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California without gasoline-burning cars?


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How will this work?

 

No more car shows in California.

 

In California, a ban on the sale of internal-combustion cars is considered a fanciful idea. In fact, a bill to ban the sale of internal-combustion cars by 2040.

 

 

https://www.msn.com/en-us/money/markets/is-california-ready-to-ban-gas-powered-cars-not-yet-but-theyre-thinking-about-it/ar-AABtzk8?li=BBnb7Kz

 

 

Edited by nick8086 (see edit history)
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I guess there is a big push on this in Europe also .

 

What I do not understand is they are laying new pipelines all over the place there to bring oil to Europe .

 

Yet they they are going to ban the gas and oil cars .

European countries banning fossil fuel cars and switching to electric

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Norway was one of the first countries in the world to propose a ban on the sale of petrol and diesel cars by making the switch to electric-powered vehicles, with many nations following its lead. Road Traffic Technology takes a look at European countries banning fossil fuel cars and introducing electric incentives.

Edited by Mark Gregory (see edit history)
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Just a caution folks...legitimate subject but let's not let this thing go down the rat hole. 

 

SEMA and all the clubs with legislative activism will need to be diligent in contacting their legislators.  I imagine other industry groups will be active as well.  Most importantly, the car culture in California is strong and those folks need to call and write!

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A ban on the sale of NEW IC vehicles is NOT a retroactive ban on all IC vehicles.  Frankly, there hasn't been a new car built in the last 20 years that I would be remotely interested in owning. And think about this.  If the general public drives more non-gasoline vehicles, that leaves more oil for the rest of us. As demand goes down, so does price.  Win-win.

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Keep an eye in your own states as well.  This is the type of legislation passed through in the dark of night tucked in some emergency funding bill or save the orphans or something so no one dares Veto it.  Many countries citizenry don't get the say we are suppose to have. Lets hope we can hault crazy legislation before it takes hold. 

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Just now, joe_padavano said:

As demand goes down, so does price. 

Not always so.  Demand for alcohol free fuel is low but it costs more.  Lots of time they charge more for stuff less used. 

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Considering the number of times California has run out of electricity, compared with the number of times they have run out of gas, I don't know how it is going to work when they double the demand for electricity to run all the cars, trucks and buses.

Maybe they will put the homeless and illegals to work pulling rickshaws ( sarkylert)

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Electric cars cause more harm to the environment than gasoline cars. Mining for the battery is toxic. After the car is junk you have to deal with the toxic battery. Plus all the energy required to charge the car. Nobody talks about this ever.

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15 minutes ago, Brass is Best said:

Electric cars cause more harm to the environment than gasoline cars. Mining for the battery is toxic. After the car is junk you have to deal with the toxic battery. Plus all the energy required to charge the car. Nobody talks about this ever.

 

WoW! The ignorance here is staggering.

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43 minutes ago, Rusty_OToole said:

Considering the number of times California has run out of electricity, compared with the number of times they have run out of gas, I don't know how it is going to work when they double the demand for electricity to run all the cars, trucks and buses.

Maybe they will put the homeless and illegals to work pulling rickshaws ( sarkylert)

 My first thought, too.

 

Not only is California having brown outs at high- peak demand times, there's a proposal to cut off all power in areas that have days of high risk for forest fires.   Sounds like a State level case of the right hand is not talking to the left hand.

 

Paul

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Up here in British Columbia our provincial government is talking the same sort of thing. In urban Vancouver I can almost see it working, and we do get a lot of our power from hydroelectric.  But I think the government is either expecting quantum leap improvements in battery's or they are having an eco -fantasy.  British Columbia is a big place, with much of the landscape consisting of mountains . Towns in the Northern 2/3 of the province are very far apart.  Where would you recharge? Stand alone, middle of nowhere charging stations ?  Even gas is at times a problem in Northern B.C. with many warnings of long distances between filling stations.

