Dynaflash8

Is hobby interest in pre-WWII cars Dying?

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I decided to give him another dozen days, since the car is still advertised.  Somebody is talking to him about the car at this moment, and if I don't have to sell it myself,, I will welcome that.  I went up there and looked at it in the showroom and was satisfied it was being well taken care of.  My surgery has been postponed until after I see the surgeon on June 14 and he takes a week-long vacation after that.  So, June 21 at the earliest I guess.

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20 minutes ago, Dynaflash8 said:

I decided to give him another dozen days, since the car is still advertised.  Somebody is talking to him about the car at this moment, and if I don't have to sell it myself,, I will welcome that.  I went up there and looked at it in the showroom and was satisfied it was being well taken care of.  My surgery has been postponed until after I see the surgeon on June 14 and he takes a week-long vacation after that.  So, June 21 at the earliest I guess.

Hope all goes well for you both in car sales and surgery outcomes, especially the surgery.

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I saw some CCCA comments:

 

As with any club, social organization, business, your neighbors, or what have you - there will be things that you like and things that you do not like, but most people find their niche.  Also, the publications are very nice, the Grand Classics events are awesome, and ... Also, there are some of us that grew up with CCCA cars and perhaps our priorities are different as we would have nothing else in the garage. 

 

The CCCA tailors to cars that were higher end to begin with and often the cost of the car is higher end too (aka the cars are far from free priced and even when you look at age old prices you may say "that was free," but in reality it was still a chunk of change compared to daily living expenses and ...

 

There are very affordable cars in pretty much any bracket (obviously, the lower the price the more work needed or 

 

I saw a very nice 1931 Cadillac V-12 Sedan sell for 26K roughly at Mecum last week and it is already registered with RM with a 40K to 50 car estimated price (but someone else could have stuck their paddle up at Mecum and had a great car for the rest of their life), Pierce Arrow's, Lincoln's, and Franklin's tend to be a good value and for some time now, 40's Packard's, Cadillac's, and Lincolns are a good value too (plus incredible road cars when properly sorted), and there have been some reasonable priced off brand cars and sedans recently.  Convertibles of course tend to be more, but they also cost more in every other era of car since 1900's to today and pretty much any brand too.

 

 

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Very interesting thread. 

 

There’s a scene from “Inherit the Wind” where the two lead characters are talking about their past friendship, and Brady asks Drummond why after all their years of being on the same side of things, they’re now so far apart. Drummond’s reply: “All motion is relative. Perhaps it is you who have moved away by standing still.”

 

Markets change, interests and styles and priorities change right along with them. I wonder if manufacturers of horse collars and open carriages were having the same conversation just over 100 years ago? “Where has all the interest gone in surreys and buckboards?” ;)

 

About an hour from me, there’s a guy who’s working on an early 30’s Packard roadster. Evidently a rare model, from what I understand, and would command a price somewhere north of $225k when fully restored. But that price (like all asking prices) is dependent on someone who happens to be looking for that particular Packard, and has the cash in hand. Otherwise, it’s an overpriced niche hobby item which is too rare and valuable to drive regularly, and will just sit. 

 

I love my two Buicks, because I think they’re beautiful. Does everyone else on the planet think so? Nope. Had one great experience at a car show a few years ago, where I was sitting near (but not directly beside) my ‘53 Special, and a couple strolls by and starts verbally trashing my car for several minutes, not knowing the owner was in earshot. We’ve all met these people at shows, but it gave me a nice sense of perspective; I shouldn’t ever expect that everyone will see the car the same way I do, and my sense of value is coloured by my emotional involvement. 

 

Earl: your ‘39 is a striking looking car, and someone out there will want to take it home and enjoy it. 

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JBP:  For what it is worth, I've like all 1953 Buicks since I saw the first one at the Washington, DC auto show that year.  I guess I was 15 years old at the time.  My uncle had a 1953 Special 2dr hardtop for a long time.  I could have had it, but didn't have a space for it where I lived at the time in Maryland.  Even my '39 sidemounted sedan was sitting outside until we bought a new home in in Maryland 1966.  His hardtop (45R?) had only 37,000 miles on it at the time. 

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On 5/24/2019 at 12:07 PM, MCHinson said:

Earl,

 

I seem to have spent a lot of time buying high and selling low too. Maybe that is why you and I are friends. Luckily for me, I should still have a couple of decades to enjoy driving my prewar Buicks. I probably have more money in my 1937 Century than I should, but I have had a lot of fun with it. By the time I finish restoring the 1938 Century it will cost me more than I can probaby ever sell it for, but after a couple of decades in the hobby, I wanted to be able to say that I had done a total restoration. 

