamp depends more on the coach builder than the make of chassis. High production car models where standardization was necessary excepted of course.

Could Colty be a local agent ?

 

Greg in Canada

Edited May 22, 2019 by 1912Staver (see edit history)

[Locomobile]

I'm thinking this "Dependence" company was the predecessor of Powell & Hanmer as there are very many similarities, or "dependence" is the model of P&H lamp. Powell & Hanmer sold out and became Lucas, otherwise known as "The prince of darkness".

P&H was in Birmingham England and they named all of their lamps, Panther, Cougar etc.

 

Similarities are the font and the bracket on the side and the flue is similar.

-Ron

Edited May 22, 2019 by Locomobile (see edit history)

[Terry Bond]

Dependence is the name of the model of the lamp.  It's common for Brit lamps to be designated by both a name and a number.  There is no relationship between the company that made them (J.R. Oldfield) and P&H (Powell and Hanmer).  I have some history on P& H - In 1885 Francis Powell and Francis Hanmer founded the company using their combined names - Powell and Hanmer.  in the Summer of 1885, their first advertisement appearing in November 1885. The made bicycle lamps but began offering automobile lights in the early 1900s.  In 1929 Powell and Hanmer Ltd, which Lucas acquired that year, was, at that time, its principal competitor in non-electrical equipment for cycles and motor cycles. When a director of that company joined the board of Austin, Lucas feared that he might encourage Powell and Hanmer to produce electrical equipment for supply to Austin and that the association might also affect Lucas's quotations to other large vehicle manufacturers. Lucas made an offer to Powell & Hanmer and purchased the business for £500,000.  P&H was one of many Birmingham based companies and was known to produce high quality lamps.  I have several examples in my collection.

 

Oldfield was a highly regarded manufacturer of railroad lamps and later branched off into automobile lamps.  Here is an undated advertisement for their Dependence tail lamp, obviously an entirely different type of lamp, perhaps earlier than mine.  Still looking through some of my early accessory catalogs so additional advertising and info may yet surface.

[Locomobile]

They do look similar in overall styling, I wouldn't go as far as to say they had no relationship, it could have been a matter of simply copying off of one another, or trading employees, both manufacturers were in Birmingham which was the manufacturing capital of the world at one time along with Sheffield. Those are really good well made lamps.

 

 

 

 

[Terry Bond]

Well, a dig through all of my British accessory catalogs - Gamages, Brown Brothers, etc dating back to 1903 did not turn up these lamps, although there were others manufactured by Oldfield, none had the cut-glass lens, or the "Coty" tag on them.  I searched to see if perhaps Coty was an unknown auto parts supply house, or perhaps a coach-builder, or even a dealership, but could find nothing.  I'll  need to email a few friends in England to see if something else turns up, but for now, it remains a mystery.

Terry

[Mark Shaw]

On 5/22/2019 at 8:02 AM, Terry Bond said:

Not particularly interested in British brass, they did produce some quality items, but my collection of brass includes a lot of other examples from USA, France, Germany, and of course the UK.  Have several Lucas horns but a photo and price would be helpful. You can send a PM if you prefer, but would love to at least look at it.

Thanks,

Terry

Terry,

     This horn was left unpolished, but is in very good condition.

[Terry Bond]

Thanks Mark, is it marked "Lucas King of the Road" on it anywhere?  It just doesn't look like a typical Lucas horn to me.

Clearer pics of the mounting bracket and emblem on it would be very helpful.

Terry

[PFindlay]

I have a Lucas King of the Road Horn like Mark's on my 1910 Russell-Knight (Canadian car).  Mine is a different model number than Mark's but looks pretty much the same.  Sounds great, too.

Peter

[Mark Shaw]

16 hours ago, Terry Bond said:

"Lucas King of the Road" on it anywhere?

Yes, I will take some close-ups and post them later...

[John_Mereness]

On 5/20/2019 at 6:04 PM, Terry Bond said:

Just added this great pair of brass  side lamps to my collection.  They are British, made by J.R. Oldfield, Birmingham.  Model number is 426 and the name is "Dependence."  There is also a small oval tag on them below the front lens with the name "Colty" enclosed in a simple diamond.  See photos.  They are exquisite!  Note the starburst design cut into the glass lenses on them.  The nickle plating is in great condition and the silver reflectors are quite pristine.  They show evidence of minimal usage in their lifetime.  It's a pair that I've not even attempted to clean or polish further, and don't intend to do anything to them except display and enjoy.  I would however like to find more information about them.  I'll be  going through some of my early British auto accessory catalogs as time permits to see if I can find anything there, but if anyone knows anything about the lamps, their possible application, or the significance of the label "Colty" on them, would love to have the story.

Thanks

Terry

Neat lamps !

[Mark Shaw]

On 5/26/2019 at 3:45 PM, Terry Bond said:

Thanks Mark, is it marked "Lucas King of the Road" on it anywhere?  It just doesn't look like a typical Lucas horn to me.

Clearer pics of the mounting bracket and emblem on it would be very helpful.

Terry

Terry,

    I am not the owner, but this horn is for sale.  It is in very good condition, but not polished in case someone wanted the original patina.

Here is a photo o fthe King of the Road label.