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Is hobby interest in pre-WWII cars Dying?


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1 hour ago, Matt Harwood said:

 

This is probably a good discussion that warrants its own topic rather than being buried in here. A week ago I wrote a long topic on this very subject but never hit post simply because I was afraid it would devolve into the usual discussion. Perhaps I was mistaken. There's a lot to do if we're going to engage young people and our biggest problem is that we're simply not speaking their language. It's more than just a website, it's figuring out how to operate on their level. There's much derision of young people using their phones and social media, but that is how they communicate and do business today. Ignoring them and their preferred methods of communication is probably a big turn off.

 

I've seen a lot of people on this forum who think young people are idiots who only care about Facebook and looking at their phones, and that's a mistake. Those same young people think you're an idiot for being willing to wait six days to get a piece of information that should be available in seconds. The problem isn't that young people aren't interested, they just aren't interested in doing it the way we used to do it. It isn't unreasonable for them to want instant access to information because that's how their entire world works and has since they were born. And I think theirs is a valid complaint that many clubs have yet to adequately address.

 

Anyway, this topic deserves its own thread with informed discussion. It's more than just a website and letting them know there's a club. Way more. It's changing how the clubs and the hobby operate that is key to attracting and keeping them involved. 

Matt,

 

you are correct it’s not just a site, that is table stakes.  Several posts earlier I had other lessons learned which included ways we have evolved and are not a club.  No membership fees, no Hierarchy and politics,  electronic only, meet ups instead of formal meetings, one to one or one to many connection facilitation, and my son does other stuff such as snap chat,etc. Very far from perfect but a start.  My first old car was a 1931 Model A that I got a few years ago and I joined MARC and the local region group.  A formal hierarchical structure, monthly meetings, monthly lunches and breakfasts during the week and in mornings when anyone who worked couldn’t attend, and endless debate about what tours or drives to do because many had already done everything.  What new person to the hobby wants to come to something like this?  I had so many questions and asked where I can go to for different types of needs and what stuff I should have with me when I am driving, etc.   The answer was we need to get more welcome packets printed at the printer.  I asked can’t you email it to me?  Nope.  I didn’t complain and I offered to do the newsletter which I did for 8 months.  I tried to adapt things and drive some change but it was such a process and resistance that I just couldn’t do it any longer and invest the time.  I remember one of the monthly meetings where there was a 30 minute debate about whether they should raise the annual dues by $5.  It just isn’t productive and it was a bigger hassle to pay by check than any amount the dues would have been.   What person under 35 uses checks or even carries cash.  I’m in my 40s and I don’t use either.   Now don’t get me wrong, when we actually had an event or tour it was always a great time and I loved it but it was just so much other bureaucracy to get to that point and if you didn’t join the breakfasts and lunches you kind of felt like a bit of an outsider.  I did not renew my membership to that club or to MARC.  

 

I agree about another thread with a serious discussion and not just saying the sky is falling or the golden age is over.   I have been in the tech industry for 27 years and I have a mentality of launch quick, learn, adapt, and optimize.  The only thing consistent in my world is rapid change.  

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I have the feeling the hobby will ultimately evolve toward this sort of model anyway. The only potential speedbump is the abrupt transition between the youthful "instant information" participants and us dinosaurs. It's going to happen one way or another. Time stands still for no one. 

 By the way many of us gray hairs don't care much for the at times needless back and forth seemingly inherent in club administration . But it seems to come along with nearly any larger organization. And generally speaking any event of more than a dozen or so participants seems to need quite a bit of behind the scenes work.

I like your point of almost no person under 35 carrying cash. Perhaps that is why they are so rare at swap meets where cash is generally the only way to pay . Commercial venders excepted of course, but they are 99% on the web anyway. Swap meet presence are  generally just a local delivery system for items pre sold electronically.

 There might be a few hiccups  along the way for pop up events, however I am sure time and evolution will win out.

Time has indeed slowed down within the old car hobby, that is after all part of the attraction. 

But no doubt the changing generation will bring the principals of "launch quick, learn , adapt and optimize" to the fuddy duddy world of old cars. It took all we could muster as a group several generations just to master learn. The millennials are truly Uber.

