Dynaflash8

Is hobby interest in pre-WWII cars Dying?

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Posted (edited)
4 hours ago, AHa said:

Some years ago a friend restored a mid 30s Hudson coupe/ roadster. He took it to an action and got 60,000 for it. Turns out the auctioneer bought it and took it to the next auction where it brought 80. He no selled it and advertised it in the next auction where it brought a higher price but once again he didn't let it go. I think it finally brought around 120 and he let it go. Maybe those days are gone but how would I know? Why shouldn't I expect my car to increase in value? 

Yeah, those days are definitely gone.  My car is rare, but not selling at  a fair price.  Dealers and auctioneers can always sell for a much better price than individual hobbyists.  It's a fact of life.  I've done numerous high end restorations.  Back in 1981 I could make money, but today I can only lose a bundle of money.  I don't have a problem with that.  The end satisfaction justifies the expense.  But the car I want to sell now has old money in it.  One reason it costs so much more to restore now is that back in the seventies I had all NOS chrome to use that I had collected.  Now chrome plating is out of sight....no more 39 Buick bumpers being plated for $22 each <grin>.  There are no more dealers with truckloads of NOS parts in the attic either.  And, all my mechanic friends are either dead or in a nursing home.  I have thought I'd been careful to just keep it nice, tour it, keep it covered my my garage and soforth.  I can't' even come ahead on old money.  Times have changed.

 

Edited by Dynaflash8 (see edit history)

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Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, Dynaflash8 said:

 Dealers and auctioneers can always sell for a much better price than individual hobbyists.  It's a fact of life. 

 

I disagree, for the most part.  Please, Earl, do not

perpetuate the myth.  A lot of auction prices are reasonable;

and when dealers offer their cars on Ebay, there are usually

no takers at their high prices.

 

Consider 1977-79 Lincolns, for instance.  They are very

common, as many were saved as the last of the big cars.

One can buy a medium-mileage Lincoln for, say, $6000-8000,

and have plenty to choose from.  Dealers will put an asking price of

at least double on that car--say $15,000 or more--and hold onto

that asking price like grim death, even when there are plenty of

nice Lincolns for sale at realistic prices.  They must feel that 

they can't lower their published asking prices, as private sellers do.

If they lowered their asking prices, how could they ask $15,000 

for the next one?

 

I appreciate sellers who ask prices 10% or 20% above market

value, and are happy to negotiate down to a price that's fair for all.

Edited by John_S_in_Penna (see edit history)
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True but I suspect some "friends" probably get a better deal at auction than others, probably 10-15%

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2 hours ago, John_S_in_Penna said:

 

I disagree, for the most part.  Please, Earl, do not

perpetuate the myth.  A lot of auction prices are reasonable;

and when dealers offer their cars on Ebay, there are usually

no takers at their high prices.

 

Consider 1977-79 Lincolns, for instance.  They are very

common, as many were saved as the last of the big cars.

One can buy a medium-mileage Lincoln for, say, $6000-8000,

and have plenty to choose from.  Dealers will put an asking price of

at least double on that car--say $15,000 or more--and hold onto

that asking price like grim death, even when there are plenty of

nice Lincolns for sale at realistic prices.  They must feel that 

they can't lower their published asking prices, as private sellers do.

If they lowered their asking prices, how could they ask $15,000 

for the next one?

 

I appreciate sellers who ask prices 10% or 20% above market

value, and are happy to negotiate down to a price that's fair for all.

John:  I respectfully disagree with you John, based on my lifetime experience.  I've seen dealers sell for higher prices than I could ever do for myself.  I base that on one car I bought that wasn't worth what I paid for it, and one that was sold by a dealer for more than I could have gotten for it where I ended up with what I wanted (about $6K less than I'd dumped into it).  So, it works both ways.  Buy high sell low Earl they call me, because I get anxious and often give in for what they want to pay instead of what I want.  In other words, I feel like I'm "easy"

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On 5/15/2019 at 12:54 PM, Matt Harwood said:

And how many '50s and '60s movies had car clubs as the villains?

