Dynaflash8

Where has all of the interest gone in Pre-War Buicks?

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It may hurt some to suggest this, but advertise it in British, Australian, and Japanese old car publications.  There seems to be a bigger market in these countries than there are here.  Have you ever read the British publication, 'Classic American' magazine?  They can't seem to get enough U.S. cars.

 

Craig

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33 minutes ago, 8E45E said:

It may hurt some to suggest this, but advertise it in British, Australian, and Japanese old car publications.  There seems to be a bigger market in these countries than there are here.  Have you ever read the British publication, 'Classic American' magazine?  They can't seem to get enough U.S. cars.

 

Craig

about 5 years ago, I was in the market for a Volvo PV544 or 120s. I had accompanied my wife to a medical convention, that she was attending in Sweden and I was on the prowl for a Volvo. While engaging in my other passion, fine art photography, I had taken the train out to the Swedish countryside, where I was sure I would find a Volvo. Parked at a restaurant right next to the train station was a 1948 Buick convertible.  I never did find my Volvo on the trip, but I met a lot of Swedish Buck and Cadillac owners, and they are very passionate about prewar and early postwar American machinery.

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On 5/13/2019 at 9:47 PM, Cindy Livingston said:

Some of that stuff is sitting on the shelf in my art closet – unopened!

 

Cindy, ask Buick club members how many new parts that fit their cars and are sitting on shelves in their garages and basements.

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I'm just curious, but have price guides ever reduced the value of a car?  I don't look at price guides.  Sometimes, I remember in Hemmings seeing a graph where prices rise and come down.  

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I think John S. in Pennsylvania hit it right square on the head.  If I had a $50,000.00 car that I was asking $80,000.00 for, I don't think that my door would be beat down with offers.  This sounds like a case of a non-motivated seller.  There is nothing wrong with wanting top dollar out of a vehicle (if the condition warrants it), however, IF the vehicle is needing to be sold, some concessions on both sides will normally be made.  Just something to think about.

 

Terry Wiegand

South Hutchinson, Kansas

 

 

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Your original post: Where has all of the interest gone in Pre-War Buicks?

 

The number of Buicks (1916 and older) listed in the 2017 BCA roster = 145.

The number of Buicks (1916 and older) listed in the 2016 HCCA roster = 490.

 

The HCCA roster does not list nickel era 1916-1942 Buicks, but it would be interesting to see the total pre-1942 numbers. 

However, this clearly shows that the HCCA holds much more interest for prewar (brass era) Buicks. 

 

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On ‎5‎/‎19‎/‎2019 at 10:29 PM, Frank DuVal said:

Hmm, if I was looking for a car and had $35k in cash, I would not be looking at cars that were over $50K. And that is where the car is priced today, $52,500.

 

http://www.mjcclassiccars.com/1939-buick-special-phaeton/

 

 

That's a 'very recent' $10,000 drop.  If not already done, I would run some ebay auctions with reserve.  I would want to see how many 'watchers' and bids.  Start it at ? $25,000??   Then see if it gets an initial bid, which with a reserve it likely will get since the bidder knows he is not obligated.  If it is a 10 day auction, enough eyeballs should see it to get serious bidding - because it is a truly beautiful car.  

 

Auction results from that Limited auction that Pete Phillips just went to do indicate there are buyers with money.  But reaching them is the key. 

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4 hours ago, B Jake Moran said:

That's a 'very recent' $10,000 drop.  If not already done, I would run some ebay auctions with reserve.  I would want to see how many 'watchers' and bids.  Start it at ? $25,000??   Then see if it gets an initial bid, which with a reserve it likely will get since the bidder knows he is not obligated.  If it is a 10 day auction, enough eyeballs should see it to get serious bidding - because it is a truly beautiful car.  

 

Auction results from that Limited auction that Pete Phillips just went to do indicate there are buyers with money.  But reaching them is the key. 

 

It has been on ebay multiple times. The dealer has been starting it at $30,000 and more recently, $29,500 and it has been bid up to $33,433.33 fairly recently. 

 

https://www.ebay.com/itm/1939-Buick-Other-SPECIAL-PHAETON-AACA-NATL-AWARD-WINNER/192895974716?hash=item2ce97efd3c:g:eE0AAOSwqKNcOVGp&vxp=mtr

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If I saw an auction for a car with a reserve and an opening bid of 30G I would expect the seller probably wants atleast 50G so I would just pass.  Reserves are strong deterents in interest especially when coupled to high opening bids.  If you are going to use a reserve start the sucker at 10G and get some interest in it.  The problem is it's already been run through and the more it's run through with the high number the less interest you will garner.  People can also quickly look at completed sales and see it had a high reserve so even starting it with a low number will tell them it can't be bought for 30 or 34,500.    In fact previously interested parties won't even click on it when they see it listed.  I know I don't on similar items I had an interest in.  

There is also the problem that you need two bidders to bid something up to meet the reserve.  There was a lot of literature I wanted and I kept bidding on it,  several times it went through once or twice I bid against someone but a few times no one.   The reserve was never met,  but each time I contacted the seller and said I can't win it or meet the reserve if no one bids against me.  Finally the seller contacted me and told me they would take x  number of dollars,  a good 50,  lower than my highest bid.  So it was a done deal. Who knows what that top bidder was willing to pay. 

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17 hours ago, MCHinson said:

 

It has been on ebay multiple times. The dealer has been starting it at $30,000 and more recently, $29,500 and it has been bid up to $33,433.33 fairly recently. 