 Just one other little thing, Winter. Once you leave the temperate oasis of the Vancouver and Victoria region you are facing anything from mild but true winter to near Artic conditions.  Is electric technology really going to be ready for weeks of 2 feet of blowing snow at -40 in just a decade or so ? Ah..the future, it's just so green !

 

Greg

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True. EV batties take a loss in driving range with cold weather. Some of what I've read says it can get to well over a 20% reduction as the cold not only effects the battery charge, there's the additional drain of power needed to supply cabin heat.

 

Paul.

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The batteries in the latest electric cars fail if they freeze. That is why they have electric heaters (run off the battery) to keep them warm. If your electric car is not plugged in it will shut down after a few days and if you try to charge it or  drive it the batteries blow up. The only cure is to tow it into a heated garage and let it warm up overnight, then recharge the batteries.

 

Then there is the question of what kind of heater your car will use in freezing weather. Electric heat will cut your battery life in half or worse.

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1 hour ago, auburnseeker said:

Not always so.  Demand for alcohol free fuel is low but it costs more.  Lots of time they charge more for stuff less used. 

 

You are confusing the issue.  First, the ethanol is subsidized (your tax dollars at work). Second, it's not the mainstream product, so a second distribution system is required. This increases costs.  We're not talking about a different type of gasoline, just the same one currently for sale. And finally, production of non-ethanol fuel is still less than demand, so price can be whatever the market will bear.  If demand goes down price goes down.  That's econ 101.

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Im with Steve on this.

 

We are all passionate about our old gas powered cars. 

I personally feel the switch to alternative fuels is inevitable.

I also thing outright ban on gasoline simply wont happen due to efforts by organizations like SEMA.

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From tractors to lawn mowers, big rigs and construction equipment there will be a need for fossil fuel into our foreseeable future.  What I do see happening is more alternative energy choices for NEW vehicle purchases.  Buying an EV will be a viable option and may after we are long gone (2040+) the option to buy a new gasoline vehicle may not exist.  The batteries are low in my crystal ball so I can’t give specific details on that prediction.

 

As for the cold weather comments on EVs, much of that is getting addressed in software, something IC engines don’t have much control over. Also research is ongoing to improve that issue especially as more companies get into the EV market.  Don’t expect the EV industry to say gosh, we’ll just have to live with that limitation.  Nope, science moves on to tackle this type of limitation with the prize of big $$$$ for the ones who solve it. Remember, cell phones don’t cost thousands of dollars and be the size of bricks anymore.

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3 hours ago, auburnseeker said:

Keep an eye in your own states as well.  This is the type of legislation passed through in the dark of night tucked in some emergency funding bill so no one dares Veto it.  

 

Oh, you mean like the Federal Reserve Act of 1913 ? 

 

You are spot on A.S. 👍

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Never going to happen with any sort of success. All it takes is to go out near any busy expressway and count the cars that go by in a five minute period, now imagine all of these cars need to stop and hook up to a recharging station every few hours for four hours. It would require massive recharging complexes every 20 miles to accommodate all of these vehicles. The naivety that drives this alternative fuel movement is fueled by ignorance of just how much energy is exists in a gallon of gasoline. It's going to be a very difficult fuel to replace with equal practicality and safety.

 

I agree with above poster, we will eventually transition away from fossil fuels, but it won't be with the electric car as we know it today.

 

The globalist progressive politicians that push this nonsense know it would never work with our capitalistic economy, their aim is socialism, universal basic income, small government provided housing and mass transit. In other words, they want control over every aspect of our lives.

 

The frightening thing is. how many folks in this country are willing to let them do that. These globalists need to be ran out of the country. Now get off my lawn :)

 

-Ron

Edited by Locomobile (see edit history)
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Norway is a very wealthy country due to oil revenue. Offshore drilling for one. Therefore they can afford to ban gas powered vehicles and subsidize electric cars.

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3 hours ago, Peter Gariepy said:

Im with Steve on this.

 

We are all passionate about our old gas powered cars. 

