Is hobby interest in pre-WWII cars Dying?

[TerryB]

3 hours ago, 1937hd45 said:

I'll be 69 in December so I guess age has it advantages, joining the hobby when I was 10 also helped. . Bob 

I’ve been a car fan since I can remember.  Did all kinds of repairs myself, got tools for Christmas and was the repair guy for some of my friends in high school. I never had much of a passing interest in the cars you mentioned other than for knowing about them for historical purposes.  Model A Ford is about as old as I would ever consider owning.  My interests today span from the model A era to the mid 1970s.  As much as those real early cars are interesting, my desire for ownership would be for a car or truck that is able to drive at least 50 mph and affordable with a decent chance of finding spare parts when needed.  Kind of why ice cream comes in all different flavors, not everyone likes plain vanilla.  Saw a nice red 1977 AMC AMX today, I remember when it was on my short list to buy in 1977.  Great to see someone is keeping cars like that alive, just like you keep the Model T era going.

Edited June 16, 2019 by TerryB (see edit history)

[hidden_hunter]

4 hours ago, mike6024 said:

I bought my house in southern California in 1988 for $120,000 and sold it in 2001 for $153,000. Wow, did I sell too soon. It was a SMALL 2 bedroom 1 bath with a carport, something like this one in the picture.

 

$570,000 (Pending)

  Est. Payment $2,191/mo

4612 W 160th St, Lawndale, CA 90260

• 2 beds
• 1 bath
• 675 sq ft
• 5,827 sqft lot

 

That was my actual house, the one with the palm tree. It is not on the market now. 680 Square feet. 4,500 square foot lot.

 

 

Most of Melbourne and Sydney are $1m+ for standalone houses these days - lots of crap apartments being built at the moment that have major problems

[padgett]

Also helps to be in the same house for 35 years. Point am making is that while I have rarely bought new cars and always buy interesting (to me), "interesting" is a moving target and what was "interesting" in 1959 is different from 2019. For one thing technology has changed: have gone from a DOHC 6 with 4 wheel disks to a DOHC 6 with 4 wheel disk brakes. The difference is that the Jag could go 7,000 rpm once and the Cad has a factory redline of 7,000 rpm (Redline 7000 had the only movie appearance of the Cobra Daytona and it had a front Florida plate - this is how my train of thought goes).

 

Also in 1959, a pre-war car was not particularly old and $75 cars abounded. Keep in mind that one reason for the 5 digit (99,999) odo was that few cars made it that far. The world today is different and not just that there are many, many more choices but also that 200,00 and even 300,000 miles is not unusual. Then a five year old car was at the back of the lot and "late model" meant less than three years. Today is different. A $75 dollar 39 and 40 in 1959 is a $1000 1999 or 2000 today

 

This meant  today there are not only 60 years more cars available than in 1959 but they are also lasting two and three times as long. The choices are much greater and most this century not only have double the MPG, they do it with AC on. And Dad or even Grandpa don't talk about  the Model Ts they had (my Grandfather had several Stutzs), but rather the Muscle Cars they had as kids. Think about it.

[Joe in Canada]

One of the big problems here in Canada is the cars being sold out of the country. There is not many cars imported into Canada verses cars that are exported because of the dollar exchange being high at times. So this makes fewer and fewer cars available to someone looking to buy a car to get into the hobby. For example do a search on brass cars for sale in Canada and see how many you will find. The same goes for parts being very expensive when you buy a brass T rad for example. A friend bought a 1912 T rad for $1,250. and has it shipped to his door.  From Lang's $1,250. US + US tax + shipping + brokerage fee + Can. tax  = $2,600. Canadian.  

I see adds in the US for RARE 4 door Canadian T for sale in the US. But I think that is a false advertising as there are more Canadian T's in the US than there is in Canada today I believe.

[John348]

1 hour ago, padgett said:

Also helps to be in the same house for 35 years. Point am making is that while I have rarely bought new cars and always buy interesting (to me), "interesting" is a moving target and what was "interesting" in 1959 is different from 2019. For one thing technology has changed: have gone from a DOHC 6 with 4 wheel disks to a DOHC 6 with 4 wheel disk brakes. The difference is that the Jag could go 7,000 rpm once and the Cad has a factory redline of 7,000 rpm (Redline 7000 had the only movie appearance of the Cobra Daytona and it had a front Florida plate - this is how my train of thought goes).