 

P.S., your post has reminded me just how I have stood still since I was 35 or 40, 100 years ago ? Still pay cash for everything ...as advised by nearly every personal finance person out there. Still the only phone I own is the one connected to the wall with a wire on my kitchen counter. A symptom of Canada's more or less highest in the world cell phone rates. The more the world changes , the more obsolete us dinosaurs become.

 

Greg in Canada

Edited by 1912Staver (see edit history)
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I read 60 Flat Top's post:  My  grandmother would talk about "the old people" and she was talking about them right up to her death at 101 years old - it is a frame of mind and there are a lot of "old" 20 year old people just as there are "old" 90'ish year old people, as well as "old" people of every age in between (her point that you can be 101 and "young" is very well taken). 

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5 hours ago, Matt Harwood said:

 

This is probably a good discussion that warrants its own topic rather than being buried in here. A week ago I wrote a long topic on this very subject but never hit post simply because I was afraid it would devolve into the usual discussion. Perhaps I was mistaken. There's a lot to do if we're going to engage young people and our biggest problem is that we're simply not speaking their language. It's more than just a website, it's figuring out how to operate on their level. There's much derision of young people using their phones and social media, but that is how they communicate and do business today. Ignoring them and their preferred methods of communication is probably a big turn off.

 

I've seen a lot of people on this forum who think young people are idiots who only care about Facebook and looking at their phones, and that's a mistake. Those same young people think you're an idiot for being willing to wait six days to get a piece of information that should be available in seconds. The problem isn't that young people aren't interested, they just aren't interested in doing it the way we used to do it. It isn't unreasonable for them to want instant access to information because that's how their entire world works and has since they were born. And I think theirs is a valid complaint that many clubs have yet to adequately address.

 

Anyway, this topic deserves its own thread with informed discussion. It's more than just a website and letting them know there's a club. Way more. It's changing how the clubs and the hobby operate that is key to attracting and keeping them involved. 

True about the iPhone people , the one week TV "restorations" aren't doing anything about teaching reality. On the other hand, can they fund a car build by staring into that cell phone while typing away?

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2 hours ago, 1912Staver said:

 

 

P.S.,Still the only phone I own is the one connected to the wall with a wire on my kitchen counter. A symptom of Canada's more or less highest in the world cell phone rates. The more the world changes , the more obsolete us dinosaurs become.

 

Greg in Canada

My phone is on the desk in front of this keyboard. Do the Canadians with cellphones use an obscenity every 6-10 works while tapping the thing looking for a photo or something? That is one HUGE turn off for me. Who wants to listen to that trash talk while they try to find a photo of their cat. 

 

Bob 

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One big part of the organized,  dues paying sort of club as opposed to the instant information, virtual club is liability insurance. If a club ever moves from the pop up sort of event to one where the general public might attend insurance is sooner or later going to rear its head. And all the rules , costs that comes with liability coverage.  Keep it small, keep it spur of the moment thanks to instant information and you have it made. But not something keeping vintage cars in the public eye.

 

Greg in Canada

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30 minutes ago, 1912Staver said:

One big part of the organized,  dues paying sort of club as opposed to the instant information, virtual club is liability insurance. If a club ever moves from the pop up sort of event to one where the general public might attend insurance is sooner or later going to rear its head. And all the rules , costs that comes with liability coverage.  Keep it small, keep it spur of the moment thanks to instant information and you have it made. But not something keeping vintage cars in the public eye.

 

Greg in Canada

 

We have always done meet ups at another event, that way not a worry.  Big national clubs provide that and are great at that and is why I belong to the Aaca, HCCA, and CCCA.  At large scale that makes complete sense.  Or there are plenty of cars shows that you can meet up at and do a small tour to the show.   In Michigan there is a car show within 30 miles of you every day of the week during the summer on either the East side or the West side of the state.  Our local HCCA group did a small tour to a flag day car show in Grand Rapids on Friday.   It was put together in less than two weeks.  Now with Marc you paid the national club and got the big benefits then you paid the local club and that did not cover any insurance as the national club covered that.  Just paid for printing, renting meeting rooms, postage and other stuff throughout the year.   

 

There are are probably three types of groups and one size or method does not fit all

 

1. National club like the AACA

2. Local or regional club 

3. Registry or support org for a particular marquee  

 

All three have different purposes and serve a different role and each will have their own method of modernization with some methods being shared across all three. 