I personally feel the switch to alternative fuels is inevitable.

I also thing outright ban on gasoline simply wont happen due to efforts by organizations like SEMA.

 

I agree with you, but SEMA's influence on the issue pales in comparison to other market forces. Even the requirements of lawn and garden equipment are minuscule compared to other users.  The fleet of existing IC vehicles won't change overnight. That includes delivery trucks, motorcycles, boats, and aircraft in addition to automobiles.  Hydrocarbon fuels will be available for a long, long time. I'm definitely not losing any sleep over this.

 

Heck, lacquer paints were "banned" years ago.  I can still buy them easily.  Ironically, lacquer paints are only available in small quantities for consumer use to limit emissions of volatiles, yet I can buy five gallon drums of lacquer thinner all day long.  Isn't that the same volatiles?

Edited by joe_padavano (see edit history)
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6 hours ago, Rusty_OToole said:

Considering the number of times California has run out of electricity, compared with the number of times they have run out of gas, I don't know how it is going to work when they double the demand for electricity to run all the cars, trucks and buses.

Maybe they will put the homeless and illegals to work pulling rickshaws ( sarkylert)

 

Just a minor point, but it looks like only about 20% of California's energy consumption is currently in the form of gasoline. 

https://www.eia.gov/state/?sid=CA#tabs-1

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5 hours ago, mike6024 said:

Norway is a very wealthy country due to oil revenue. Offshore drilling for one. Therefore they can afford to ban gas powered vehicles and subsidize electric cars.

 

Yep, there is always a reason these programs or something close to it will work in those countries. The folks that push this socialist movement like to use these Nordic countries as an example. Sweden officials issued a statement a while back for these progressives regarding what they are suggesting here in the US that it is nothing like what they have there. In reality what they have is more capitalistic than socialist.

 

The biggest problem with the validity of these comparisons, none of these countries suggested have the social ills that the US is enduring. Our major cities are poverty ridden drug infested havens of crime, I live next door to Detroit, border is like five minutes away, it is an entirely different world over there. 60 years of socialistic policies have destroyed that city. Another example of where socialism didn't work.

 

The people of California need to stand up to this oppressive nonsense.

 

-Ron

Edited by Locomobile (see edit history)
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Here is the cover of "Car Life" magazine from

October 1959.  One of the stories they feature is titled,

"Will the U. S. Make Your Car Illegal?"  I don't have the

actual issue or article, but doesn't it sound familiar even

60 years later?

 

Hmm...The more things change, the more they stay the same---

 

1959-10.jpg

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6 hours ago, Pete O said:

Care to educate us then?

 

Change, it's the only constant in the universe. The new generations will make you dinosaurs change, whether you like it or not. And price.

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26 minutes ago, maok said:

The new generations will make you dinosaurs change, whether you like it or not. And price.

Unless we properly teach them history (the way it actually happened and not the homogenized altered versions they are pushing) and how to think for themselves not preach what they are taught.

It takes a little life experience to help them understand that many haven't gotten yet.  

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4 hours ago, JamesR said:

Hey whatever happened to California's push to secede from the union a year or two ago? They gave up too early.

They abandoned that one and have been trying to split the state into three states so that they get more representation in the federal government.

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1 hour ago, maok said:

Change, it's the only constant in the universe.

 

I worked for a large company that got bought out, immediately the new owners began cutting and taking away everything they could, I complained, they said "The problem is, you don't like change" I replied "I welcome change as long as it's for the better, this isn't" I quit soon afterwards. I had one of those jobs that was very intricate and took about two years to learn, they begged me to come back. Last I heard, they gave the employees everything back and more, they were losing too many trained people.

 

As far as change being the only constant, when I was younger I used to say that as well, I don't now though. Read books as old as the Bible, people haven't changed at all in 2000 years, we've been using the fossil fueled piston engine since the late 1700's invented by Newcomen and will most likely continue to do so for many centuries, "better" ideas have came and went, but the best idea has survived. Sure there has been an array of gadgets like cell phones and computers, but none has really changed anything in a significant way, a significant fundamental change in mankind. When it comes right down to basic life, not much has really changed, because we humans never do. We just have more things to play with now.

