nick8086

California without gasoline-burning cars?

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Posted (edited)

How will this work?

 

No more car shows in California.

 

In California, a ban on the sale of internal-combustion cars is considered a fanciful idea. In fact, a bill to ban the sale of internal-combustion cars by 2040.

 

 

https://www.msn.com/en-us/money/markets/is-california-ready-to-ban-gas-powered-cars-not-yet-but-theyre-thinking-about-it/ar-AABtzk8?li=BBnb7Kz

 

 

Edited by nick8086 (see edit history)

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Posted (edited)

I guess there is a big push on this in Europe also .

 

What I do not understand is they are laying new pipelines all over the place there to bring oil to Europe .

 

Yet they they are going to ban the gas and oil cars .

European countries banning fossil fuel cars and switching to electric

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Norway was one of the first countries in the world to propose a ban on the sale of petrol and diesel cars by making the switch to electric-powered vehicles, with many nations following its lead. Road Traffic Technology takes a look at European countries banning fossil fuel cars and introducing electric incentives.

Edited by Mark Gregory (see edit history)

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Just a caution folks...legitimate subject but let's not let this thing go down the rat hole. 

 

SEMA and all the clubs with legislative activism will need to be diligent in contacting their legislators.  I imagine other industry groups will be active as well.  Most importantly, the car culture in California is strong and those folks need to call and write!

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A ban on the sale of NEW IC vehicles is NOT a retroactive ban on all IC vehicles.  Frankly, there hasn't been a new car built in the last 20 years that I would be remotely interested in owning. And think about this.  If the general public drives more non-gasoline vehicles, that leaves more oil for the rest of us. As demand goes down, so does price.  Win-win.

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Keep an eye in your own states as well.  This is the type of legislation passed through in the dark of night tucked in some emergency funding bill or save the orphans or something so no one dares Veto it.  Many countries citizenry don't get the say we are suppose to have. Lets hope we can hault crazy legislation before it takes hold. 

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Just now, joe_padavano said:

As demand goes down, so does price. 

Not always so.  Demand for alcohol free fuel is low but it costs more.  Lots of time they charge more for stuff less used. 

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Considering the number of times California has run out of electricity, compared with the number of times they have run out of gas, I don't know how it is going to work when they double the demand for electricity to run all the cars, trucks and buses.

Maybe they will put the homeless and illegals to work pulling rickshaws ( sarkylert)

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Electric cars cause more harm to the environment than gasoline cars. Mining for the battery is toxic. After the car is junk you have to deal with the toxic battery. Plus all the energy required to charge the car. Nobody talks about this ever.

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15 minutes ago, Brass is Best said:

Electric cars cause more harm to the environment than gasoline cars. Mining for the battery is toxic. After the car is junk you have to deal with the toxic battery. Plus all the energy required to charge the car. Nobody talks about this ever.

 

WoW! The ignorance here is staggering.

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43 minutes ago, Rusty_OToole said:

Considering the number of times California has run out of electricity, compared with the number of times they have run out of gas, I don't know how it is going to work when they double the demand for electricity to run all the cars, trucks and buses.

Maybe they will put the homeless and illegals to work pulling rickshaws ( sarkylert)

 My first thought, too.

 

Not only is California having brown outs at high- peak demand times, there's a proposal to cut off all power in areas that have days of high risk for forest fires.   Sounds like a State level case of the right hand is not talking to the left hand.

 

Paul

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Up here in British Columbia our provincial government is talking the same sort of thing. In urban Vancouver I can almost see it working, and we do get a lot of our power from hydroelectric.  But I think the government is either expecting quantum leap improvements in battery's or they are having an eco -fantasy.  British Columbia is a big place, with much of the landscape consisting of mountains . Towns in the Northern 2/3 of the province are very far apart.  Where would you recharge? Stand alone, middle of nowhere charging stations ?  Even gas is at times a problem in Northern B.C. with many warnings of long distances between filling stations.

 Just one other little thing, Winter. Once you leave the temperate oasis of the Vancouver and Victoria region you are facing anything from mild but true winter to near Artic conditions.  Is electric technology really going to be ready for weeks of 2 feet of blowing snow at -40 in just a decade or so ? Ah..the future, it's just so green !

 

Greg

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True. EV batties take a loss in driving range with cold weather. Some of what I've read says it can get to well over a 20% reduction as the cold not only effects the battery charge, there's the additional drain of power needed to supply cabin heat.

 

Paul.