Edited by kfle (see edit history)
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3 hours ago, 1937hd45 said:

True about the iPhone people , the one week TV "restorations" aren't doing anything about teaching reality. On the other hand, can they fund a car build by staring into that cell phone while typing away?

You might be surprised!  My iPhone usage is probably 3 hours a day as I am working and getting things done.  I can work anywhere at anytime and do.  It’s being always connected and efficiency.   What used to take three hours of research to find at a library or looking in a file cabinet at a business can now be found on your phone in minutes.  I also use a very well known restoration shop for my cars.  I am learning more and more and doing work on my cars now for more things but not everything yet.  

 

I have found the pre war cars to be a great escape from the always on connected world of today and I know others who are feeling the same.  

 

Message posted from my iPhone just like my other messages today as I have been at a car show, at the store, doing yard work, and out on the lake.   These devices help you stay connected in real time as you are doing things and having fun.  People aren’t just sharing cat photos like internet memes suggest.

Edited by kfle (see edit history)
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John,

     Although many of collector car owners are aging out of the hobby, the number of true collector cars is not decreasing.  I believe we are seeing a slump in activity as aging collectors quit driving or pass away.  Their cars will eventually find homes with relatives and even some younger collectors.  But I expect that many of the rarer cars will find homes in museums and larger collections and will not be driven much if at all.  And that will be an unfortunate loss for everyone.  

     As in any hobby with collectables, activity and market values are cyclical.  I believe collector cars made by long dead craftsmen will always be more valuable than modern "jellybean cars" made by robots.  

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1 hour ago, Mark Shaw said:

 But I expect that many of the rarer cars will find homes in museums and larger collections and will not be driven much if at all.  And that will be an unfortunate loss for everyone.  

 

 

It seems to me that most car museums are private enterprises calling themselves "museums". They function as museums during the lifetime of whoever originally funded them but very few seem to survive the demise of the founder. They aren't museums in the same sense as the Met or the National Portrait Gallery. Lots of "museum" cars come up for sale - it is a regular topic of discussion here because the seller usually takes that description as meaning something good while the informed buyer has an altogether different view of museum cars. Even the museums that do stay in business are often "deaccessioning" things. This can be a major bone of contention when someone donates dad's beloved automobile to a museum and two years later it appears on the auction block - but that is the reality of the museum world.

 

Cars are really too complicated and require too much maintenance for most museums to take care of properly. If they were really concerned about the artifacts, they ought to be a lot more selective in what they accept - but then, if they can sell them and keep the money why be picky.

Edited by JV Puleo (see edit history)
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4 hours ago, 1937hd45 said:

True about the iPhone people , the one week TV "restorations" aren't doing anything about teaching reality. On the other hand, can they fund a car build by staring into that cell phone while typing away?

 

I fund my hobby doing pretty much exactly that, I work in IT and do a lot of my work via my mobile. 

 

Then again, not many people in there 30’s have 97 year old cars 🤔

 

It certainly hasn’t been a quick process, but I’ve learned a lot. I’ve done all of the assembly work at home (machine work I don’t have the equipment for) including new rings, checking all the bearings and replacing a damaged top cover (that holds the Cam)

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On 6/14/2019 at 12:31 PM, 1912Staver said:

 

 But the people willing to devote a large part of their lives to the understanding of many as possible of the numerous aspects of old cars are a truly threatened group.  They are often not part of that top 20% or so whose affluence increases each year.

Usually not wealthy enough to belong to the "arrive and drive"  group, and increasingly not wealthy enough to make the uphill, lifelong journey worthwhile or practical.

 

 

 

In order to have a productive analysis on this topic and determine how to optimize for the future we need to stop using generalizations based on stereotypes.  In this thread I have seen many examples of this such as the next generation Is always on their phone or they are so broke.  They don’t make any money so they could never buy a car.  Here is an interesting piece of info that I just saw today in the Detroit free press:

 

To be sure, many millennials do not fit stereotypes, such as being difficult to manage, impatient and unsatisfied with work.

Not all millennials are wondering how they're going to pay the next cell phone bill, either. 

As a group, millennial households — ages 23 to 38 in 2019 — now earn more than young adults did in nearly any time in the past 50 years, according to a Pew Research Center analysis of new census data. 