 

A lot of people invested a lot of money in a lot of different items, not just antique cars, that turned out to not be great financial investments. At least with antique cars, you can have fun in the hobby. 

 

 

But a hobby shouldn’t be about making money, should be about enjoying what you have :) (on the topic of spending more to restore than its worth, so I’m saying it’s good to spend more than worth to save a vehicle. Will hopefully get the chance to do that with a 4cyl Willy’s Knight).

 

If no one bothered to restore cars because they “aren’t worth the cost”, then there’d be waaaaay less old vehicles surviving, and no matter how common they may be, that’s still a loss IMO, when they could have been saved but everyone went “not worth it.”.

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Long, but interesting thread,  I wish Earl good luck.  I've enjoyed seeing that car on AACA Tours over the years. 

The nice big Buick makes a great tour car and will carry lots of appreciative friends.  I too enjoy skirts bur realize it's not everybody's cup of tea.  They are part of the streamlined look started by the Airflows of Chrysler Corp in 1934. 

On several National Tours,  Earl & Doug Seybold both drove yellow Buick Convertible sedans.  Earl I hope you let Doug know yours is available as well as the Buick Clubs.  At some point your desire to sell will be matched with another guy's desire to

own and he'll think he paid to much and you'll think you gave it away, but both will be happy the deal is done.

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1 hour ago, Paul Dobbin said:

Long, but interesting thread,  I wish Earl good luck.  I've enjoyed seeing that car on AACA Tours over the years. 

The nice big Buick makes a great tour car and will carry lots of appreciative friends.  I too enjoy skirts bur realize it's not everybody's cup of tea.  They are part of the streamlined look started by the Airflows of Chrysler Corp in 1934. 

On several National Tours,  Earl & Doug Seybold both drove yellow Buick Convertible sedans.  Earl I hope you let Doug know yours is available as well as the Buick Clubs.  At some point your desire to sell will be matched with another guy's desire to

own and he'll think he paid to much and you'll think you gave it away, but both will be happy the deal is done.

Doug is into 1940 and 1941 Buicks.  I've never seen him drive a '39, except one time he brought a Roadmaster phaeton to a National Meet for a customer.  He, Terry Boyce, myself and maybe some other folks worked together to get the 1940 and 1941 Buick Series 70 (Roadmaster) accepted as a Full Classic by CCCA.  I alone (as far  as I know) got the CCCA to accept the 1931-1939 Series 80 (Roadmaster) and I got the Series 90 into CCCA back in the 1970's.

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1 hour ago, Licespray said:

 

But a hobby shouldn’t be about making money, should be about enjoying what you have :) (on the topic of spending more to restore than its worth, so I’m saying it’s good to spend more than worth to save a vehicle. Will hopefully get the chance to do that with a 4cyl Willy’s Knight).

 

If no one bothered to restore cars because they “aren’t worth the cost”, then there’d be waaaaay less old vehicles surviving, and no matter how common they may be, that’s still a loss IMO, when they could have been saved but everyone went “not worth it.”. 

My Dad had a 1925 Willys-Knight when he was dating my Mom.    Good luck with that one. 

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1 hour ago, Licespray said:

But a hobby shouldn’t be about making money, should be about enjoying what you have :) (on the topic of spending more to restore than its worth, so I’m saying it’s good to spend more than worth to save a vehicle. Will hopefully get the chance to do that with a 4cyl Willy’s Knight).

 

If no one bothered to restore cars because they “aren’t worth the cost”, then there’d be waaaaay less old vehicles surviving, and no matter how common they may be, that’s still a loss IMO, when they could have been saved but everyone went “not worth it.”. 