 

If you've never seen it,  check out Hot Rods to Hell (1967) starring Dana Andrews as a family man trying to drive his 61 Plymouth through the desert to a motel he is buying, and being constantly harassed by some spoiled brat teenagers driving a convertible Corvette and their hot rod friends.  It's a real hoot and a nostalgic time piece of the 60s!  

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Posted (edited)

I posted on this forum about a year ago pointing out the fact that pre war cars were desirable to less and less potential buyers and that the price of all (except of course ''pre war greats'') should and MUST go down in order to renew interest in younger generations. What I mentioned was that older guys STUBBORNLY hold on to a price they think is still pertinent and DO NOT budge. So, year after year, we all see the same cars (with the same owner) come back in the classified adds trying to sell their cars the amount they think its worth or based on false evaluation/value guides.

Again, a car is only worth what people are willing to pay and for pre war cars, very few are willing to pay what people are asking and so, they rarely sell. Some RARE younger guys like me would be willing to buy one (for less money of course) but  its impossible to make pre war cars owners understand that their cars are not worth what they used to. So they look for a potential car to buy for a few months, or in my case, a few years and when we realize that a good car at a realistic price is simply not possible, we simply move on. So I've been looking for a few years for a good buy on a pre war car but came to the conclusion that most owners live in another world so I gave up on the pre war market and looked at cars from my own genereation. So last winter I bought an extremely well preserved SN95 Mustang convertible. At less than half the price of a pre war car I have a perfect car with minimum wear. I also enjoy the fact that guys from my own generation also enjoy looking and talking about the car because they can relate to it. I still enjoy reading about and looking at pre war cars but I'm very happy with how things turned out and will not be buying a pre war car anytime soon... 

I know from experience that posting this kind of message on this forum will bring me all sorts of aggressive replies (as it was with my original post) but I really don't care. My intention here is maybe to wake some of you guys up, and so maybe help save what is indeed a dying part of the hobby.

Edited by PreWarQc (see edit history)
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Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, PreWarQc said:

I posted on this forum about a year ago pointing out the fact that pre war cars were desirable to less and less potential buyers and that the price of all (except of course ''pre war greats'') should and MUST go down in order to renew interest in younger generations. What I mentioned was that older guys STUBBORNLY hold on to a price they think is still pertinent and DO NOT budge. So, year after year, we all see the same cars (with the same owner) come back in the classified adds trying to sell their cars the amount they think its worth or based on false evaluation/value guides.

Again, a car is only worth what people are willing to pay and for pre war cars, very few are willing to pay what people are asking and so, they rarely sell. Some RARE younger guys like me would be willing to buy one (for less money of course) but  its impossible to make pre war cars owners understand that their cars are not worth what they used to. So guys like me look for a potential car to buy for a few months, or in my case, a few years and when we realize that a good car at a realistic price is simply not possible, we simply move on. So I've been looking for a few years for a good buy on a pre war car but came to the conclusion that most owners live in another world so I gave up on the pre war market and looked at cars from my own genereation. So last winter I bought an extremely well preserved SN95 Mustang convertible. At less than half the price of a pre war car I have a perfect car with minimum wear. I also enjoy the fact that guys from my own generation also enjoy looking and talking about the car because they can relate to it. I still enjoy reading about and looking at pre war cars but I'm very happy with how things turned out and will not be buying a pre war car anytime soon... 

I know from experience that posting this kind of message on this forum will bring me all sorts of aggressive replies (as it was with my original post) but I really don't care. My intention here is maybe to wake some of you guys up, and so maybe help save what is indeed a dying part of the hobby.

Well, thank you for your service to us greedy old guys.  You sure showed us--you bought a newer car instead of an overpriced pre-war car.  Do I hear "nya, nya, nya"?

 

Now I'll depart from sarcasm (mostly).  You may be failing to count all the pre-war cars offered and which DID SELL during your year of research; you seem to only see those which did not.  I certainly agree that some cars, of whichever age, do not sell for the reasons you mention.  Stick around and buy them after we croak and our heirs just want them off the property.  Did you include estate auctions in your research?