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The batteries in the latest electric cars fail if they freeze. That is why they have electric heaters (run off the battery) to keep them warm. If your electric car is not plugged in it will shut down after a few days and if you try to charge it or  drive it the batteries blow up. The only cure is to tow it into a heated garage and let it warm up overnight, then recharge the batteries.

 

Then there is the question of what kind of heater your car will use in freezing weather. Electric heat will cut your battery life in half or worse.

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1 hour ago, auburnseeker said:

Not always so.  Demand for alcohol free fuel is low but it costs more.  Lots of time they charge more for stuff less used. 

 

You are confusing the issue.  First, the ethanol is subsidized (your tax dollars at work). Second, it's not the mainstream product, so a second distribution system is required. This increases costs.  We're not talking about a different type of gasoline, just the same one currently for sale. And finally, production of non-ethanol fuel is still less than demand, so price can be whatever the market will bear.  If demand goes down price goes down.  That's econ 101.

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Im with Steve on this.

 

We are all passionate about our old gas powered cars. 

I personally feel the switch to alternative fuels is inevitable.

I also thing outright ban on gasoline simply wont happen due to efforts by organizations like SEMA.

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From tractors to lawn mowers, big rigs and construction equipment there will be a need for fossil fuel into our foreseeable future.  What I do see happening is more alternative energy choices for NEW vehicle purchases.  Buying an EV will be a viable option and may after we are long gone (2040+) the option to buy a new gasoline vehicle may not exist.  The batteries are low in my crystal ball so I can’t give specific details on that prediction.

 

As for the cold weather comments on EVs, much of that is getting addressed in software, something IC engines don’t have much control over. Also research is ongoing to improve that issue especially as more companies get into the EV market.  Don’t expect the EV industry to say gosh, we’ll just have to live with that limitation.  Nope, science moves on to tackle this type of limitation with the prize of big $$$$ for the ones who solve it. Remember, cell phones don’t cost thousands of dollars and be the size of bricks anymore.

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So careful or they will only offer ethanol fuel if there isn't much need for any fuel.  

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1 hour ago, maok said:

 

WoW! The ignorance here is staggering.

Care to educate us then?

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3 hours ago, auburnseeker said:

Keep an eye in your own states as well.  This is the type of legislation passed through in the dark of night tucked in some emergency funding bill so no one dares Veto it.  

 

Oh, you mean like the Federal Reserve Act of 1913 ? 

 

You are spot on A.S. 👍

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Posted (edited)

Never going to happen with any sort of success. All it takes is to go out near any busy expressway and count the cars that go by in a five minute period, now imagine all of these cars need to stop and hook up to a recharging station every few hours for four hours. It would require massive recharging complexes every 20 miles to accommodate all of these vehicles. The naivety that drives this alternative fuel movement is fueled by ignorance of just how much energy is exists in a gallon of gasoline. It's going to be a very difficult fuel to replace with equal practicality and safety.

 

I agree with above poster, we will eventually transition away from fossil fuels, but it won't be with the electric car as we know it today.

 

The globalist progressive politicians that push this nonsense know it would never work with our capitalistic economy, their aim is socialism, universal basic income, small government provided housing and mass transit. In other words, they want control over every aspect of our lives.

 

The frightening thing is. how many folks in this country are willing to let them do that. These globalists need to be ran out of the country. Now get off my lawn :)

 

-Ron

Edited by Locomobile (see edit history)
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Norway is a very wealthy country due to oil revenue. Offshore drilling for one. Therefore they can afford to ban gas powered vehicles and subsidize electric cars.

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The first step in correcting California's air quality is get rid if the gas-belching bureaucrats in Sacramento.

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Posted (edited)
3 hours ago, Peter Gariepy said:

Im with Steve on this.

 

We are all passionate about our old gas powered cars. 

I personally feel the switch to alternative fuels is inevitable.

I also thing outright ban on gasoline simply wont happen due to efforts by organizations like SEMA.

 

I agree with you, but SEMA's influence on the issue pales in comparison to other market forces. Even the requirements of lawn and garden equipment are minuscule compared to other users.  The fleet of existing IC vehicles won't change overnight. That includes delivery trucks, motorcycles, boats, and aircraft in addition to automobiles.  Hydrocarbon fuels will be available for a long, long time. I'm definitely not losing any sleep over this.

 

Heck, lacquer paints were "banned" years ago.  I can still buy them easily.  Ironically, lacquer paints are only available in small quantities for consumer use to limit emissions of volatiles, yet I can buy five gallon drums of lacquer thinner all day long.  Isn't that the same volatiles?

Edited by joe_padavano (see edit history)
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