MrILO

Possible purchase of a Riviera 65 GS

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So that I understand it well: ALL GS come with the Super Wildcat dual four barrel engine, but the same engine could be ordered separately from the GS option, so that 454 cars 'not GS' were made with the Super Wildcat dual four barrel engine.

Question: did these 454 cars also come with the BS transmission?

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45 minutes ago, MrILO said:

So that I understand it well: ALL GS come with the Super Wildcat dual four barrel engine, but the same engine could be ordered separately from the GS option, so that 454 cars 'not GS' were made with the Super Wildcat dual four barrel engine.

Question: did these 454 cars also come with the BS transmission?

 

Yes, ordering the GS "option", the car came with the LX dual four barrel engine, the BS transmission, and a posi differential.

 

Yes, there were 454 non-GS Rivieras built with the LX engine.

 

No, the non-GS LX engine Riv had the BT transmission, the same transmission that came with the optional single four barrel 425, and the standard engine 401 cars have a BR transmission.

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I've been looking online and came across a couple of cars that definitely look too good, i.e. very suspicious.

The price is incorrect - and, as I was advised by a member via PM, the details are too scant to be credible.

One is this

https://usclassifieds4all.com/details.php?id=2307

 

No, I'm not going to send money via Western Union (I almost fell for that trick once, lesson learned) or otherwise :)

 

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2 hours ago, MrILO said:

I've been looking online and came across a couple of cars that definitely look too good, i.e. very suspicious.

The price is incorrect - and, as I was advised by a member via PM, the details are too scant to be credible.

One is this

https://usclassifieds4all.com/details.php?id=2307

 

No, I'm not going to send money via Western Union (I almost fell for that trick once, lesson learned) or otherwise :)

 

The asking price tells me it is a bogus offering unless they are totally unaware of what they have.

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If you'll go to the USAClassifieds web site, you'll see other questionable cars.  The same 65 GS listed in two different areas of the country for ridiculously different prices; like $20K difference.

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I am going to check out a 1967 Riviera GS this coming weekend. Long drive with my wife,

The seller is a collector thinning out his stable. Besides, over the phone I have the impression that he's a straight person.

 

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2 hours ago, MrILO said:

I am going to check out a 1967 Riviera GS this coming weekend.

 

For starters, it better have a "Star Wars" air cleaner on the engine...

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Cornering lights and 4 notes! Notice the factory reinforcement behind the 4 note mount....nice,

Tom

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4 hours ago, MrILO said:

It does.

No A/C, but factory disc brakes.

STarWars.jpg.4ef705da9112f272c7b2649462578897.jpg

 

 

 

 

Factory disk brakes because you've seen the rotors/calipers or because there's a dual reservoir master cylinder.  Usually a disk brake equipped car will have a larger reservoir up front.  All 67 Rivieras came with dual reservoir master cylinders. The one pictured is the one RockAuto sells for a 67 Riviera equipped with disk/drum brakes

 

*101521-RIT__ra_m.jpg.2f04cb299e63e019b254db40f7d53cd3.jpg

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Since it is my understanding that you can't buy any front rotors for a 67 disc brake car, wouldn't that make it

a lot less desirable than the drum setup?.......something like ten times less desirable, since the drum brakes stop the car just fine.

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Posted (edited)

Rotors --> discs? Discs + center hub? Lost in translation here. Sorry. What are the rotors exactly in English?

From what I was told, the owner had to rebuild the front disc brakes, and as no spare parts were found, he had to resort to specialized shop in Germany. I understand it was quite difficult.

 

Edited by MrILO (see edit history)

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I am not familiar with this setup, I just know I've been told you can't get any parts to fix it. Perhaps a 67 Riviera owner

can chime in. Assuming this is the case, a drum brake car would be the more desirable car to purchase.

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Posted (edited)

1967 Rivieras came equipped with four wheel drum power bakes as standard equipment.  An option was front disk brakes.  In 67, Buick started using dual reservoir master cylinders for both applications - it is a safety factor, one system for the front brakes, one system for the rear brakes.

 

Front drum brakes: a drum rotates on the spindle. Inside the drum are shoes. When you step on the brake pedal, hydraulic fluid exerts pressure on the shoes and they expand inside the drum creating friction between the shoe and the drum causing the car to stop. The front drums on these Buicks are big,  finned,  and made of aluminum.  Lots of surface area for braking power and aluminum for heat disspation.

 

jamco-66-69-buick-riviera-disc-brake-kit-install-finned-aluminum-drum-04.thumb.jpg.b6d675bb1d65d533cc1333388a483ed3.jpg

 

Disk brakes: consist of a rotor which rotates on the spindle. A caliper has pads in it that clamp down on the rotor when hydraulic pressure is applied causing the friction.  Disk brakes have less tendency to fade in sustained applications. i.e. towing a trailer and going down a steep grade.  

jamco-66-69-buick-riviera-disc-brake-kit-install-flex-line-install-15.thumb.jpg.8df0802b0c9ac6a670cf721536223e4a.jpg

 Buicks with aluminum drums will stop just as effectively as disk brakes under almost all circumstances.  Can't say the same for cast iron drums with no cooling fins.

