Off-track comments regarding Earl's 1939 Buick, and didn't want to delete them.

[1912Staver]

I really have to wonder about Ford's rationale . First they dropped nearly all the cars from their line . Gas has shot up to near European prices here in Western Canada ,  $1.70 / litre Canadian , about $4.80 U.S. / gal.  And just Mustangs and trucks for sale. Not everyone has an expense account for fuel. 

  Then they load up the vehicles with tons of built in tech. And how many years do you think will pass before all that "stuff" either does not work or is obsolete ?

 24 month leases are a very expensive way to go. Many younger people don't have that sort of disposable income.

 Many older people don't want all that built in future E waste.

 Seems like a flawed marketing strategy.

 

 

The way Uber treats its drivers I can't see that business model surviving long term either. Not everyone can operate a car for hire on minimal income forever.

 

Greg in Canada

[md murray]

Ford sells an F-series pickup every 41.8 seconds,  estimated $11 Billion in profit on F-series with 909,000 units sold in US alone 2018. Morgan Stanley analysts have famously said that if Fords pickups were their own franchise they would easily rake in more annual profits than McDonalds, 3M, or United Technologies. They would have ranked it 38 on the 2018 Fortune 500 list right behind Boeing and Pepsi co.

So it would appear many folks are not deterred by gas prices.

[1912Staver]

43 minutes ago, md murray said:

Ford sells an F-series pickup every 41.8 seconds,  estimated $11 Billion in profit on F-series with 909,000 units sold in US alone 2018. Morgan Stanley analysts have famously said that if Fords pickups were their own franchise they would easily rake in more annual profits than McDonalds, 3M, or United Technologies. They would have ranked it 38 on the 2018 Fortune 500 list right behind Boeing and Pepsi co.

So it would appear many folks are not deterred by gas prices.

 

I definitely understand they are very good sellers. Just seems like a very expensive form of transport. My Hyundai cost me less than a third of a F150's base price and is quite a bit cheaper to operate , everything from fuel to battery replacement to tires. And it got me back and forth on a longish commute with absolutely no trouble in every sort of weather day in day out. 

 

I have a early 90's  F150. And for a decade before that a 70's F250, and for a decade before that a 1960's M100 so I am well acquainted with the Ford line. I have always put temp. insurance on them the 5 or 6 times a year I actually need a truck. I just can't imagine using any of them as daily transport like many do. One thing if you are a tradesman who actually needs a truck for work . But quite another as  a stand in for a car. Just the hassle of parking lots and urban traffic , let alone the operating cost.

 

Greg

Edited May 15, 2019 by 1912Staver (see edit history)

[1937hd45]

I Googled this to confirm what I just saw an hour ago in the parking lot. You can check your cars tire pressure with a iPhone, guy looked to be in his mid 20's. 

 

 

Bob 

[1912Staver]

I liked Paul Walker in his movies. And I admired him with his legit racing . However his and his friends death in a very high performance Porsche, driven at a very high speed, on the street is more deserving of a Darwin award than a multi thousand car tribute cruise. 

 Didn't he get enough of a thrill behind the wheel of a race car, on a race track , in a fire suit , with emergency crews at the ready ? His death in a ball of flame on a back street just seems so stupid to me. Surely his time in the film industry and time on the real track should have made it clear to him no human is Superman.

 

Greg

Edited May 15, 2019 by 1912Staver (see edit history)

[1912Staver]

I must admit I only saw the first 3 movies. And you are right ,each one even up to that point was less likable than the first.

 

Greg

[Pfeil]

3 hours ago, md murray said:

Ford sells an F-series pickup every 41.8 seconds,  estimated $11 Billion in profit on F-series with 909,000 units sold in US alone 2018. Morgan Stanley analysts have famously said that if Fords pickups were their own franchise they would easily rake in more annual profits than McDonalds, 3M, or United Technologies. They would have ranked it 38 on the 2018 Fortune 500 list right behind Boeing and Pepsi co.

So it would appear many folks are not deterred by gas prices.

You mean Ford sells a F series want-a-be truck every 41.8 seconds!

[KongaMan]

Ford sold 70,000 F-series trucks last month.  The largest selling car was the Camry -- at fewer than 30,000 units.  Do the math.

Edited May 15, 2019 by KongaMan (see edit history)

[Matt Harwood]

1 minute ago, KongaMan said:

Ford sold 70,000 F-series trucks last year.  The largest selling car was the Camry -- at fewer than 30,000 units.  Do the math.

 

Those look like monthly figures, not yearly. They sell something like 850,000 F-series trucks each year.

[KongaMan]

You're right -- brain cramp.