The median adjusted income in a household headed by a millennial was $69,000 in 2017, according to the Pew study. That is a higher figure than for nearly every other year on record, apart from around 2000, when households headed by younger people earned $67,600 in inflation-adjusted dollars.

 

so as we see based on actual US data, millennials are earning more than any previous time in the last 50 years except for 2000.  Here is the link to the actual article about a hair dresser making over $200k per year in Detroit. https://www.freep.com/story/money/personal-finance/susan-tompor/2019/06/15/aesthetic-hair-co-alex-pardoe-detroit/1298297001/

 

Now whether they live in a high rent place like California or New York is a factor and who knows if they would be interested in pre war cars, but let’s not assume that the new generation is worse off than previous generations and make hasty generalizations. 

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40 minutes ago, kfle said:

The median adjusted income in a household headed by a millennial was $69,000 in 2017

 

If the argument is that a FAMILY earning $69,000 per year is in a position to cover any but the most basic living expenses I suggest one draw up a mock budget including taxes, food, housing, medical insurance, transportation, clothing etc. etc. etc. Just for laughs throw in the average 1.8 children (The price tag, in today's dollars, for a baby born in 2015: about $233,610 from birth through age 17 for a middle-income family). Note: That's PER CHILD to age 17 and does not include savings towards a secondary education.

I'm curious to know what the amount left over to restore, maintain and show that 19**  Belch Fire 8 might be. Don't forget to include the $100 rubber chicken banquet tickets, $150 per night room cost, road food and the $25 per day trailer parking fee and fuel and tolls. Lets figure on two maybe three shows a year.............Hey.........I'm just sayin.............Bob

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I support my family of 5 for less than $69,000 a year.  I can tell you where every penny I make goes.  It can be done if you budget and live in an area with a low cost of living.

 

I just paid cash for a barely used camper yesterday.  Debt free other than the mortgage.

Edited by 39BuickEight (see edit history)
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Cost of living varies greatly from state to state, city to city.

If you make in the low 6 figures in So Cal you can barely afford a decent neighborhood and one collector car.

But move that income to somewhere like Kentucky and you're rolling in the dough.

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1 hour ago, Bhigdog said:

I'm curious to know what the amount left over to restore, maintain and show that 19**  Belch Fire 8 might be. Don't forget to include the $100 rubber chicken banquet tickets, $150 per night room cost, road food and the $25 per day trailer parking fee and fuel and tolls. Lets figure on two maybe three shows a year.............Hey.........I'm just sayin.............Bob

Skip the shows and put the money in the car.  

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16 hours ago, kfle said:

This is absolutely the most important thing.  We launched the website in October and I have been shocked by how many people visit and are searching for information.  With only 77 known cars to exist and a relatively obscure brand, it is easy to assume that you would have to be an owner to want to search for information or be interested in Cole.  Well, here are the stats for the site since launch in October as of this morning:

 

The biggest challenge is to get your search engine optimization right with Google and others.  We have worked on this and have risen in the search rankings when someone searches for Cole motor car company or a specific year or make of a Cole car.  The site is not popping up when people search in Google and this started happening in probably March or so.  A good example of this is from October to the Dec 31 2018, our biggest referrer was Facebook with sending 109 visitors to the website and only 57 visitors coming from search engines.  In 2019 since about March we have 278 visitors coming from Search engines like Google and about 87 from Facebook and 22 from Wikipedia.  We are now averaging 3 visitors per day from search engines so it is picking up.  

 

That's awesome.   Really, I think you're doing it perfectly.  A few years back I was very interested in buying a 1921 HCS 5-passenger touring, and I was surprised about how little there was online about the cars. They were really cool: HCS stands for Harry C. Stutz, and he started HCS after he left Stutz.  They're high-end cars from the early 20s that are pretty similar to Stutzes.  They are Full Classics, too, although I don't think they were back when I was thinking of buying one.   Anyway, I remember thinking that if I bought the car I would want to create a website and a registry and do what I could to raise awareness of the car and link owners -- pretty much exactly what you did for the Cole.  But I didn't buy the car, so it never happened.

 

 

Edited by 1935Packard (see edit history)
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17 hours ago, 1912Staver said:

One big part of the organized,  dues paying sort of club as opposed to the instant information, virtual club is liability insurance.