 

The "worth" is what something actually sells for from a willing seller to a willing buyer, just as you said.  What you're accusing people of is not being a Willing Seller by not accepting a price that YOU are willing to pay..  I've been in the hobby over 50 years and have missed some wonderful opportunities because I either didn't have the cash (1938 Lincoln Zephyr conv sedan, #3 condition, $650,  in 1965) or due to objections of a then-wife (1939 Cad 75 conv coupe, #3 condition, one of 27 built, $2500 in 1968; 1964 Porsche Super Carrera twin cam from orig owner, 45K impeccable garage-kept miles with new engine [owner lost an external oil line at speed], $2500 in 1971).  My principle over the years has been, assuming that I have the cash and available storage, I'll spend a bit more than current market to acquire a special car that will be a long term hold.

 

If you want an open Cadillac V-16 or an open Packard V-12, you're gonna have to cough up some serious change, but if you want to get into a CCCA-eligible car relatively inexpensively, look at CLOSED Lincoln Ls and Ks, or Pierce 80-81.  If keeping up with modern traffic is a priority, then you'll want a car with factory overdrive from the mid to late 1930s, including MoPaR, Studebaker and Nash.  Once you have decided what features you want, apply market aspects to your price range, and make offers.

 

Uh, I'm already awake, thank you.

Edited by Grimy
fix typo (see edit history)
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Posted (edited)

No Reserve: 1940 Buick CoupeNo Reserve: 1940 Buick Coupe

 

No Reserve: 1940 Buick Coupe, SOLD FOR $18,500 ON 5/16/19

 

Is this a legitimate price data point? I would think so, since it was a widely published auction.

 

It is interesting in it is said to have $13k bare metal paint work, new leather interior. So it seems to confirm prices are weak. I other words, if this were a private seller offering it in Hemmings, I doubt he would have been asking for $18.5k.

 

http://bringatrailer.com/listing/1940-buick-coupe-3-speed/

 

No Reserve: 1940 LaSalle Series 50 Coupe

 

No Reserve: 1940 LaSalle Series 50 Coupe, SOLD FOR $27,500 ON 5/16/19

 

This is rather weak too, I'd say.

 

1940 LaSalle Series 50 Coupe

 

 

Edited by mike6024 (see edit history)
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14 minutes ago, Grimy said:

Well, thank you for your service to us greedy old guys.  You sure showed us--you bought a newer car instead of an overpriced pre-war car.  Do I hear "nya, nya, nya"?

 

Now I'll depart from sarcasm (mostly).  You may be failing to count all the pre-war cars offered and which DID SELL during your year of research; you seem to only see those which did not.  I certainly agree that some cars, of whichever age, do not sell for the reasons you mention.  Stick around and buy them after we croak and our heirs just want them off the property.  Did you include estate auctions in your research?

 

 

 

I've spent years shopping for PreWar cars and have had the same experience as @PreWarQc. Anyone who shops actively will notice that prices are in decline. For all your years in the hobby, i doubt you've experienced this phenomena to the extent it's happening.  You've been fortunate to see cars appreciate for most of your collecting days. There is another side to that coin.

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Earl started this discussion because he was surprised with his inability to sell his 1939 Buick Special Convertible Sedan as quickly as he thought he should be able to sell it. From reviewing similar recent sales, I told him that I thought his price was too high. I follow the market for similar cars fairly closely since I am the editor of the newsletter for the 36-38 Buick Club. As it turns out, Earl has sold the car for a higher price than I told him that I though the car was worth in the current market. I have seen all sorts of pre-war cars for sale and sold at all kinds of different prices. Sometimes they sell for more than I expect, and sometimes they sell for less. That is simply the way the market works. A car is worth what a willing buyer will pay a willing seller. Sometimes the two find each other quickly, and sometimes it takes a while. Sometimes the seller has unreasonabl expectations and sometimes the buyer has unreasonable expectations. There is no simple hard and fast rule to determine the exact value of a particular car on a particular day. 

