Dynaflash8

Is hobby interest in pre-WWII cars Dying?

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Posted (edited)
16 hours ago, kfle said:

This is absolutely the most important thing.  We launched the website in October and I have been shocked by how many people visit and are searching for information.  With only 77 known cars to exist and a relatively obscure brand, it is easy to assume that you would have to be an owner to want to search for information or be interested in Cole.  Well, here are the stats for the site since launch in October as of this morning:

 

The biggest challenge is to get your search engine optimization right with Google and others.  We have worked on this and have risen in the search rankings when someone searches for Cole motor car company or a specific year or make of a Cole car.  The site is not popping up when people search in Google and this started happening in probably March or so.  A good example of this is from October to the Dec 31 2018, our biggest referrer was Facebook with sending 109 visitors to the website and only 57 visitors coming from search engines.  In 2019 since about March we have 278 visitors coming from Search engines like Google and about 87 from Facebook and 22 from Wikipedia.  We are now averaging 3 visitors per day from search engines so it is picking up.  

 

That's awesome.   Really, I think you're doing it perfectly.  A few years back I was very interested in buying a 1921 HCS 5-passenger touring, and I was surprised about how little there was online about the cars. They were really cool: HCS stands for Harry C. Stutz, and he started HCS after he left Stutz.  They're high-end cars from the early 20s that are pretty similar to Stutzes.  They are Full Classics, too, although I don't think they were back when I was thinking of buying one.   Anyway, I remember thinking that if I bought the car I would want to create a website and a registry and do what I could to raise awareness of the car and link owners -- pretty much exactly what you did for the Cole.  But I didn't buy the car, so it never happened.

 

 

Edited by 1935Packard (see edit history)
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Posted (edited)
17 hours ago, 1912Staver said:

One big part of the organized,  dues paying sort of club as opposed to the instant information, virtual club is liability insurance.

AACA has liability insurance for all of its members while attending an AACA event or show.  Of course it is backup insurance to your own liability insurance.  Attending Cruise-ins that are out there unassociated with an organized club such as AACA opens you to all sorts of liability.  Another thing, who do you think sponsors this thread and all on the other threads you participate in here on this web site.  It is AACA.

Edited by Dynaflash8 (see edit history)
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10 hours ago, hidden_hunter said:

 

I fund my hobby doing pretty much exactly that, I work in IT and do a lot of my work via my mobile. 

 

Then again, not many people in there 30’s have 97 year old cars 🤔

 

It certainly hasn’t been a quick process, but I’ve learned a lot. I’ve done all of the assembly work at home (machine work I don’t have the equipment for) including new rings, checking all the bearings and replacing a damaged top cover (that holds the Cam)

Another way to fund a restoration is buying and selling car parts, either on eBay or as a vendor at big flea markets (called by different names in different parts of the country).  I never used the money I made that way in my regular household funding.  Somebody mentioned budgeting.  Budgeting correctly can do miracles for a person.

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Posted (edited)
8 hours ago, auburnseeker said:

What I pay in Property tax every year I could buy a new Full size 4 wheel drive extended cab Pickup every 5 years. 

I would say move, but there are many reasons people can't move.....job or job specialties, and so on.  Even the cost of moving is more than the cost of a good old car.  I was just quoted $14,000 to move 200 miles (of course if we weren't 80 and 79 we could do a lot of that in our car trailer!)

If I wanted to go back to Virginia the cost was $18,500 (900 miles).  That is the only good thing about Florida in my opinion....no state income tax.  On the other hand real estate tax was half of what I pay in Florida when I lived in rural Virginia.....I stress rural.

Edited by Dynaflash8 (see edit history)

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8 hours ago, zepher said:

Cost of living varies greatly from state to state, city to city.

If you make in the low 6 figures in So Cal you can barely afford a decent neighborhood and one collector car.

But move that income to somewhere like Kentucky and you're rolling in the dough.

  Which is why people shouldn’t live in places like that if they aren’t making enough.  It’s all a choice and where they put their priorities.  I chose a decent career in a place where my dollar goes farther.  

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8 hours ago, auburnseeker said:

What I pay in Property tax every year I could buy a new Full size 4 wheel drive extended cab Pickup every 5 years. 

 

But your property is amazing, at least what you have shown us in your shop thread.  It makes more sense to have an amazing property than, say, a depreciating truck.  I see that backwards situation all the time.  We all do.  Someone with higher car payments than their house.  That’s a quick way to get nowhere.