AACA has liability insurance for all of its members while attending an AACA event or show.  Of course it is backup insurance to your own liability insurance.  Attending Cruise-ins that are out there unassociated with an organized club such as AACA opens you to all sorts of liability.  Another thing, who do you think sponsors this thread and all on the other threads you participate in here on this web site.  It is AACA.

Edited by Dynaflash8 (see edit history)
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10 hours ago, hidden_hunter said:

 

I fund my hobby doing pretty much exactly that, I work in IT and do a lot of my work via my mobile. 

 

Then again, not many people in there 30’s have 97 year old cars 🤔

 

It certainly hasn’t been a quick process, but I’ve learned a lot. I’ve done all of the assembly work at home (machine work I don’t have the equipment for) including new rings, checking all the bearings and replacing a damaged top cover (that holds the Cam)

Another way to fund a restoration is buying and selling car parts, either on eBay or as a vendor at big flea markets (called by different names in different parts of the country).  I never used the money I made that way in my regular household funding.  Somebody mentioned budgeting.  Budgeting correctly can do miracles for a person.

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8 hours ago, auburnseeker said:

What I pay in Property tax every year I could buy a new Full size 4 wheel drive extended cab Pickup every 5 years. 

I would say move, but there are many reasons people can't move.....job or job specialties, and so on.  Even the cost of moving is more than the cost of a good old car.  I was just quoted $14,000 to move 200 miles (of course if we weren't 80 and 79 we could do a lot of that in our car trailer!)

If I wanted to go back to Virginia the cost was $18,500 (900 miles).  That is the only good thing about Florida in my opinion....no state income tax.  On the other hand real estate tax was half of what I pay in Florida when I lived in rural Virginia.....I stress rural.

Edited by Dynaflash8 (see edit history)
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8 hours ago, zepher said:

Cost of living varies greatly from state to state, city to city.

If you make in the low 6 figures in So Cal you can barely afford a decent neighborhood and one collector car.

But move that income to somewhere like Kentucky and you're rolling in the dough.

  Which is why people shouldn’t live in places like that if they aren’t making enough.  It’s all a choice and where they put their priorities.  I chose a decent career in a place where my dollar goes farther.  

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8 hours ago, auburnseeker said:

What I pay in Property tax every year I could buy a new Full size 4 wheel drive extended cab Pickup every 5 years. 

 

But your property is amazing, at least what you have shown us in your shop thread.  It makes more sense to have an amazing property than, say, a depreciating truck.  I see that backwards situation all the time.  We all do.  Someone with higher car payments than their house.  That’s a quick way to get nowhere.

 

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I have an interest in pre WWII cars.  The earlier the better!  However, a few stumbling blocks here:

 

1.  Property & property taxes.  Believe me, if I could be retired, I would be!  Retirement occurs way too late in this country, which seems contradictory to a well educated workforce in an environment where very little is manufactured.  But that's the subject matter of a thread all its own.  Which means I need a job and have to live where I work.  I simply cannot find anything I can afford on my salary that allows for more than a small lot and a 2 bay garage.  The few places I can find with more space need a ton of work, so they aren't really affordable in the end, and the wife ain't happy. .

 

2.  The wife ain't happy.  Doesn't want to look at cars that often aren't running...

 

3.  I am self taught in all I do.  Which means that most of the time nothing runs, and I spend a lot of time figuring out how to get anything to run.

 

4.  I'm not retired.  Which means I don't have a lot of free time.  Which means I spend more time than I have to get something to run...and still it doesn't run.  And the wife ain't happy...

 

Believe me, if I could have a huge barn full of pre WWII cars I would!

 

I have this recurring dream.  The year is 1946.  I survived WWII.  All these early cars are cheap and unwanted.  Real estate is cheap, for lots of it.  Jobs are plentiful and wages actually rise substantially from year to year <Sigh>

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That's a Merc made in the last century as opposed to the blue one in my sig. It helps to have a complete one to compare while going through a project and I like retractibles. The difference is my '01 is an For me being a Floridian has a lot more advantages than just no income tax (because few in Florida have incomes other than retirement). No rust is one that matters to me and I live far enough inland for the storms to be mitigated and no salt in the air. Just saw gas at $2.35 for regular. And a beach vacation is about 2 hours away when wanted. After a strange May temperatures are in the high 80s (often in summer we are cooler than other places.