[Pfeil]

2 minutes ago, Matt Harwood said:

 

Those look like monthly figures, not yearly. They sell something like 850,000 F-series trucks each year.

Those are want -a- be trucks

[md murray]

The only thing I "want-a-be" is out the door for less than $70,000 to update my F-350!

[39BuickEight]

A gigantic percentage of F-150 sales are fleet sales.  Depending on the timing of the fleet reports, the sales figures are different.  Often, GM combination of Chevrolet and GMC outsell the F-150, but, since they are separated on paper, the F-150 wins.

 

Whether a person thinks the new trucks are "real trucks" or not, they are what is available in the category, and incredibly powered and more comfortable and capable than ever.  Change happens. 

 

 

[KongaMan]

Just now, Pfeil said:

Those are want -a- be trucks

1. It's "wannabe".

2. You think Ford should drop the largest selling vehicle in the country to satisfy your sense of machismo?

[Pfeil]

18 minutes ago, KongaMan said:

1. It's "wannabe".

2. You think Ford should drop the largest selling vehicle in the country to satisfy your sense of machismo?

NO, I think Ford should build a real work truck that doesn't wear you out loading and unloading it. Try lifting a 90Lb. wet saw over the bed rail of a 2WD ford truck! My 1999 Fords bedrail is 3' 10" high and it's a 4X4, a 2wd NEW Ford is at least one foot higher and a 4X4 is even higher. Sure Chevy has a new truck with a folding step, but that won't help you when the bed is full and you need something at the front. That fold down step is a admission that ALL the trucks are too high to WORK out of. They are all IF you prefer the term "WANNABE" Trucks. Or in other words useless to someone who works out of a truck because it wears you out. 

Offer it with V-8, 5 speed stick shift, A/C, AM FM CD radio, manual windows, full rubber floor mats/NO carpeting. Let's also keep the price down. 

[edinmass]

 Having driven Ford trucks for 40 years  then switching to two new general motors 3500 series diesel trucks in the last two years.  I can tell you I will never buy another GM again , two engines in two months.  And one Allison transmission shredded to chips.   I miss my old 7.3 L Ford ! 

Edited May 15, 2019 by edinmass (see edit history)

[Matt Harwood]

6 minutes ago, Pfeil said:

NO, I think Ford should build a real work truck that doesn't wear you out loading and unloading it. Try lifting a 90Lb. wet saw over the bed rail of a 2WD ford truck! My 1999 Fords bedrail is 3' 10" high and it's a 4X4, a 2wd NEW Ford is at least one foot higher and a 4X4 is even higher. Sure Chevy has a new truck with a folding step, but that won't help you when the bed is full and you need something at the front. That fold down step is a admission that ALL the trucks are too high to WORK out of. They are all IF you prefer the term "WANNABE" Trucks. Or in other words useless to someone who works out of a truck because it wears you out. 

Offer it with V-8, 5 speed stick shift, A/C, AM FM CD radio, manual windows, full rubber floor mats/NO carpeting. Let's also keep the price down. 

 

I can't argue with any of that.

[KongaMan]

 

58 minutes ago, Pfeil said:

NO, I think Ford should build a real work truck that doesn't wear you out loading and unloading it. Try lifting a 90Lb. wet saw over the bed rail of a 2WD ford truck! ... Or in other words useless to someone who works out of a truck because it wears you out. 

You might try dropping the gate and loading it like that.  

 

Sounds like you bought the wrong tool for the job.  That ain't Ford's fault.  Maybe a used S-10 would be more appropriate for your needs.

[1937hd45]

Very first new vehicle was a 1976 Ford F-150, every option less power windows, out the door for just under $7,500.00. I think the same truck doubled in price in 4 years, and would be knocking on $50,000 today. I often wonder what the lawn guys have in rolling stock, Crew cab truck enclosed trailer two ride on SCAG mowers and the trimmers and blowers, has to be $100,000.00 or very close. 

 

 

Bob

[8E45E]

24 minutes ago, 1937hd45 said:

Very first new vehicle was a 1976 Ford F-150, every option less power windows, out the door for just under $7,500.00.

I believe the first year Ford offered power windows on a F-150 was 1982.

 

Craig

[Pfeil]

48 minutes ago, KongaMan said:

 

You might try dropping the gate and loading it like that.  

 

Sounds like you bought the wrong tool for the job.  That ain't Ford's fault.  Maybe a used S-10 would be more appropriate for your needs.

What happens if the only space in the bed is in the front?? 