 

1 hour ago, maok said:

The new generations will make you dinosaurs change, whether you like it or not.

 

I have a feeling these "new generations" have a rude awakening coming. We Americans don't like to be told what to do. This Republic was founded on individual sovereignty and liberty. It's not a Democracy, it's a Republic. As soon as the AOC gestapo shows up at our homes and tells us we have to upgrade or move, or tries to take our guns, the fight is going to be on.

 

-Ron

 

 

 

 

Edited by Locomobile (see edit history)
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44 minutes ago, auburnseeker said:

Unless we properly teach them history (the way it actually happened and not the homogenized altered versions they are pushing) and how to think for themselves not preach what they are taught.

It takes a little life experience to help them understand that many haven't gotten yet.  

 

Their rear vision mirror is a very small one, and they tend not to look at it much, and as you say, 'think for themselves', Musk and Zuckerberg are two examples, they can only do that with a clear windscreen.

If you wish to teach 'your' side of the story then I suggest the old generations start influencing the future - the digital media. The young have all the data in their pockets, all  sides of the story is easily accessible to them. Rupert Murdoch's control is being taken away.

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6 minutes ago, maok said:

Rupert Murdoch's control is being taken away.

 

I disagree. The new wild west known as the internet is on the fast track to being tamed.  Sectors of the US Government is doing everything it can to take full control of the internet. Not sure where you get your news, but the US and many other countries have passed several bills regarding cyber related issues. The UK as I understand it have some of the strictest laws. Nope, this big playground we've all enjoyed for the last 20 years is about to become another exclusive politically correct media mouthpiece. They already have AI software that scans webpages and transcribed voice recordings for "hate speech", you know,  anything that runs counter to the liberal agenda?

 

14 minutes ago, maok said:

The young have all the data in their pockets, all  sides of the story is easily accessible to them.

 

And that is why, no more of this subversive free thinking malarkey, they will control what the "young" read and hear just as is happening with our schools and universities.

 

-Ron

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I read in one of the local papers that the charging stations require 40-50 amps. If every house needs a service upgrade, will the local utility be able to handle the additional load? Will we need more coal fired generators to meet the demand? Do we really need to push electric cars? Batteries last about 7 years and will cost between $1 to $2K for a replacement. What do we do with all the batteries, nobody want's a battery recycling plant near them. Cars are running cleaner every year. My VW Alltrak gets about 35 MPG and many cars get more. Perhaps Hy-Breds, all electric I don't know, not in my lifetime. 

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I've had people, some here in fact, tell me I don't like change simply because I am not on board with the latest 'green' mandate.

I work in the IT infrastructure field, so you can't tell me I fear technology or change. There may not be any other industry that changes as quickly as the IT field does.

What I don't like is a government entity mandating the change.

I don't care what that change is, when the government mandates the change it will never be what is best for the industry or the consumer.

 

I love the new gadgets and tech in modern cars. Granted, the more tech you have the more there is to go wrong but with the proper tools it is not that difficult to troubleshoot.

But all the modern tech also makes me appreciate prewar cars all the more.

Prewar automotive tech is amazing given the time in which it was introduced and that is amazing in its own right.

Higher end cars like Pierce Arrow had adjustable ride control decades and decades before it became mainstream.

Driving a prewar car is most likely the closest I will ever get to being in a time machine.

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There is a very good chance that California, being the most progressive state, will be the 1st state to follow other countries around the world to ban ICE vehicles, how they go about it will be interesting.

When the Chinese start mass producing cheap electric cars, similar to what the Japanese did in the 70's/80's, the snowballing will start. The opportunities for the future thinkers will be endless. Vehicle 'ownership' will not be the same as the past.

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