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1 minute ago, Buick64C said:

 

I've spent years shopping for PreWar cars and have had the same experience as @PreWarQc. Anyone who shops actively will notice that prices are in decline. For all your years in the hobby, i doubt you've experienced this phenomena to the extent it's happening.  You've been fortunate to see cars appreciate for most of your collecting days. There is another side to that coin.

Certainly there are no guarantees of value appreciation, especially when one factors in inflation (sellers of long-held cars never mention that to their families).  At the time of the 1968 and 1971 failed purchases, I was making a bit less than $10K per year as an Army captain.  This thread has also addressed that this is one of very few hobbies in which one may expect to PERHAPS break even or have a relatively minor loss after years of enjoyment.

 

My comment was (1) many pre-war cars HAVE sold during his year of searching, and (2) what, other than recently completed sales. can be the arbiter of what's too much to pay or too little to sell for AT THE TIME?

 

This thread has also had discussion of current restoration costs being unretrievable in the short-term.

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26 minutes ago, Grimy said:

Well, thank you for your service to us greedy old guys.  You sure showed us--you bought a newer car instead of an overpriced pre-war car.  Do I hear "nya, nya, nya"?

 

If you hear ''nya, nya, nya'', it is only created by your imagination. I noticed from my previous thread that some members have a bad habit of creating things in their mind that do not exist... I'm very happy with my car, even if its more recent. The basic idea is not to own the oldest car around but simply to get into the hobby. I would of enjoyed a pre-war car also. So it is not ''victory'' for me, it simply is what it is, you don't need to add anything else to the story.

 

 

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14 minutes ago, Grimy said:

  This thread has also addressed that this is one of very few hobbies in which one may expect to PERHAPS break even or have a relatively minor loss after years of enjoyment

 

 

AMEN!

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48 minutes ago, MCHinson said:

Earl started this discussion because he was surprised with his inability to sell his 1939 Buick Special Convertible Sedan as quickly as he thought he should be able to sell it. From reviewing similar recent sales, I told him that I thought his price was too high. I follow the market for similar cars fairly closely since I am the editor of the newsletter for the 36-38 Buick Club. As it turns out, Earl has sold the car for a higher price than I told him that I though the car was worth in the current market. I have seen all sorts of pre-war cars for sale and sold at all kinds of different prices. Sometimes they sell for more than I expect, and sometimes they sell for less. That is simply the way the market works. A car is worth what a willing buyer will pay a willing seller. Sometimes the two find each other quickly, and sometimes it takes a while. Sometimes the seller has unreasonabl expectations and sometimes the buyer has unreasonable expectations. There is no simple hard and fast rule to determine the exact value of a particular car on a particular day. 

 

I agree with this up to a point... I mainly think that prices are kept artificially high. I would not say prices are in the stratosphere but they are high enough to keep a lot of potential enthusiasm OUT of the hobby and lots of ''investors'' with no real interest in cars - IN. Short term this is great for prices, but long term, you are not building a real base of enthusiasm and people have no choice but to pay a high price (those who can - and investors).

Its a well inflated bubble, keeping new buyers out and old investors or people with a lot of money in... but lets say with stocks, when the prices fall, young people will buy... with cars, you need real enthusiasm to buy when the price is low and I doubt there will be a lot left in the coming years.

 

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1 hour ago, Grimy said:

My comment was (1) many pre-war cars HAVE sold during his year of searching, and (2) what, other than recently completed sales. can be the arbiter of what's too much to pay or too little to sell for AT THE TIME?

 

 

Cars that HAVE sold is an easy metric to find. One needs to look no further then auction results. It's pretty clear from those that the trend is downward.

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35 minutes ago, Buick64C said:

Cars that HAVE sold is an easy metric to find. One needs to look no further then auction results. It's pretty clear from those that the trend is downward.

I don't think I've argued otherwise (super-premium cars excluded, of course).