When I restored my 1939 Buick Special convertible coupe I wanted an AACA National Award and I never worried about losing money.  That time when I got sick I sold it to the St. Louis Car Museum and took a $22,500 loss and took it with only a cringe.  When I sold the 1941 Buick 71-C I actually made $1,800 on it (I think).  I just finished restoring a 1941 Buick Roadmaster 71 sedan and did it with my eyes open.  I fully expect to lose another $20,000-25,000 when I get ready to sell.  This '39 Special convertible sedan was different.  I bough it for $1,700, a friend restored it and he worked for $10/hr.  I sold it in 1985 probably at a very good profit, but bought it back in 2000 for $7500 more than I sold it for.  I just loved the car and wanted it back.  My late father-in-law found the Trippe lights under the front porch of an old house and I restored them.  They have been on a number of my cars.  I really didn't want to sell them, although I don't have a car I want to put them on after restoring them. (you know, sentimental).  If I bring it home I will definitely take them off.  After I got the car back I had an expensive new top made for it, upgraded the paint work and weatherstrip rubber, had new glass installed, and recently installed a re-cored radiator.  I purposely did not go into extensive re-restoration because I thought time would help me get a fair price for the car for my older than now old age.  For the most part I've never made any money on my cars.  In the seventies a partner and I cleaned out Buick garages and we sold many NOS parts, but I kept all the '39 parts for my two cars and myself.  But, it looks like this car is not going to be the nest-egg I thought it would be, but I don't think I'll lose money on it, just expected money.  I thought it was worth in the high 40K's and insured it for that.  The dealer set his asking price based on what I wanted and thought the car was worth.  I went to visit it the other day and took several pictures of it on the dealer's showroom floor.  I have somehow miracusly (sp?) managed to send one from my new "smart phone" to my computer.  So here it is.  The picture was taken from outside of the showroom.  I'll post the others when I can figure out how I sent this one 😀 .  By the way, Paul Dobbin, you sold that gorgeous '34 Ford that you brought to White Stone, VA for the First Ever AACA Sentimental Tour which I chaired. 😛1784960920_PrincessinShowroomfromoutside.thumb.jpg.9bf00547ad24e1558c8b28400fd24215.jpg

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I was able to send one more.  Two to go if I can figure out the so-called "smart phone". 😀

Princess, front in showroom.jpg

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2 hours ago, Licespray said:

 

But a hobby shouldn’t be about making money, should be about enjoying what you have :) (on the topic of spending more to restore than its worth, so I’m saying it’s good to spend more than worth to save a vehicle. Will hopefully get the chance to do that with a 4cyl Willy’s Knight).

 

If no one bothered to restore cars because they “aren’t worth the cost”, then there’d be waaaaay less old vehicles surviving, and no matter how common they may be, that’s still a loss IMO, when they could have been saved but everyone went “not worth it.”.

 

Exactly.  I restored a non-desirable 1939 Special 4-door after I bought it to simply be a photo prop.  Then, Dad brought up restoring it.  He taught me more than I can ever say.  It was a project that me and my father labored with that is irreplaceable.  Of course I wanted to restore a car with him.   I long for the days I watched him sandblast the frame as I moved the hose around and adjusted the air.  Some say they were glad to see I (we) saved it, while some say I was dumb for picking a car they made 80,000 times over.  It’s my car and I love it.  I’m sure if or when it ever comes time to sell it, I will go through some of these same thought processes, as it will always be worth more to me than anyone else.

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On ‎5‎/‎24‎/‎2019 at 2:12 PM, John_Mereness said:

The CCCA tailors to cars that were higher end to begin with and often the cost of the car is higher end too (aka the cars are far from free priced and even when you look at age old prices you may say "that was free," but in reality it was still a chunk of change compared to daily living expenses and ...

 

But here's the thing on that: many of the costs associated with restoring a car don't depend on model of the car or the value thereof.  That is, tires, paint, engine rebuild etc. for a Chevy may be just about the same as for a significantly more valuable car.  IOW, if you're going to put a big chunk of money into a restoration, put it into a car that can somewhat justify the outlay.

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5 hours ago, JBP said:

About an hour from me, there’s a guy who’s working on an early 30’s Packard roadster. Evidently a rare model, from what I understand, and would command a price somewhere north of $225k when fully restored. But that price (like all asking prices) is dependent on someone who happens to be looking for that particular Packard, and has the cash in hand. Otherwise, it’s an overpriced niche hobby item which is too rare and valuable to drive regularly, and will just sit. 

 

My sense is that the early 30s Packard open car market is relatively predictable, and that there's a set of buyers looking for those cars at the expected market range of prices.   Of course, if your friend has to sell very quickly, or will do an auction without reserve, you never know.  But if he has 2-3 months, he'll get a market price..  My sense, at least.

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Sometimes it seems like the antique car hobby has two problems:  

 

First, the younger generation doesn't care about cars, leading values to drop so our cars aren't worth what they used to be worth. 

 

And second, prices are so high that the average person has been priced out of the market and can't afford the cars.