 

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I have an interest in pre WWII cars.  The earlier the better!  However, a few stumbling blocks here:

 

1.  Property & property taxes.  Believe me, if I could be retired, I would be!  Retirement occurs way too late in this country, which seems contradictory to a well educated workforce in an environment where very little is manufactured.  But that's the subject matter of a thread all its own.  Which means I need a job and have to live where I work.  I simply cannot find anything I can afford on my salary that allows for more than a small lot and a 2 bay garage.  The few places I can find with more space need a ton of work, so they aren't really affordable in the end, and the wife ain't happy. .

 

2.  The wife ain't happy.  Doesn't want to look at cars that often aren't running...

 

3.  I am self taught in all I do.  Which means that most of the time nothing runs, and I spend a lot of time figuring out how to get anything to run.

 

4.  I'm not retired.  Which means I don't have a lot of free time.  Which means I spend more time than I have to get something to run...and still it doesn't run.  And the wife ain't happy...

 

Believe me, if I could have a huge barn full of pre WWII cars I would!

 

I have this recurring dream.  The year is 1946.  I survived WWII.  All these early cars are cheap and unwanted.  Real estate is cheap, for lots of it.  Jobs are plentiful and wages actually rise substantially from year to year <Sigh>

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That's a Merc made in the last century as opposed to the blue one in my sig. It helps to have a complete one to compare while going through a project and I like retractibles. The difference is my '01 is an For me being a Floridian has a lot more advantages than just no income tax (because few in Florida have incomes other than retirement). No rust is one that matters to me and I live far enough inland for the storms to be mitigated and no salt in the air. Just saw gas at $2.35 for regular. And a beach vacation is about 2 hours away when wanted. After a strange May temperatures are in the high 80s (often in summer we are cooler than other places.

 

Also have a 2,000 sq ft house with 2,000 sq ft of garage in a development with sidewalks & a crow mile from Universal studios. I like living in a resort. Have a 3% mortgage mainly as a hedge against inflation. After 35 years with a major warmonger have a comfortable retirement.

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2 hours ago, 39BuickEight said:

But your property is amazing, at least what you have shown us in your shop thread.  It makes more sense to have an amazing property than, say, a depreciating truck.  I see that backwards situation all the time.  We all do.  Someone with higher car payments than their house.  That’s a quick way to get nowhere.

 

We live as cheaply as possible.  The main reason we have such a nice piece of property.

We go out for dinner maybe 3 or 4 times a year (usually using gift cards someone gave us) Excluding Hershey, which I can write off as a business trip,  but then again we eat at Soda Jerks.  Using points on a business credit card I have (that I pay off monthly)  we are even staying for free in Hershey this year. 

The wife is a notorious Couponer and tries to buy everything on sale as well. 

 We chose to live here because this is where my wife wanted to live (main reason and Hard to argue with that without an Attorney, ) and it was close to family,  though honestly not close enough,  so we don't end up doing much with them because they are all over an hour to 3 hours away.  The closest one I really got along with well divorced and moved away a year or two after we moved here. 

I drive a 13 year old truck.,  The wife's is newer but when you buy a Toyota in the Northeast,  you buy new or pay as much for a 4 year old one with 50KMI and rust.  Liquidated an old car and paid cash for hers so no payments there.   Our only payment is the mortgage and related expenses (property tax, Insurance etc. )  Fortunately we even have much of that paid off and the building project is paid for to date.  You don't get ahead paying someone else interest.   

As you mentioned I did look at properties further south this winter when it was really drawing on,  but with our set up it's hard to find anything comparable that I really liked, again in a price range we could sell ours and buy in at the point where we are at.  

 

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24 minutes ago, auburnseeker said:

We live as cheaply as possible.  The main reason we have such a nice piece of property.

We go out for dinner maybe 3 or 4 times a year (usually using gift cards someone gave us) Excluding Hershey, which I can write off as a business trip,  but then again we eat at Soda Jerks.  Using points on a business credit card I have (that I pay off monthly)  we are even staying for free in Hershey this year. 

The wife is a notorious Couponer and tries to buy everything on sale as well. 

 We chose to live here because this is where my wife wanted to live (main reason and Hard to argue with that without an Attorney, ) and it was close to family,  though honestly not close enough,  so we don't end up doing much with them because they are all over an hour to 3 hours away.  The closest one I really got along with well divorced and moved away a year or two after we moved here. 

I drive a 13 year old truck.,  The wife's is newer but when you buy a Toyota in the Northeast,  you buy new or pay as much for a 4 year old one with 50KMI and rust.  Liquidated an old car and paid cash for hers so no payments there.   Our only payment is the mortgage and related expenses (property tax, Insurance etc. )  Fortunately we even have much of that paid off and the building project is paid for to date.  You don't get ahead paying someone else interest.   