 

Also have a 2,000 sq ft house with 2,000 sq ft of garage in a development with sidewalks & a crow mile from Universal studios. I like living in a resort. Have a 3% mortgage mainly as a hedge against inflation. After 35 years with a major warmonger have a comfortable retirement.

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2 hours ago, 39BuickEight said:

But your property is amazing, at least what you have shown us in your shop thread.  It makes more sense to have an amazing property than, say, a depreciating truck.  I see that backwards situation all the time.  We all do.  Someone with higher car payments than their house.  That’s a quick way to get nowhere.

 

We live as cheaply as possible.  The main reason we have such a nice piece of property.

We go out for dinner maybe 3 or 4 times a year (usually using gift cards someone gave us) Excluding Hershey, which I can write off as a business trip,  but then again we eat at Soda Jerks.  Using points on a business credit card I have (that I pay off monthly)  we are even staying for free in Hershey this year. 

The wife is a notorious Couponer and tries to buy everything on sale as well. 

 We chose to live here because this is where my wife wanted to live (main reason and Hard to argue with that without an Attorney, ) and it was close to family,  though honestly not close enough,  so we don't end up doing much with them because they are all over an hour to 3 hours away.  The closest one I really got along with well divorced and moved away a year or two after we moved here. 

I drive a 13 year old truck.,  The wife's is newer but when you buy a Toyota in the Northeast,  you buy new or pay as much for a 4 year old one with 50KMI and rust.  Liquidated an old car and paid cash for hers so no payments there.   Our only payment is the mortgage and related expenses (property tax, Insurance etc. )  Fortunately we even have much of that paid off and the building project is paid for to date.  You don't get ahead paying someone else interest.   

As you mentioned I did look at properties further south this winter when it was really drawing on,  but with our set up it's hard to find anything comparable that I really liked, again in a price range we could sell ours and buy in at the point where we are at.  

 

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24 minutes ago, auburnseeker said:

We live as cheaply as possible.  The main reason we have such a nice piece of property.

We go out for dinner maybe 3 or 4 times a year (usually using gift cards someone gave us) Excluding Hershey, which I can write off as a business trip,  but then again we eat at Soda Jerks.  Using points on a business credit card I have (that I pay off monthly)  we are even staying for free in Hershey this year. 

The wife is a notorious Couponer and tries to buy everything on sale as well. 

 We chose to live here because this is where my wife wanted to live (main reason and Hard to argue with that without an Attorney, ) and it was close to family,  though honestly not close enough,  so we don't end up doing much with them because they are all over an hour to 3 hours away.  The closest one I really got along with well divorced and moved away a year or two after we moved here. 

I drive a 13 year old truck.,  The wife's is newer but when you buy a Toyota in the Northeast,  you buy new or pay as much for a 4 year old one with 50KMI and rust.  Liquidated an old car and paid cash for hers so no payments there.   Our only payment is the mortgage and related expenses (property tax, Insurance etc. )  Fortunately we even have much of that paid off and the building project is paid for to date.  You don't get ahead paying someone else interest.   

As you mentioned I did look at properties further south this winter when it was really drawing on,  but with our set up it's hard to find anything comparable that I really liked, again in a price range we could sell ours and buy in at the point where we are at.  

 

 

You are a man after my own heart and should be an insperation to the majority of folks drowning in housing and credit card debt. But likely you won't be to the " I want it and I want it NOW " people.............Bob

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3 hours ago, 39BuickEight said:

  Which is why people shouldn’t live in places like that if they aren’t making enough.  It’s all a choice and where they put their priorities.  I chose a decent career in a place where my dollar goes farther.  

Saw Zephyr mention Kentucky and as an FYI best looking into Kentucky personal property tax as historically has been a reason why so few collector cars are in the State.

Edited by John_Mereness (see edit history)
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2 minutes ago, John_Mereness said:

Saw Zephyr mention Kentucky and as an FYI best looking into Kentucky personal property tax as historically has been a reason why so few collector cars are in the State.

Taxes are really low here.  The reason there aren’t as many cars is because of the population and general content among many to live paycheck to paycheck.  When you are the opposite of that, it works well for stretching a dollar.

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48 minutes ago, auburnseeker said:

We live as cheaply as possible.  The main reason we have such a nice piece of property.