 

When negotiating for a specific car, present a list of recent comparable auction sales, with links, if possible.  Because most auction results are fee-inclusive (say 10% buyer premium and 10% seller fee), calculate the NET the consignor received.  Creating a spreadsheet, I used that technique four years ago when negotiating my most recent purchase, a car I'd been after since 1998.

 

I make a point of not running down a car's condition, to avoid offending the owner.  I will say that for my proposed usage, I'd have to replace the tires, go through the brakes (and whatever else) at a cost of approximately $nnn, and that limits what I am *able* to pay for the car as is.

 

If one is interested in a specific marque, join that marque-specific club, because often long-held cars (vs.flipped) are offered FIRST within the club prior to mass marketing.  Franklins and Pierce-Arrows are great examples of this.  Especially in single-marque clubs, people aging out of the hobby are often looking for the Optimal Next Custodian for a long-held, long-enjoyed car, and may be willing to give such a person a break on the price.  I have both given and received such consideration.  How you present yourself (will you be that "Optimal Next Custodian"?) is definitely a factor in buying a long-held car.

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Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, PreWarQc said:

 

I agree with this up to a point... I mainly think that prices are kept artificially high. I would not say prices are in the stratosphere but they are high enough to keep a lot of potential enthusiasm OUT of the hobby and lots of ''investors'' with no real interest in cars - IN. Short term this is great for prices, but long term, you are not building a real base of enthusiasm and people have no choice but to pay a high price (those who can - and investors).

Its a well inflated bubble, keeping new buyers out and old investors or people with a lot of money in... but lets say with stocks, when the prices fall, young people will buy... with cars, you need real enthusiasm to buy when the price is low and I doubt there will be a lot left in the coming years.

 

 

What I don't get is the current pricing of the "better' nickel era cars. Probably sport touring or roadster body style. The closed cars in this era are too rare to be much of a factor. By "better" I am mainly talking Marmon , post brass, pre vertical 8 Stutz, small model Pierce, Kissel Kars, might even squeeze L head Mercer's into the generalization plus a few I have overlooked. 

 They ; as a blanket statement, take a very capable and enthusiastic owner. Parts are nonexistent, club support is spotty. Opportunity's to use them are quite limited, 2 wheel brakes on most , too slow for general antique tours, too new for many Brass Era groups.

 And up to 15 -20 years ago they were generally reasonably priced, mainly for the above reasons. Then they seemed to shoot up in price , and although prices may be easing a little, still seem to have quite high asking prices. 

I can see those prices justified for the very rare factory speedsters and similar very special individual cars {Gold Bug's, Bearcat's}. But I get the impression quite a few of the survivors of this type are languishing unused at the back of garages.

 Hopefully prices will settle out to a realistic level within my lifetime.

 

Greg in Canada

Edited by 1912Staver (see edit history)
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37 minutes ago, 1912Staver said:

They ; as a blanket statement, take a very capable and enthusiastic owner. Parts are nonexistent, club support is spotty. Opportunity's to use them are quite limited, 2 wheel brakes on most , too slow for general antique tours, too new for many Brass Era groups.

Greg, I'll quibble about everything except opportunity to drive (extensively).  Pierce-Arrow Society (PAS) has superb tech support and there are numerous reproduction parts available.  I've never owned a Franklin, but owners tell me the same about their club.  As to price differentials between open vs. closed cars, look at cars from the late 1950s and 1960s which seems (to me) to have a greater open vs. closed price differential.

 

We have to seek opportunities to tour, true.  Last month we had 40 nickel cars (eligibility through 1932) on a 5-day tour out of Minden, NV, run by the Nickel Era Touring Registry (NETR) of HCCA.  We had everything from Model Ts to (five) Pierces, with no hidden hierarchy of marques--just car folks having fun.  It was cold and rainy much of the time. Here's a photo of the 1918 Pierce climbing Kingsbury Grade (7,500 ft summit) thru snow flurries to Lake Tahoe (elev. 6250 ft).  We did a loop of the lake, where the day's high was 42*F.  NETR does one tour a year: 2017 in Calif Gold Country, 2018 on WA's Olympic Peninsula, 2020 out of Moscow ID.