As you mentioned I did look at properties further south this winter when it was really drawing on,  but with our set up it's hard to find anything comparable that I really liked, again in a price range we could sell ours and buy in at the point where we are at.  

 

 

You are a man after my own heart and should be an insperation to the majority of folks drowning in housing and credit card debt. But likely you won't be to the " I want it and I want it NOW " people.............Bob

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My Daughter went to school at St. Lawrence U. Where is the restaurant east of Oswego??

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Posted (edited)
3 hours ago, 39BuickEight said:

  Which is why people shouldn’t live in places like that if they aren’t making enough.  It’s all a choice and where they put their priorities.  I chose a decent career in a place where my dollar goes farther.  

Saw Zephyr mention Kentucky and as an FYI best looking into Kentucky personal property tax as historically has been a reason why so few collector cars are in the State.

Edited by John_Mereness (see edit history)

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2 minutes ago, John_Mereness said:

Saw Zephyr mention Kentucky and as an FYI best looking into Kentucky personal property tax as historically has been a reason why so few collector cars are in the State.

Taxes are really low here.  The reason there aren’t as many cars is because of the population and general content among many to live paycheck to paycheck.  When you are the opposite of that, it works well for stretching a dollar.

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48 minutes ago, auburnseeker said:

We live as cheaply as possible.  The main reason we have such a nice piece of property.

We go out for dinner maybe 3 or 4 times a year (usually using gift cards someone gave us) Excluding Hershey, which I can write off as a business trip,  but then again we eat at Soda Jerks.  Using points on a business credit card I have (that I pay off monthly)  we are even staying for free in Hershey this year. 

The wife is a notorious Couponer and tries to buy everything on sale as well. 

 We chose to live here because this is where my wife wanted to live (main reason and Hard to argue with that without an Attorney, ) and it was close to family,  though honestly not close enough,  so we don't end up doing much with them because they are all over an hour to 3 hours away.  The closest one I really got along with well divorced and moved away a year or two after we moved here. 

I drive a 13 year old truck.,  The wife's is newer but when you buy a Toyota in the Northeast,  you buy new or pay as much for a 4 year old one with 50KMI and rust.  Liquidated an old car and paid cash for hers so no payments there.   Our only payment is the mortgage and related expenses (property tax, Insurance etc. )  Fortunately we even have much of that paid off and the building project is paid for to date.  You don't get ahead paying someone else interest.   

As you mentioned I did look at properties further south this winter when it was really drawing on,  but with our set up it's hard to find anything comparable that I really liked, again in a price range we could sell ours and buy in at the point where we are at.  

 

Sounds familiar.  Our daily is a 2002 with no intent to swap it out.  We grocery shop with a meal list on payday every 2 weeks and spend right at $250 every 2 weeks to feed the entire family.  We don’t ever eat out either unless we are on vacation.  We do take 2 weeks worth of great vacations and several camping trips per year.  That’s all budgeted.  We don’t go to movies when they are soon  $1.49 at Red Box.  I tell the kids we can eat McDonalds and Five Guys every week and go see new movies or we can go to Disney.  They get it.

 

My collector car spending/restoration budget and practices are well documented on here.  I fully restored my car, paint, interior, and all, for less than $15,000 and I still have a few thousand in extra parts to sell.

 

I have a rule, I don’t buy anything I don’t truly need unless I can resell for the same or more.  I bought our old pop up camper for $2500 4 years ago that I am selling for $4000.  The new used one I bought Friday books for $13,300 and I paid $8700.  I can use it for 5 years and still come out even/ahead.  

 

The are ways to participate in this great hobby of a person puts it as a priority.  If not, that’s ok, but don’t choose to spend on other things and then say the hobby it too expensive.  It’s always a choice.   We all make different ones.

 

 

 

 

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1 hour ago, mrcvs said:

I have an interest in pre WWII cars.  The earlier the better!  However, a few stumbling blocks here:

 

1.  Property & property taxes.  Believe me, if I could be retired, I would be!  Retirement occurs way too late in this country, which seems contradictory to a well educated workforce in an environment where very little is manufactured.  But that's the subject matter of a thread all its own.  Which means I need a job and have to live where I work.  I simply cannot find anything I can afford on my salary that allows for more than a small lot and a 2 bay garage.  The few places I can find with more space need a ton of work, so they aren't really affordable in the end, and the wife ain't happy. .

 

2.  The wife ain't happy.  Doesn't want to look at cars that often aren't running...

 

3.  I am self taught in all I do.  Which means that most of the time nothing runs, and I spend a lot of time figuring out how to get anything to run.