 

Center hubs have nothing to do with brakes, only wheel applications on 63 and 64 Rivieras.

 

My concern is that disk brakes require more pressure to work effectively and require more fluid to exert this pressure. Hence the need for a larger reservoir to exert the pressure on the disk brake setup.  The master cylinder on the car in the pictures appears to have two reservoirs of the same size.

Edited by RivNut (see edit history)
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Posted (edited)

Thanks for the explanation. It's the word 'rotor' that I didn't understand. Modern racing discs are sometimes made in two parts (the 'disc' itself and what I called the center hub in my post, such as this from Brembo) - as I didn't understand the word 'rotor' I was trying to understand the meaning in English. I did not know that what in Italian is 'disco' would be translated in 'rotor'. Sorry for the confusion.

 

I will check the reservoirs. If I'm not wrong though, the pressure should rather be a function of the diameter of the brake pump cylinder: the smaller the diameter of the main cylinder, the higher the pressure exerted (normal component of force divided by surface - if force remains the same and you reduce the surface using a smaller cyclinder, pressure increases). I wonder if the brake pump is the same across the two setups (drums vs discs) , but this is only my own technical curiosity...

Edited by MrILO (see edit history)

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8 hours ago, MrILO said:

It does.

No A/C, but factory disc brakes.

STarWars.jpg.4ef705da9112f272c7b2649462578897.jpg

 

 

 

STarWars2.jpg

STarWars3.jpg

Nice. It looks black? I have a 68 with front disc brakes from factory and the main thing that you cannot find is replacement rotors, unless out of a graveyard. Im assuming it has the posi differential being a GS? I don't see the screw top on the air cleaner.

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The car is green (JJ code).

Thanks for the information regarding the screw top on the air cleaner.

About the differential and transmission, according to the owner the car has the proper rear diff and transmission.
I also understand from another post on this forum that all 67-70 Rivieras had the same transmission regardless of GS code.
This link and some hours now spent reading this forum makes me think the rear ratio should be 3.42 and transmission an ST400.

So, the rear diff - if any markings are present and I can sneak under the car - should show it.  Or not?

 

STarWars5.jpg

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The transmission is definitely an ST400, no other transmission was available in '66 behind the "nailhead."  The aluminum plate on the passenger's side of the transmission will tell you the year and the code.  The code will tell you a little more about the transmission.  Things like is it a transmission for a floor shift car or a console shift car.  Sometimes it will even tell you the driving gear for the speedometer so you know what gear ratio is in the rear end.  Best way to figure out the rear end  is to compare the number of times the driveshaft rotates compared to the number of times the wheel goes around.  3 .42 will be just shy of 3 1/2 times; 3.07 will be just a hair over 3 times.  Those are your only two choices unless someone did some special ordering.

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22 minutes ago, RivNut said:

The transmission is definitely an ST400, no other transmission was available in '66 behind the "nailhead."  The aluminum plate on the passenger's side of the transmission will tell you the year and the code.  The code will tell you a little more about the transmission.  Things like is it a transmission for a floor shift car or a console shift car.  Sometimes it will even tell you the driving gear for the speedometer so you know what gear ratio is in the rear end.  Best way to figure out the rear end  is to compare the number of times the driveshaft rotates compared to the number of times the wheel goes around.  3 .42 will be just shy of 3 1/2 times; 3.07 will be just a hair over 3 times.  Those are your only two choices unless someone did some special ordering.

Ed,

  The car in question is a `67 model

Tom

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What`s the dealio with the "Riviera" script on the trunk lid? Looks kinda wanky,

Tom

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1 minute ago, 1965rivgs said:

Ed,

  The car in question is a `67 model

Tom

Gotcha.  Thanks Tom

 

To whomever: it's still an ST400. (ST400 is Buick terminology for the Turbo-hydromatic 400 developed for General Motors.) In 1967 it became a corporate transmission and shared the same bellhousing pattern with Oldsmobile and Pontiac.  It is commonly referred to as the BOP bellhousing. A 1967 Riviera should have the BT code. No break downs as to applications in the list I used as a reference

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17 minutes ago, 1965rivgs said:

What`s the dealio with the "Riviera" script on the trunk lid? Looks kinda wanky,

Tom

"Wanky" Great word for describing the angle of the script.

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12 hours ago, 1965rivgs said:

What`s the dealio with the "Riviera" script on the trunk lid? Looks kinda wanky,

Tom

reflectors on the bumper look a little wanky as well, lol

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