 

I'm also a member (and permanent secretary) of another Nickel Club in central Calif which does two tours per year.

Kingsbury Grade.jpg

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True rarity should play a role in the price.  Buick built something like 105,000 Special's in 1939, of which only 714 were 4dr convertibles.  If a restored 4dr sedan can bring $12-18,000, it seems to me a 4dr convertible should bring at least 3 times as much.  Simply supply and demand if somebody likes a '39 Buick.  I've been AACA since 1962 and that has always been  the case.  It has always been about soft tops, liklihood of survival and rarity.

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Posted (edited)

I think the original premise of this thread is flawed. It seems to equate "dying" with prices falling. Dying would be when pre-war cars were headed for the scrap heap. Prices falling is just a conventional market readjustment that anyone, in any other field of collecting, would expect. Why should cars be immune from market forces? Old cars are a very subjective interest. No one "needs" one and they are always purchased with discretionary income. I think that what we are seeing is a readjustment where buyers with big money - who may be even more influenced by current fad and fancy than the general enthusiast - are drawn to other things. Those will eventually decline as well...nothing is as ephemeral as fashion.

 

What we now have is a situation where a lot of cars are still in the hands of people who can't come to grips with the idea that they cannot be sold now for what the owner thought they could bring only a few years ago. So what...falling prices provide an opportunity for enthusiasts who, till now, were priced out of the market. This site echos with lamentations about the future of the hobby but a trend like this, that ultimately promises to be good for the hobby, appears to be a big cause for concern.

 

As to the nickel era cars that 1912Staver likes (I like them too) we just have to watch and wait. There is a reasonable chance that, when those cars have to be sold we'll see further readjustment in prices.

Edited by JV Puleo (see edit history)
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Posted (edited)
24 minutes ago, JV Puleo said:

No one "needs" one and they are always purchased with discretionary income. I think that what we are seeing is a readjustment where buyers with big money - who may be even more influenced by current fad and fancy than the general enthusiast - are drawn to other things

I have needed pre-WWII Buicks of 1934-1942 vintage since I could walk and since I was 16 since I could buy.  Want always spilled over to "need" for me from the day in 1959 when I married.  I wasn't married a year before I bought a truly tired 1939 Buick sedan out of a yard in our neighborhood and had to wait a week to get my body shop owning cousin to haul it to my father-in-law to help get it running.  I never had any real money.  As the years went along the good convertibles increased in value every year and I could never afford one until 1968 when I managed an unrestored convertible coupe.  In 1963 I had to borrow $120 from the credit union to buy a 4dr sedan.  The convertible coupe needed more than I could do so I sold it.  Finally, I was able to buy a very nice 65,000 miles convertible sedan for $1700.  I don't remember where I got that money, but I'm sure my wife and kids suffered for it.  I just "needed" it and my tongue was hanging out to get it.  I told my wife it would be an investment.  I kept it and we restored it in my own garage and in 1985 I sold it to help build a house.  When my Dad passed I inherited a little money and I went back and re-purchased my car for $8000 more than I sold it for and kept it another 19 years until Father Time started to catch up.  All during those years I could see interest dropping in pre-WWII cars, but I couldn't let it go.  My daughter said, "Dad, you sold that car once, and you got it back, you may not get it back the next time".  Surely, at my age I will not.  The time had finally come.  On the AACA show fields a line of perhaps 8-10 1941 Buicks would be in Class in 1975.  This had now dropped to maybe one, once in a great a while.  But people still wanted them, just not like in the early 1970s.  It appears to me now that only a very few people want them at all.  Maybe I'm wrong, I hope so.  The money today is in 1960s cars and it is sliding over to 1970s already.  That is just my opinion, and I've been around a lot of years.