 

 

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I have with great effort from ignorance managed to send one more picture from my smart phone.  Only one more to go 😀1553347100_Princessinshowroomrearquarter.thumb.jpg.0c216ec2d9f3eb2ce0308e89bc0e92b1.jpg

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Posted (edited)

It’s human nature to aspire to a toy that is one or two levels above what we should have. To expect any tangible item to increase in value forever is not realistic, especially if consumption of the product degrades its condition. It took me a long time to learn this lesson when it comes to cars........the hell with everything.....drive it and have fun. Who cares what it’s worth in the end......consume it, enjoy it, show it, drive it. None of us get out of this world alive.........I spend my money on cars, travel, lifestyle, and a bunch of other ridiculous things........I plan to die broke. Bet I have more fun than 99 percent of the entire human race.............if I succeed in doing that, I expect that I will have lived a good and full life. Every year I continue to enjoy the old car hobby, pushing the limits to the best extent that I can. I highly recommend driving a major CCCA Classic in a four wheel slide around a corner on a strange road,  hell bent for insanity.........engine screaming, wheels screeching, my trusty side kick laughing and screaming that if I miss a curve we are dead......and me laughing that if it happens we will make the national news.......two axxholes having an outrageous amount of fun in a 90 year old car burning up the roads. That’s how I prefer to live.......drive it like you stole it. As I’m sitting here in a bar in Palm Beach writing this, everyone here is gaga with the actress across the bar from me with a Oscar for best actress...(I have never heard of her, or seen a movie she was in)...me........I’m hitting on the twenty year old waitress and asking her if she wants to go for a ride..........and offering her a spin in a car if we have time. I would have never recognized the actress if she wasn’t pointed out to me. Have fun, enjoy life, the years go by faster than the speed of light. We have one chance to live life.........have fun, do good, be kind, make the world a better place.........and have a hell of a lot of fun before you take a dirt nap. It works for me.....

Edited by edinmass (see edit history)
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Posted (edited)

Okay, this is the last one.  It's been good practice trying to send these pictures to my computer, so I could post them here.  The Princess looks pretty darn good in this final picture.  Yet nobody seems to want her.  Over and out!241250381_Princessleftside.thumb.jpg.a762e6029e1a97b0e36d50286704162f.jpg

Edited by Dynaflash8 (see edit history)
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Posted (edited)

EdinMass:

I ain't no wildman like you say you are, but this old Buick has been many places on long, five day tours.  Here I am on a Texas AACA Sentimental Tour, back in 2006 I think it was, way out in Texas......at this time we were in Luckenbach, Texas.  Luckenbach, Texas sure didn't look like I thought it would when I heard the song from Willie and Waylon.  But, it was fun to be there.  Do you notice how well she sits up in the front end..............no snoop dog like these modern cars.  That's what makes the skirts sit her off just right....sort of streamlined in the way us kids liked them in the 1950's.  Just no flipper hubcaps like in the 50's haha.

Our 39 Buick conv sed at Luckenbach, TX.jpg

Edited by Dynaflash8 (see edit history)

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I don’t claim to be wild.......just a guy with gasoline in his veins trying to have as much fun as possible before my time runs out. And as the song says.......I wish a buck was still silver, and a joint was a bad place to be...........👍

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Ed, Can you recommend a safe spectator viewing spot for this years Tour D'Elegance?

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Posted (edited)
24 minutes ago, 1937hd45 said:

Ed, Can you recommend a safe spectator viewing spot for this years Tour D'Elegance?

 

Not in the seat next to me!😎

 

As crazy as this sounds, we are very occupied when on the tour...........so I really don’t pay much attention to the best  roadside spots. I think your best bet is to walk the line of cars in front of the Gooding tent till 830, and then I would head to Carmel as fast as possible to get a parking spot and watch the cars come into town for lunch. That way you get the best of both worlds. The lineup in the early morning is just the owners, so you can interact with them and get great feedback. The best kept secret of pebble beach is the parking lot for the commercial trucks. I spend 75 percent of my time there. Every car and everyone worth seeing is there. Quite simply the best spot on earth if you like cars........nothing compares to the equestrian lot from Wednesday to Saturday. If you want more details pm me with your phone number. Ed

Edited by edinmass (see edit history)
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Posted (edited)

Thanks Ed, I totally agree with all of the above, is the tour run over the same course every year and can Joe Spectator get a map? I'd like to feel the off shore breeze and take photos like this of the finest cars in the world. The line up of transporters is impressive, and everyone seams to be having a good time in that lot. 

 

Bob 

Pebble-Beach-Tour-dElegance.jpg

Edited by 1937hd45 (see edit history)

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