 

No, I didn't bring the wrong tool, and I don't need a S10- my 1999 Ford is just fine except it's old, it's just the new trucks ( ALL OF THEM) are too high and too expensive because they are all loaded with needless accessories. The new Ford ranger is also too high and only comes with a I-4 and only in a automatic so forget about towing. Also the Ford Ranger is almost as big as a F150 and wide??? 59-60 Cadillac's are about 80" wide, these Rangers are 80.4" wide !!! 

 

When I worked in the automotive industry I was always advocating in fold down bed rails to the VP of marketing and people from product planning, but they were dead set in bringing trucks into the WANNABE realm that was in 2006 when I retired.

 There was only one company who really made the effort to put the right kind of truck bed on a truck, and the bed rails could be folded down and the truck could be loaded with a forklift from three sides;

 

 

 

what a concept!!!

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited May 15, 2019 by Pfeil (see edit history)

[TerryB]

My 1995 F150, 6 auto, 2wd, no air or cruise or power anything.  Rubber mat floor w/vinyl seats.  Bought it as an orphan leftover in 1996, had it till 2013.

[Buffalowed Bill]

I'm not trying to take sides, just restore a little balance to the truck talk-which by all rights probably should have it's own thread. My nephew is a certified Ford diesel mechanic, and who is the best mechanic I know. He no longer works in the industry, but he can give an in-depth critique of anything out there. When Jon talks people listen, I know I do. So what does he drive and why? The truck he bought new is a 1996 Dodge. The other is a Dodge that he picked up, for little or nothing. It was a well used work truck with 350K on the odometer, when he got it. The first truck is in beautiful condition showing over 200K . The work truck shows 500K. Neither engine has ever had any major work done to it. So why does Ford diesel mechanic drive Dodges? In his words it's because of the "Cummins."  

[1937hd45]

42 minutes ago, 8E45E said:

I believe the first year Ford offered power windows on a F-150 was 1982.

 

Craig

Ok, Maybe I was thinking power door locks, check out that option availability please. Bob 

[auburnseeker]

Dodge would be in trouble if it wasn't for the Cummins.  The rest of the trucks fell apart around them.   They are very good engines and probably saved Dodges Butt.  Then again power trains have always been the best part of most Mopar products from the 50's up.  They were very dependable.  The rest of the car or truck not so much.  

[KongaMan]

1 hour ago, Pfeil said:

What happens if the only space in the bed is in the front?? 

Let the smart guy load it next time.  

 

1 hour ago, Pfeil said:

The new Ford ranger is also too high and only comes with a I-4 and only in a automatic so forget about towing. … There was only one company who really made the effort to put the right kind of truck bed on a truck, and the bed rails could be folded down and the truck could be loaded with a forklift from three sides;

But then, you can't tow anything with the VW.  You're back where you started -- a truck you don't want.

 

It doesn't really seem that the new trucks can be properly characterized as "wannabes", even if they aren't designed consistently with your wants.  The term "wannabe" connotes that they're not up to the job.  Thing is, they are.  The problem is that they are too much truck for most buyers.  Many/most of the guys driving these gimungo crew cab jobs don't need them or a 7,000 lb. towing capacity; a smaller truck would serve their needs nicely.  Think about all the dualies you see driving around.  And for what?  They never tow anything.  They sure don't need leather upholstery and 14-channel sound systems and onboard massage seats and all the rest.  It's not that they're wannabe trucks; it's that the drivers are posers buying status symbols.  And the posers buy a lot of status symbols.  So, Ford, GMC, et al follow the money.  What else should they do?

[Grimy]

Oh my, this is getting awfully pointed.  My F-350 dually 7.3 was special-ordered new and will be of drinking age (21--lest you run out of appendages to count) later this month.  180K miles, 100K of that towing 10,000 lbs of trailer & contents.  I will do a pre-emptive tranny rebuild (4R100) later this year (the first) because the upshifts are getting a bit sloppy.  Early on I installed Mag-Hytec finned aluminum trans pan (added 8 qts to capacity) and diff cover (brought capacity from 4 qts to 7.5), and I attribute the trans and diff longevity to those items.  The 7.3 has plenty of grunt and is extremely durable and dependable, although not fast by today's standards.  It's a Lariat with leather and other accoutrements because I want comfort on long hauls.  It's clean but not enough for HPOF in a very few years because I use it as a TRUCK, dammit.  My DD is a 1995 Mazda B-2300 extra-cab with 5-speed and air, purchased early 2006 for $4500 with under 11K miles, as I want the F-350 to be my last towing vehicle.

 

Everybody needs to analyze their future uses and spec a truck that will serve those needs and quit worrying about the other guy.

[Pfeil]

59 minutes ago, KongaMan said:

Let the smart guy load it next time.  