Edited by Dynaflash8 (see edit history)
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Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, Grimy said:

Greg, I'll quibble about everything except opportunity to drive (extensively).  Pierce-Arrow Society (PAS) has superb tech support and there are numerous reproduction parts available.  I've never owned a Franklin, but owners tell me the same about their club.  As to price differentials between open vs. closed cars, look at cars from the late 1950s and 1960s which seems (to me) to have a greater open vs. closed price differential.

 

We have to seek opportunities to tour, true.  Last month we had 40 nickel cars (eligibility through 1932) on a 5-day tour out of Minden, NV, run by the Nickel Era Touring Registry (NETR) of HCCA.  We had everything from Model Ts to (five) Pierces, with no hidden hierarchy of marques--just car folks having fun.  It was cold and rainy much of the time. Here's a photo of the 1918 Pierce climbing Kingsbury Grade (7,500 ft summit) thru snow flurries to Lake Tahoe (elev. 6250 ft).  We did a loop of the lake, where the day's high was 42*F.  NETR does one tour a year: 2017 in Calif Gold Country, 2018 on WA's Olympic Peninsula, 2020 out of Moscow ID.

 

I'm also a member (and permanent secretary) of another Nickel Club in central Calif which does two tours per year.

Kingsbury Grade.jpg

 

Definitely there are some very enthusiastic owners of these cars. However I suspect there are up to possibly 750 individual cars existent that I would put in this broad category , perhaps 200 - 300 drivable, where are all the others? I generally see these cars as being from 1916 and newer and I have a mental cut off at about 1928 or in some cases 1925, after that the better cars are entering the "classic" era and are quite a different machine.

Franklins are fine machines but not quite my thing.

 I would personally relish Pierce ownership, but I doubt I will ever be able to bridge the cost obstacle. Pierce 80's were a car I followed closely but then they also seemed to shoot up in price. Especially wire wheel Roadsters and Sport Touring's.

Before the need to seek out touring opportunity's I need to own a running car to tour with. With todays cost vs income relationship, that day is still a long way off.

 

Greg

pierce-arrow_model_80_roadster_7.jpg

Edited by 1912Staver (see edit history)

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7 hours ago, 1912Staver said:

I would personally relish Pierce ownership, but I doubt I will ever be able to bridge the cost obstacle. Pierce 80's were a car I followed closely but then they also seemed to shoot up in price. Especially wire wheel Roadsters and Sport Touring's.

Before the need to seek out touring opportunity's I need to own a running car to tour with. With todays cost vs income relationship, that day is still a long way off

Greg, a very presentable and tourable Series 80 sedan or coach can be had for $25K or less--and if you find one needing refreshing and not having been run in awhile, under $20K.  Other bodies, such as the 4-passenger coupe I sold 3 years ago and any open body styles, are substantially higher.  80s do come on the market regularly, especially within the Club.  A 2014 Weis Award winner (=Best of Show at annual meet) sold for less than $70K.

 

For touring, I recommend a Mitchell overdrive for non-competitive 80s--makes it a different car entirely!  I put one in my sedan which has the deepest factory diff at 4.88 and now it cruises comfortably at 50 (previously comfortable at 36-37, screaming at 40-41).

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It seems like alot of people who are sad they cant get a pre war car are really sad they cant get a hi end pre war car or a convertible or a coupe instead of a sedan. I'm sad we lost a young person to just another modern mustang but then again if thats what he "settled" for then maybe a pre war car would of been the wrong choice anyway. I have seen alot of not expensive sedans sell here like 30's and 40's pontiacs and buicks for 10-20 thousand $. There was just a 6 cylinder Packard sedan that I think sold for like 12 thousand $. Alot of guys seemed interested but just as many said the would be interested if it was a 8 cylinder or a coupe. Well duh but it wouldnt of been so cheap then. My Olds is a sedan. I wanted a 2 door but it was out of the budget. Now tho I'm in the hobby and having fun. I didnt get exactly what I wanted but I have a car I like that I use alot and have fun with. It isn't my alltime dream car but it is still fun and the price was right. Sometimes maybe it's better to just be in the race rather then wait for one you can win......

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