 

Also in 1959, a pre-war car was not particularly old and $75 cars abounded. Keep in mind that one reason for the 5 digit (99,999) odo was that few cars made it that far. The world today is different and not just that there are many, many more choices but also that 200,00 and even 300,000 miles is not unusual. Then a five year old car was at the back of the lot and "late model" meant less than three years. Today is different. A $75 dollar 39 and 40 in 1959 is a $1000 1999 or 2000 today

 

This meant  today there are not only 60 years more cars available than in 1959 but they are also lasting two and three times as long. The choices are much greater and most this century not only have double the MPG, they do it with AC on. And Dad or even Grandpa don't talk about  the Model Ts they had (my Grandfather had several Stutzs), but rather the Muscle Cars they had as kids. Think about it.

 

Mr P, Thanks for explaining, now I understand the point you were trying to make

[1912Staver]

2 hours ago, Joe in Canada said:

One of the big problems here in Canada is the cars being sold out of the country. There is not many cars imported into Canada verses cars that are exported because of the dollar exchange being high at times. So this makes fewer and fewer cars available to someone looking to buy a car to get into the hobby. For example do a search on brass cars for sale in Canada and see how many you will find. The same goes for parts being very expensive when you buy a brass T rad for example. A friend bought a 1912 T rad for $1,250. and has it shipped to his door.  From Lang's $1,250. US + US tax + shipping + brokerage fee + Can. tax  = $2,600. Canadian.  

I see adds in the US for RARE 4 door Canadian T for sale in the US. But I think that is a false advertising as there are more Canadian T's in the US than there is in Canada today I believe.

 

Shipping to Canada is very expensive. I luckily live very close to Washington State and have a U.S. mailing address. Otherwise my small scale participation would be no participation at all. It really pays to have either a U.S friend that can receive things for you or a U.S. mailing address. Canada customs is a breeze . Be 100 % honest about values and I have never had a problem, rarely do they even charge me anything on lower value parts, say below about $250.00. Brokerage fees on direct shipments are a complete rip off.

 

Greg in Canada , about 5 miles from the U.S.A.

Edited June 17, 2019 by 1912Staver (see edit history)

[Joe in Canada]

2 hours ago, 1912Staver said:

Shipping to Canada is very expensive

I bought a 12 T as the regular posters  here are aware of seeing I found it on this forum. It was on Vancouver Island and I live in Ontario and the big expense was getting it off the Island. Had to pay $1500.  for the transport ferry ride to the mainland. Cost me a total of$4,000. + tax to get it to the Oshawa On. yard where I picked it up. But It was still a good deal and I am not complaining. 

[cahartley]

^ $1400 to get it off of the island?....... 🤬

Is the ferry operator holding residents captive both ways or what?....... 😲

 

[Dynaflash8]

13 hours ago, padgett said:

Today is different. A $75 dollar 39 and 40 in 1959 is a $1000 1999 or 2000 today

That is completely true, but a guy making $40 a week in 1959 is making $280 a week now and only working 32 hours.  So, when I got married in 1959 making $4040 a year, if that were today I'd be making $28280 per year.  My three year old 1955 Ford Fairlane Town Sedan cost $1250 off the Ford dealership lot in 1958.  Today it would cost $8750......but that's the real catch....you can't buy a 3 year old Ford with 20,000 miles on it for $8750 today......it's more like twice that much.  That same inflation has spilled over  into the old car market too; but not so much into wages I think. 

[auburnseeker]

I will clarify when I said cheaply,  I meant on stuff that you can be cheap about,  tools and materials,  etc,  there is no savings in being cheap.  I don't shop at harbor freight,  but I will gladly buy used tools as far as hand tools. MAc Snap On etc.  You can buy for .10 on the dollar if you really look.  Cordless tools I buy new, usually Dewalt Milwaukee or Hitachi. 

 

[1912Staver]

7 hours ago, cahartley said:

^ $1400 to get it off of the island?....... 🤬

Is the ferry operator holding residents captive both ways or what?....... 😲

 

 

I used to work there. It's expensive but a regular car or even a pickup and trailer is quite a bit less than that ,about $70.00 each way for a regular car. It was probably a large commercial truck { semi ?} , they pay pretty sky high rates.

 

Greg

[padgett]

Well more recently take 1973. Was in college (GMI - low cost) on GI bill. Had a '72 Pontiac Station Wagon/tow car and a '63 FI Split Window B/P race car I paid a grand for (mustering out pay included unused vacation). Bought a two bedroom house with 2 1/2 car heated garage for $15k at 7%. Next biggest expense was $500 for a 25" Admiral color TV. After the gas crisis, regular was about 45c/gallon the same as a gallon of milk. Was married in December and we honeymooned camping in the Keys with a 750 Suzuki. Didn't really want for anything.

 

Some people say the US living quality peaked around 1974. For me these are the good old daze.