 

4.  I'm not retired.  Which means I don't have a lot of free time.  Which means I spend more time than I have to get something to run...and still it doesn't run.  And the wife ain't happy...

 

Believe me, if I could have a huge barn full of pre WWII cars I would!

 

I have this recurring dream.  The year is 1946.  I survived WWII.  All these early cars are cheap and unwanted.  Real estate is cheap, for lots of it.  Jobs are plentiful and wages actually rise substantially from year to year <Sigh>

It takes a lot of planning and budgeting.  I was born in 1938, didn't go to college, stayed 37 years in a job I didn't my first and only job after high school.  You do something extra like buy & sell old car parts, play in a band, something you can do and keep the money separate, and then pick a car I like that most others don't like that runs.  Forget how it looks.  Fix it up over however many years it takes.  I started on mine in 1963 and finished it in 1981.  It's still in my garage, and in the picture to the left.  As for the two car garage, well I lengthened this one in Florida for two extra bays.  Not perfect..........I have  to move out a modern car to get one of the old ones out.  But it was doable.  Everybody has a different set of obstacles to overcome, but it can be done.

 

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2 hours ago, padgett said:

That's a Merc made in the last century as opposed to the blue one in my sig. It helps to have a complete one to compare while going through a project and I like retractibles. The difference is my '01 is an For me being a Floridian has a lot more advantages than just no income tax (because few in Florida have incomes other than retirement). No rust is one that matters to me and I live far enough inland for the storms to be mitigated and no salt in the air. Just saw gas at $2.35 for regular. And a beach vacation is about 2 hours away when wanted. After a strange May temperatures are in the high 80s (often in summer we are cooler than other places.

 

Also have a 2,000 sq ft house with 2,000 sq ft of garage in a development with sidewalks & a crow mile from Universal studios. I like living in a resort. Have a 3% mortgage mainly as a hedge against inflation. After 35 years with a major warmonger have a comfortable retirement.

Sounds like Sebring.....89-100 miles to both coasts, Orlando & Tampa; 155 to Miami.  And it's the deadest place this side of sitting hours in an empty room.  I have everything you've mentioned except your blue car, but mine is a new Chrysler instead and a red hot 2103 Dodge Charger.

It's also the same 80-100 miles to any real hospital where you can get any serious surgery done like a heart valve transplant through the leg.  Well, that was true in Montross, VA too.  Thee is no old car activity, only cruise-ins with modifieds and then only in the fall, winter, and spring.  But we did have decent old car activity and a working club in Montross, VA where car insurance wasn't "no-fault" and car insurance for 3 modern vehicles was $1300.  Of course there was still snow.  So, sounds like someplace like Lake City, FL is most like Montross to me, except there is no snow.

Going 100 miles to Orlando to see the cardiac surgeon took nearly 3 hours through world class awful traffic on I-4.

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Posted (edited)

I bought my house in southern California in 1988 for $120,000 and sold it in 2001 for $153,000. Wow, did I sell too soon. It was a SMALL 2 bedroom 1 bath with a carport, something like this one in the picture.

Photo of 4612 W 160th St, Lawndale, CA 90260

 

$570,000 (Pending)
  Est. Payment $2,191/mo

4612 W 160th St, Lawndale, CA 90260

  • 2 beds
  • 1 bath
  • 675 sq ft
  • 5,827 sqft lot

Image result for 4207 154th street lawndale, CA

 

That was my actual house, the one with the palm tree. It is not on the market now. 680 Square feet. 4,500 square foot lot.

 

Edited by mike6024 (see edit history)

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19 hours ago, TerryB said:

Mercedes Benz

 

The other brands you mentioned I would need to see the logo on the front.  I’m 67 yrs old.

I'll be 69 in December so I guess age has it advantages, joining the hobby when I was 10 also helped. . Bob 

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1 hour ago, mike6024 said:

Image result for 4207 154th street lawndale, CA

That was my actual house, the one with the palm tree. It is not on the market now. 680 Square feet. 4,500 square foot lot.