 

But then, you can't tow anything with the VW.  You're back where you started -- a truck you don't want.

 

 

 

 

You're a smart guy,  you should know during the course of the day or work week that things come up and some times things aren't loaded and used like a assy. line, besides the front of the bed is where the tool box sits if you had forgotten.  Things happen , schedules are sometime rearranged I thought people could understand that and relate, but I can see you can't by your other comments to people you can foresee the future 100% of the time.😉

 

The comment I made about the VW Transporter was all about the Transporters bed and not the "truck" "if" you read carefully,  and that the bed part is a very good idea that I wish other manufacturers would adopt. Nothing about me owning a VW truck that is no longer for sale in this country, it was just about the bed however a bed like that would sure help people from wearing themselves out climbing in and out.

 Next time you are at a lumber yard, hardware store, masonry supply etc.  ask some poor old sod trying to load their truck how much they like their high bed rails?? 

 

When I worked for a major manufacturer our engineering department was close by to a viewing facility that product planning and marketing would use. The facility had a viewing area like a showroom in a dealership and these departments would pay people off the street to give opinion on our product. When trucks were presented we never had contractors or people who worked in the building trades that actually used their truck for what trucks are supposed to be designed to do. I guess those types of people had no time because they were "working". 

[1937hd45]

Steve, Did you get to the Beardsley Cider Mill meet, I think they had around 60 cars 1931 and older. Bob 

[Frank DuVal]

6 hours ago, KongaMan said:

Sounds like you bought the wrong tool for the job.  That ain't Ford's fault.  Maybe a used S-10 would be more appropriate for your needs.

 

Really? How do you load 4 x 8 sheets of anything flat in the bed of an S-10? How do you carry 16 foot 2 x 12s in an S-10?

 

I did not buy the wrong tool for the job, as I am still driving my 1984 F-150 with sides low enough to load/unload tools and equipment from the sides. And a bed height I can still get into and out of without risking breaking a leg jumping or having to use a ladder. Is there a work truck class at Hershey? I could qualify! WPC, Work Participation Class?

 

I do not need a truck to go off-roading, but that is what Ford is building now. Excessive ground clearance on every model I have seen. Sure they look good in the parking lot at work, size matters to some!  😁

 

7.3 liter diesel? Good luck finding one with low miles! And so many people I work with have had issues costing killo dollars with their 6.0 liter and 6.4 liter Fords.  $10,000 to put a new 6 liter engine in when the roller lifters fall apart. If I needed to haul a trailer, I would get the Dodge, oops, I mean Ram, there are no new Dodge trucks......

 

And, there are many other world trucks with fold down sides. Just no American models with them. The Subaru 360 pick up had fold down sides, so did those first Suzuki trucks, and of course the "Jingle" trucks of the middle east.

 

Back to Earl's issue.👍

 

 

Edited May 16, 2019 by Frank DuVal (see edit history)

[Frank DuVal]

10 hours ago, 1937hd45 said:

You can check your cars tire pressure with a iPhone

 

And, get the OBD II port dongle and it becomes an OBD II scanner! This should help us with AACA eligible cars in only 2 years! Make that one year for some models.😲

 

And, I DO use my iPhone in my Graham, as an accurate speedometer/odometer. There you go, iPhones and antique cars living peacefully together.... 😉

[zepher]

3 hours ago, Grimy said:

Oh my, this is getting awfully pointed.  My F-350 dually 7.3 was special-ordered new and will be of drinking age (21--lest you run out of appendages to count) later this month.  180K miles, 100K of that towing 10,000 lbs of trailer & contents.  I will do a pre-emptive tranny rebuild (4R100) later this year (the first) because the upshifts are getting a bit sloppy.  Early on I installed Mag-Hytec finned aluminum trans pan (added 8 qts to capacity) and diff cover (brought capacity from 4 qts to 7.5), and I attribute the trans and diff longevity to those items.  The 7.3 has plenty of grunt and is extremely durable and dependable, although not fast by today's standards.  It's a Lariat with leather and other accoutrements because I want comfort on long hauls.  It's clean but not enough for HPOF in a very few years because I use it as a TRUCK, dammit.  My DD is a 1995 Mazda B-2300 extra-cab with 5-speed and air, purchased early 2006 for $4500 with under 11K miles, as I want the F-350 to be my last towing vehicle.

 

Everybody needs to analyze their future uses and spec a truck that will serve those needs and quit worrying about the other guy.

 

I always thought the aftermarket diff covers were a great upgrade, until I saw this series of videos.

 

https://youtu.be/n4DQ-jzKQRw

[Grimy]

Thanks, zepher (C.C., right?), I was unaware of those videos.  I watched the first two, and will catch the 3rd later when I have more time.