[Frank DuVal]

15 hours ago, auburnseeker said:

I don't shop at harbor freight

 

Then you are missing some bargains. Sure there is crap there, but also some very useable tools for cheap. Their tool boxes are well worth looking at. I've bought three. I'm still using the hydraulic press and drill press I bought mail order from them in 1984.😃   And their hydraulic table saves my back and biceps.😉 I have three of their hoist tripod jack stands to keep cars stable on the lift. Way better than those pogo stick styles you see in shops.

 

I do buy used Snap On flare nut wrenches, no need to get the poor ones at Harbor Freight!😲 

[keithb7]

On 6/16/2019 at 9:06 PM, Joe in Canada said:

I bought a 12 T as the regular posters  here are aware of seeing I found it on this forum. It was on Vancouver Island and I live in Ontario and the big expense was getting it off the Island. Had to pay $1500.  for the transport ferry ride to the mainland. Cost me a total of$4,000. + tax to get it to the Oshawa On. yard where I picked it up. But It was still a good deal and I am not complaining. 

 

I drove my 98 Ram ¾Ton truck to Vancouver Island a couple weeks ago to buy a ‘38 Plymouth. Its a big truck and I had a 20 ft flat deck trailer. I was about 43 feet long total. I drove on the ferry empty. Came back full. Cost me under $400 CAD. return. I had a passenger too included in that $400. 

Edited June 18, 2019 by keithb7 (see edit history)

[Mike Macartney]

In the UK pre war cars seem to fetch a very low price when compared to later classics. Below is a link to the H&H auction.

 

https://issuu.com/paperrabbit2015/docs/h_h_duxford_june_19th_2019?e=32759311/70487414

 

[oldcarfudd]

That Lamborghini tractor would stir up the monkeys at a cars 'n' coffee!

[Joe in Canada]

 

On ‎6‎/‎17‎/‎2019 at 1:44 AM, cahartley said:

^ $1400 to get it off of the island?....... 🤬

Is the ferry operator holding residents captive both ways or what?....... 😲

 

You have to consider the weight of a transport verses a pickup seeing you are on a boat that has a capacity limit. They used a tilt and load (more money) to get the car in the back of the truck seeing I had use a cargo transport. I could not find a car hauler that would not go through the Rockies in the winter plus the time frame that the daughter sprung on me you do not have much choice. I am still not complaining on the total cost of the transaction. For me to go get it myself would be a 10 day trip and not worth the effort for the price difference

[padgett]

Needs must. Some of my best road trips have been to get cars. OTOH am not interested in something that does not have a Florida title unless free, import duty is several hundred dollars.

And on the gripping hand the Jeep is the best tow car I've ever had.

[John348]

3 hours ago, padgett said:

Needs must. Some of my best road trips have been to get cars. OTOH am not interested in something that does not have a Florida title unless free, import duty is several hundred dollars.

And on the gripping hand the Jeep is the best tow car I've ever had.

 

I do not find that statement to be true at all. Florida is very financially'friendly' to register/title an antique car. However, I did find it rather costly for new or a "used car" Maybe you got that confused  or could have things changed since you had last titled a pre-war car ( 1942 or older)?

 

 I also am missing the point of your statement about the Jeep, or how it applies to this thread.   

Edited June 19, 2019 by John348 (see edit history)

[padgett]

Guess I should have mentioned cars I am interested in all have AC and four of my current ones qualify for antique auto insurance. Also the key in Florida is to always have extra license plates, new plate fee is over $200. You disagree that some of my best road trips have been to get cars ? Do not consider a long ways until over 1000 miles each way. Recently ran from O'town to NY state non-stop pulling a tandem axle U-haul loaded to the roof. No big particularly if have a companion. Not trying to duplicate Pierre Levegh.

 

Jeep comment is that it is a great road and tow car but only an inch longer than my CTS coupe, several others mentioned tow cars/trucks before. Point is you do not need a giant pickup. Have been driving rigs probably before many here were born.

 

Try to keep from monologues so leave a lot of background out.

[John348]

6 hours ago, padgett said:

Guess I should have mentioned cars I am interested in all have AC and four of my current ones qualify for antique auto insurance. Also the key in Florida is to always have extra license plates, new plate fee is over $200. You disagree that some of my best road trips have been to get cars ? Do not consider a long ways until over 1000 miles each way. Recently ran from O'town to NY state non-stop pulling a tandem axle U-haul loaded to the roof. No big particularly if have a companion. Not trying to duplicate Pierre Levegh.

 

Jeep comment is that it is a great road and tow car but only an inch longer than my CTS coupe, several others mentioned tow cars/trucks before. Point is you do not need a giant pickup. Have been driving rigs probably before many here were born.