We go out for dinner maybe 3 or 4 times a year (usually using gift cards someone gave us) Excluding Hershey, which I can write off as a business trip,  but then again we eat at Soda Jerks.  Using points on a business credit card I have (that I pay off monthly)  we are even staying for free in Hershey this year. 

The wife is a notorious Couponer and tries to buy everything on sale as well. 

 We chose to live here because this is where my wife wanted to live (main reason and Hard to argue with that without an Attorney, ) and it was close to family,  though honestly not close enough,  so we don't end up doing much with them because they are all over an hour to 3 hours away.  The closest one I really got along with well divorced and moved away a year or two after we moved here. 

I drive a 13 year old truck.,  The wife's is newer but when you buy a Toyota in the Northeast,  you buy new or pay as much for a 4 year old one with 50KMI and rust.  Liquidated an old car and paid cash for hers so no payments there.   Our only payment is the mortgage and related expenses (property tax, Insurance etc. )  Fortunately we even have much of that paid off and the building project is paid for to date.  You don't get ahead paying someone else interest.   

As you mentioned I did look at properties further south this winter when it was really drawing on,  but with our set up it's hard to find anything comparable that I really liked, again in a price range we could sell ours and buy in at the point where we are at.  

 

Sounds familiar.  Our daily is a 2002 with no intent to swap it out.  We grocery shop with a meal list on payday every 2 weeks and spend right at $250 every 2 weeks to feed the entire family.  We don’t ever eat out either unless we are on vacation.  We do take 2 weeks worth of great vacations and several camping trips per year.  That’s all budgeted.  We don’t go to movies when they are soon  $1.49 at Red Box.  I tell the kids we can eat McDonalds and Five Guys every week and go see new movies or we can go to Disney.  They get it.

 

My collector car spending/restoration budget and practices are well documented on here.  I fully restored my car, paint, interior, and all, for less than $15,000 and I still have a few thousand in extra parts to sell.

 

I have a rule, I don’t buy anything I don’t truly need unless I can resell for the same or more.  I bought our old pop up camper for $2500 4 years ago that I am selling for $4000.  The new used one I bought Friday books for $13,300 and I paid $8700.  I can use it for 5 years and still come out even/ahead.  

 

The are ways to participate in this great hobby of a person puts it as a priority.  If not, that’s ok, but don’t choose to spend on other things and then say the hobby it too expensive.  It’s always a choice.   We all make different ones.

 

 

 

 

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1 hour ago, mrcvs said:

I have an interest in pre WWII cars.  The earlier the better!  However, a few stumbling blocks here:

 

1.  Property & property taxes.  Believe me, if I could be retired, I would be!  Retirement occurs way too late in this country, which seems contradictory to a well educated workforce in an environment where very little is manufactured.  But that's the subject matter of a thread all its own.  Which means I need a job and have to live where I work.  I simply cannot find anything I can afford on my salary that allows for more than a small lot and a 2 bay garage.  The few places I can find with more space need a ton of work, so they aren't really affordable in the end, and the wife ain't happy. .

 

2.  The wife ain't happy.  Doesn't want to look at cars that often aren't running...

 

3.  I am self taught in all I do.  Which means that most of the time nothing runs, and I spend a lot of time figuring out how to get anything to run.

 

4.  I'm not retired.  Which means I don't have a lot of free time.  Which means I spend more time than I have to get something to run...and still it doesn't run.  And the wife ain't happy...

 

Believe me, if I could have a huge barn full of pre WWII cars I would!

 

I have this recurring dream.  The year is 1946.  I survived WWII.  All these early cars are cheap and unwanted.  Real estate is cheap, for lots of it.  Jobs are plentiful and wages actually rise substantially from year to year <Sigh>

It takes a lot of planning and budgeting.  I was born in 1938, didn't go to college, stayed 37 years in a job I didn't my first and only job after high school.  You do something extra like buy & sell old car parts, play in a band, something you can do and keep the money separate, and then pick a car I like that most others don't like that runs.  Forget how it looks.  Fix it up over however many years it takes.  I started on mine in 1963 and finished it in 1981.  It's still in my garage, and in the picture to the left.  As for the two car garage, well I lengthened this one in Florida for two extra bays.  Not perfect..........I have  to move out a modern car to get one of the old ones out.  But it was doable.  Everybody has a different set of obstacles to overcome, but it can be done.