 

For those living in high-cost areas, may I suggest

small-town Pennsylvania?  Come to a state where

antique cars are respected, there are plenty of 

country roads for driving, and where the cost of living 

is reasonable.  Here's a typical small house gleaned from

the internet:  3 bedrooms, 2 baths, $139,000.  The perfect

size for a retired couple!  Property taxes for this house are

about $2000 a year.  With the money you save, you

could buy a Ford Model A and a Duesenberg Model A:

 

ISuc16t1tayz2z0000000000.jpg

 

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Posted (edited)
On 6/15/2019 at 11:12 AM, padgett said:

Still think the hobby is more diluting than waning, there are just so many more choices. Take my current no-rush project (still in collecting parts stage & two in local yards). No rust or dents, all glass intact, runs and drives, some assembly required, under a grand (under $100 in 1960 and would have been a '40 then) invested.

passide800.jpg

 

I don't want be accused of bashing your posts again, but I believe the war they are speaking of when they mention  pre-war cars is WWII, not Iraqi Freedom 

Edited by John348 (see edit history)
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1 hour ago, John348 said:

 

I don't want be accused of bashing your posts again, but I believe the war they are speaking of when they mention  pre-war cars is WWII, not Iraqi Freedom 

 

Back in the 1990s I had a fairly long discussion with a fellow hobbyist that involved how hard it was becoming to find parts for pre-war cars. It took me a little time to figure out that while I was thinking pre-WW2, he was thinking pre-WW1. :)

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Posted (edited)
3 hours ago, 1937hd45 said:

I'll be 69 in December so I guess age has it advantages, joining the hobby when I was 10 also helped. . Bob 

I’ve been a car fan since I can remember.  Did all kinds of repairs myself, got tools for Christmas and was the repair guy for some of my friends in high school. I never had much of a passing interest in the cars you mentioned other than for knowing about them for historical purposes.  Model A Ford is about as old as I would ever consider owning.  My interests today span from the model A era to the mid 1970s.  As much as those real early cars are interesting, my desire for ownership would be for a car or truck that is able to drive at least 50 mph and affordable with a decent chance of finding spare parts when needed.  Kind of why ice cream comes in all different flavors, not everyone likes plain vanilla.  Saw a nice red 1977 AMC AMX today, I remember when it was on my short list to buy in 1977.  Great to see someone is keeping cars like that alive, just like you keep the Model T era going.

Edited by TerryB (see edit history)

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4 hours ago, mike6024 said:

I bought my house in southern California in 1988 for $120,000 and sold it in 2001 for $153,000. Wow, did I sell too soon. It was a SMALL 2 bedroom 1 bath with a carport, something like this one in the picture.

Photo of 4612 W 160th St, Lawndale, CA 90260

 

$570,000 (Pending)
  Est. Payment $2,191/mo

4612 W 160th St, Lawndale, CA 90260

  • 2 beds
  • 1 bath
  • 675 sq ft
  • 5,827 sqft lot

Image result for 4207 154th street lawndale, CA

 

That was my actual house, the one with the palm tree. It is not on the market now. 680 Square feet. 4,500 square foot lot.

 

 

Most of Melbourne and Sydney are $1m+ for standalone houses these days - lots of crap apartments being built at the moment that have major problems

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Also helps to be in the same house for 35 years. Point am making is that while I have rarely bought new cars and always buy interesting (to me), "interesting" is a moving target and what was "interesting" in 1959 is different from 2019. For one thing technology has changed: have gone from a DOHC 6 with 4 wheel disks to a DOHC 6 with 4 wheel disk brakes. The difference is that the Jag could go 7,000 rpm once and the Cad has a factory redline of 7,000 rpm (Redline 7000 had the only movie appearance of the Cobra Daytona and it had a front Florida plate - this is how my train of thought goes).

 

Also in 1959, a pre-war car was not particularly old and $75 cars abounded. Keep in mind that one reason for the 5 digit (99,999) odo was that few cars made it that far. The world today is different and not just that there are many, many more choices but also that 200,00 and even 300,000 miles is not unusual. Then a five year old car was at the back of the lot and "late model" meant less than three years. Today is different. A $75 dollar 39 and 40 in 1959 is a $1000 1999 or 2000 today

 

This meant  today there are not only 60 years more cars available than in 1959 but they are also lasting two and three times as long. The choices are much greater and most this century not only have double the MPG, they do it with AC on. And Dad or even Grandpa don't talk about  the Model Ts they had (my Grandfather had several Stutzs), but rather the Muscle Cars they had as kids. Think about it.

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One of the big problems here in Canada is the cars being sold out of the country. There is not many cars imported into Canada verses cars that are exported because of the dollar exchange being high at times. So this makes fewer and fewer cars available to someone looking to buy a car to get into the hobby. For example do a search on brass cars for sale in Canada and see how many you will find. The same goes for parts being very expensive when you buy a brass T rad for example. A friend bought a 1912 T rad for $1,250. and has it shipped to his door.  From Lang's $1,250. US + US tax + shipping + brokerage fee + Can. tax  = $2,600. Canadian.  

I see adds in the US for RARE 4 door Canadian T for sale in the US. But I think that is a false advertising as there are more Canadian T's in the US than there is in Canada today I believe.

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