 

Try to keep from monologues so leave a lot of background out.

 

I disagreed with you when said the price to title/register a pre-war vehicle in Florida was expensive, antique tags in Florida are not $200, (they are for what they consider to be a used vehicle) the vehicle MUST be at least 30 years, all vehicles newer are considered to be used cars as far as the Florida DMV rules go. I thought I was pretty clear with that in my response. I waited two years to tittle the 1988 Celebrity wagon my mother in law gave me to avoid the $200+ fee for tags on a vehicle that sits in a building. Have you gone to title a car that was 30 years old or older in Florida recently? 

 

 I would have no idea  what your best road trips were, so I would have no place commenting on that, so why would you think I would disagree about that? As far as your Jeep comment I must have missed a post because I did not read where anyone was asking about preferred tow vehicles, maybe you got threads mixed up? 

Edited June 19, 2019 by John348 (see edit history)

[Dynaflash8]

I retrieved my 39 Buick Special convertible sedan from the classic car dealer today.  I wanted it in my garage while I'm in the hospital for one reason, and I thought six months was long enough to have it away from home.  I'm not ready to put it up for sale myself yet due to my impending heart hospitalization on July 1 and at least a couple of weeks recovery time; but I am open to all reasonable offers if anybody is even interested.  I do have an idea (804-366-4870) of what my bottom line would be, but I'm flexible.  And, I would welcome some back and forth discussion.  I only ask for people to be fair, and not be simply a tire kicker.  So, if you are interested in a very rare (714 built, very nice older restored car, you have a first chance as an AACA member before it is advertised in AACA, BCA or the 38-39 Buick club, or someplace else.  The picture was on the AACA Sentimental Tour a few couple of years ago inTexas.  Earl

Edited June 19, 2019 by Dynaflash8 (see edit history)

[John348]

44 minutes ago, Dynaflash8 said:

I retrieved my 39 Buick Special convertible sedan from the classic car dealer today.  I wanted it in my garage while I'm in the hospital for one reason, and I thought six months was long enough to have it away from home.  I'm not ready to put it up for sale myself yet due to my impending heart hospitalization on July 1 and at least a couple of weeks recovery time; but I am open to all reasonable offers if anybody is even interested.  I do have an idea (804-366-4870) of what my bottom line would be, but I'm flexible.  And, I would welcome some back and forth discussion.  I only ask for people to be fair, and not be simply a tire kicker.  So, if you are interested in a very rare (714 built, very nice older restored car, you have a first chance as an AACA member before it is advertised in AACA, BCA or the 38-39 Buick club, or someplace else.  The picture was on the AACA Sentimental Tour a few couple of years ago inTexas.  Earl

 

Earl,

Your Buick is stunning! and it will sell, just that the right person has not found it yet. That car is the peak of GM's art-deco, pre-war elegance. More importantly is your health, at least you will have it home and under your management while your procedure is being performed and recuperating. I recall seeing it in person on a Sentimental Tour about 10 or 11 years ago when it was in Ocala, and it was even more stunning in person.

Remember everything sells eventually 

Edited June 19, 2019 by John348 (see edit history)

[mercer09]

hat same inflation has spilled over  into the old car market too; but not so much into wages I think. 

 

 

avg family income on the early 70s in the USA was around 53k

 

today it is 57k

 

and yes, houses and cars have quadrupled and in some cases, even more.............

 

of course, wages are also regional, though possibly less so today, as many have migrated south.

[edinmass]

I can’t believe that income in the early 70’s was 53k.........my guess would be much less than half of that. 

[ply33]

7 minutes ago, edinmass said:

I can’t believe that income in the early 70’s was 53k.........my guess would be much less than half of that. 

 

I believe that is inflation adjusted to today's dollar.

[60FlatTop]

In the 1970's I was single with zero dependents. 28% of my money went to the Feds, 11% went to the State, 3% went to Social Security. That's a pretty big bite.

 

So I was getting about half of what I made.  But the adjusted spending power was about $60,000 in today's, as Ply33 wrote.

 

I think that 3% is coming back to me from my children's paycheck. Almost what they call a Ponzi scheme.

 

Bernie

[edinmass]

7 minutes ago, ply33 said:

 

I believe that is inflation adjusted to today's dollar.

 

That makes more sense......but I can tell you in western Mass where I grew up, a three bedroom one bath home less than ten years old on an acre of land on the suburbs was 18k, and it was considered upper middle class. An old farmhouse with three acres and a barn, with old school half assed upgrades was 8-10k. There were local manufacturing jobs with a high school education and the pay would have you in a home by 25 years old. Today........an absolute impossibility.

Edited June 23, 2019 by edinmass (see edit history)