 

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2 hours ago, padgett said:

That's a Merc made in the last century as opposed to the blue one in my sig. It helps to have a complete one to compare while going through a project and I like retractibles. The difference is my '01 is an For me being a Floridian has a lot more advantages than just no income tax (because few in Florida have incomes other than retirement). No rust is one that matters to me and I live far enough inland for the storms to be mitigated and no salt in the air. Just saw gas at $2.35 for regular. And a beach vacation is about 2 hours away when wanted. After a strange May temperatures are in the high 80s (often in summer we are cooler than other places.

 

Also have a 2,000 sq ft house with 2,000 sq ft of garage in a development with sidewalks & a crow mile from Universal studios. I like living in a resort. Have a 3% mortgage mainly as a hedge against inflation. After 35 years with a major warmonger have a comfortable retirement.

Sounds like Sebring.....89-100 miles to both coasts, Orlando & Tampa; 155 to Miami.  And it's the deadest place this side of sitting hours in an empty room.  I have everything you've mentioned except your blue car, but mine is a new Chrysler instead and a red hot 2103 Dodge Charger.

It's also the same 80-100 miles to any real hospital where you can get any serious surgery done like a heart valve transplant through the leg.  Well, that was true in Montross, VA too.  Thee is no old car activity, only cruise-ins with modifieds and then only in the fall, winter, and spring.  But we did have decent old car activity and a working club in Montross, VA where car insurance wasn't "no-fault" and car insurance for 3 modern vehicles was $1300.  Of course there was still snow.  So, sounds like someplace like Lake City, FL is most like Montross to me, except there is no snow.

Going 100 miles to Orlando to see the cardiac surgeon took nearly 3 hours through world class awful traffic on I-4.

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I bought my house in southern California in 1988 for $120,000 and sold it in 2001 for $153,000. Wow, did I sell too soon. It was a SMALL 2 bedroom 1 bath with a carport, something like this one in the picture.

Photo of 4612 W 160th St, Lawndale, CA 90260

 

$570,000 (Pending)
  Est. Payment $2,191/mo

4612 W 160th St, Lawndale, CA 90260

  • 2 beds
  • 1 bath
  • 675 sq ft
  • 5,827 sqft lot

Image result for 4207 154th street lawndale, CA

 

That was my actual house, the one with the palm tree. It is not on the market now. 680 Square feet. 4,500 square foot lot.

 

Edited by mike6024 (see edit history)
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19 hours ago, TerryB said:

Mercedes Benz

 

The other brands you mentioned I would need to see the logo on the front.  I’m 67 yrs old.

I'll be 69 in December so I guess age has it advantages, joining the hobby when I was 10 also helped. . Bob 

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1 hour ago, mike6024 said:

Image result for 4207 154th street lawndale, CA

That was my actual house, the one with the palm tree. It is not on the market now. 680 Square feet. 4,500 square foot lot.

 

For those living in high-cost areas, may I suggest

small-town Pennsylvania?  Come to a state where

antique cars are respected, there are plenty of 

country roads for driving, and where the cost of living 

is reasonable.  Here's a typical small house gleaned from

the internet:  3 bedrooms, 2 baths, $139,000.  The perfect

size for a retired couple!  Property taxes for this house are

about $2000 a year.  With the money you save, you

could buy a Ford Model A and a Duesenberg Model A:

 

ISuc16t1tayz2z0000000000.jpg

 

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On 6/15/2019 at 11:12 AM, padgett said:

Still think the hobby is more diluting than waning, there are just so many more choices. Take my current no-rush project (still in collecting parts stage & two in local yards). No rust or dents, all glass intact, runs and drives, some assembly required, under a grand (under $100 in 1960 and would have been a '40 then) invested.

passide800.jpg

 

I don't want be accused of bashing your posts again, but I believe the war they are speaking of when they mention  pre-war cars is WWII, not Iraqi Freedom 

Edited by John348 (see edit history)
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1 hour ago, John348 said:

 

I don't want be accused of bashing your posts again, but I believe the war they are speaking of when they mention  pre-war cars is WWII, not Iraqi Freedom 

 

Back in the 1990s I had a fairly long discussion with a fellow hobbyist that involved how hard it was becoming to find parts for pre-war cars. It took me a little time to figure out that while I was thinking pre-WW2, he was thinking pre-WW1. :)

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