 

I don't fill the Mag-Hytec above the fluid level line of the original.  My far-less-scientific test was hitting each pan (trans and diff) on a 98*F day in Utah after pulling 10K lbs of trailer and Pierce up a VERY steep (up to 12-14%) two-lane road around Bryce Canyon Park for about 5 miles, with the 4R100 locked in 2nd gear.  (If I'd known what that road was going to be, I'd have dropped the trailer at the base and would have come back for it.)  At the top, I pulled over and set a fast idle and used an infrared thermometer on the *outside* of the pans (I figure I should add about 30* or more to measure inside fluid temp), and got readings of 169*F for the trans and 189*F for the diff, with which I was very pleased.  The diff is the factory option Dana 80 limited-slip and I was running the factory-recommended 75W-90 full syn gear oil.  When I see his reading of 336*F as "normal" I'm pretty happy.  I agree that the difference in cavity shape and size may affect the routing/churning/delivery of lube to the pinion.  I can only say I've had no problems in 180K miles.

 

This is not intended to be snarky, but Mr. Banks did not mention "cost savings" as a potential reason for the shape of factory covers!

 

Thanks for posting these very interesting videos.

[zepher]

Yeah, you have the name correct. 

I know Banks is out to sell their aftermarket gear and whatnot but I was very surprised to see the big difference in how the fluid reacted and traveled within the differential with the various covers.

At least he approached it from a practical application point of view and not just a bling or purely volume point of view.

I posted the link as informational and something to take into consideration.

Sounds like your larger cover is doing its job, and that is a good thing.  The video clearly shows that some covers actually starve the 3rd member of fluid.

 

And I don't know that I would ever leave my Pierce and enclosed trailer somewhere that didn't have some sort of security or someone watching it.

I'd have to chain Loki to the hitch just in case.

 

[Grimy]

15 minutes ago, zepher said:

I'd have to chain Loki to the hitch just in case.

Loki has to be with Greg!  If I have to leave the full trailer, besides the arms room padlock on the coupler there's a chain around two wheels.  You may remember my Malty-poo "Rags" a veteran of 8 Pierce meets and multiple Modoc tours--at 10-12 lbs he was an attack mop and went with me everywhere but we lost him at age 17+ a year ago.

 

Agree that Banks was about as scientific as he could be. 

[richasco]

After reading the last few pages, it seems like pre-war interest has died here too.

[Dynaflash8]

12 hours ago, 1937hd45 said:

Very first new vehicle was a 1976 Ford F-150, every option less power windows, out the door for just under $7,500.00. I think the same truck doubled in price in 4 years, and would be knocking on $50,000 today. I often wonder what the lawn guys have in rolling stock, Crew cab truck enclosed trailer two ride on SCAG mowers and the trimmers and blowers, has to be $100,000.00 or very close. 

 

 

Bob

Mine uses a little Dodge Dakota and a 12-foot closed trailer

[Dynaflash8]

6 hours ago, Frank DuVal said:

 

And, get the OBD II port dongle and it becomes an OBD II scanner! This should help us with AACA eligible cars in only 2 years! Make that one year for some models.😲

 

And, I DO use my iPhone in my Graham, as an accurate speedometer/odometer. There you go, iPhones and antique cars living peacefully together.... 😉

I just bought an Android last Friday.  Driving....ahh.....driving me crazy.  On the side tell me how you can gauge the real vehicle speed with one of these damned smart phones.  I solved that problem with my 41 Buick by converting only my radio to 12v and putting a plug on the side so I could plug in my RadioShack GPS.  It cost over $500, but I've been considering it for the blue '39 Buick..  Instead I can get GPS on this new Android cell phone, but I don't know how to gauge speed with it....Send me some info (in a side message).  This thread I started is so far off track we'll never get back.  I might as well add to it though.  I have a 2007 Chevrolet Suburban 3/4 ton 6.0 engine.  It won't pull the hat off your head and pulling my 24-foot trailer will barely ever make it to 8.0.  I'd buy something else, but it's too late in the game.

[John_S_in_Penna]

45 minutes ago, Dynaflash8 said:

 This thread I started is so far off track we'll never get back. ... 

 

It was an interesting discussion when it was about

the popularity of pre-war cars and the ability to sell Earl's 1939 Buick---

[Steve_Mack_CT]

9 hours ago, 1937hd45 said:

Steve, Did you get to the Beardsley Cider Mill meet, I think they had around 60 cars 1931 and older. Bob 

No sir.  Next year, life got in the way!  Glad it was a great meet from what I heard.