 

https://www.ebay.com/itm/1939-Buick-Other-SPECIAL-PHAETON-AACA-NATL-AWARD-WINNER/192895974716?hash=item2ce97efd3c:g:eE0AAOSwqKNcOVGp&vxp=mtr

 

Thank you.  I am back to looking at ebay after many years away.  My playground was CL due to the free ads and easy to use Search Tools.  Now, even though $5 is not a lot, there is a huge drop off on CL.  So I am checking back into ebay. 

 

If it has been on ebay many times, then that is worrisome.  To me, it means those geeks who have specific search interest have seen it.  Time for a regional auction with some more money available? 

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16 hours ago, auburnseeker said:

If I saw an auction for a car with a reserve and an opening bid of 30G I would expect the seller probably wants at least 50G so I would just pass.  Reserves are strong deterrents in interest especially when coupled to high opening bids.  If you are going to use a reserve start the sucker at 10G and get some interest in it.  The problem is it's already been run through and the more it's run through with the high number the less interest you will garner.  People can also quickly look at completed sales and see it had a high reserve so even starting it with a low number will tell them it can't be bought for 30 or 34,500.    In fact previously interested parties won't even click on it when they see it listed.  I know I don't on similar items I had an interest in.  

 

 

Interesting.  I am also surprised it's not in Europe by now.  Those buyers seem to pay for what Americans won't.  Still I find it amazing that a well sorted, well presented 30's convertible sedan in nice colors won't reach $40,000?   Granted $62,500 seems to have been too much but it was not that long ago buyers would push each other over to get a car like this.  This bodes poorly for sedans and closed cars too.

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17 hours ago, auburnseeker said:

If I saw an auction for a car with a reserve and an opening bid of 30G I would expect the seller probably wants atleast 50G so I would just pass.  Reserves are strong deterents in interest especially when coupled to high opening bids.  If you are going to use a reserve start the sucker at 10G and get some interest in it.  The problem is it's already been run through and the more it's run through with the high number the less interest you will garner.  People can also quickly look at completed sales and see it had a high reserve so even starting it with a low number will tell them it can't be bought for 30 or 34,500.    In fact previously interested parties won't even click on it when they see it listed.  I know I don't on similar items I had an interest in.  

There is also the problem that you need two bidders to bid something up to meet the reserve.  There was a lot of literature I wanted and I kept bidding on it,  several times it went through once or twice I bid against someone but a few times no one.   The reserve was never met,  but each time I contacted the seller and said I can't win it or meet the reserve if no one bids against me.  Finally the seller contacted me and told me they would take x  number of dollars,  a good 50,  lower than my highest bid.  So it was a done deal. Who knows what that top bidder was willing to pay. 

 

Great thoughts.  Yes, it makes sense that it takes two to tango...or bid against each other.  If the right eyes aren’t on it, it won’t sell.  Perhaps it can be resolved with a Buy-it-now price.  

 

Out of curiosity, I’d imagine people have gotten comfortable with eBay, but how many “high dollar” cars sell there?  If one is looking to sell for over $50k, then perhaps Mecum or RM Auctions is the better venue, or in a well-advertised online sale / showroom.  The car corral at a BCA or AACA meet may do a better job of getting the car in front of those interested parties who may have the wallets to make a deal.

 

Also, how many people will pay $50k or more based on online photos and a description?  Someone who can pay that can also afford a plane ticket to go see the car in person, or find a trusted third party to look it over.  I’ve made too many deals where it was more spur of the moment and I wouldn’t necessarily have made the purchase either with sober second thought or a thorough inspection (granted, we are talking about lower value vehicles, so travelling didn’t really make economic sense).

 

I think that there are multiple questions going on in the background.  I don’t think it’s fair to say there’s no interest in pre-war Buicks based on the lack of ability to sell one nicely done car at the seller’s price.  I think there is quite a bit of sales activity with respect to pre-war Buicks if we look at lower values.  Not everyone can afford that level of car in the first place, and the price point may deter some who are more interested in a nice driver they can have some fun with.  I’m not saying one can’t have fun with this car (I think it would be a blast), but concern over stone chips or other damage may have potential buyers looking for a car that isn’t as pristine.  The reality is that we could put out the money for this car, but storage is tight and I wouldn’t be able to use it enough to justify the investment.  I have other fun cars that I was able to procure for under $10k that I can enjoy driving without fear of the additional costs to repair the inevitable nicks and scratches.  Different strokes for different folks.

 

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On 5/22/2019 at 12:26 PM, Thriller said:

Also, how many people will pay $50k or more based on online photos and a description?

 

I always figured if they were smart enough to know how to get the money they would be smart enough to cover all the bases on the purchase. It is just an assumption, but even I know how to take nice pictures of a pig. AND if you want to , innocently, misrepresent a car with photos take pictures in a garage or location with collectible items in the background. They get distracted looking at the other items and overlook the subject. You can test this yourself today. Find a picture of your car with stuff in the background, anything. Then take it to coffee Saturday morning and show it to your friends. I guaranty you will get more comments and questions "What's that?" about background stuff than the car. People just have a propensity to do that. Expect it and use it.

 

I gave up on the "two to tango" effect on Ebay years ago. I know how much I want or will get for everything I own. Two clowns bidding give me no confidence and I undervalue nothing.

 

A year or so ago Ebay broadcast that that something like the 2 millionth car was sold through them. I look at completed sales. At least 20 million had to be listed to achieve the 2 million.

 

I firmly believe that an active and participating hobbyist, with a fairly priced car, should be able to pick up the phone and say "I have decided to sell my car. Are you still interested?" Many of you should be able to do it. And if you can't you should know why.

Bernie

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Most of the guys I work for won't even look at a Buick.  Yes, they have 53'/54' skylarks in the collection but thats about it.   They collect Packards and Cadillacs and big brass but nothing in 40's Buicks.  It's a shame because the cars are so good.  Unfortunately the name doesn't bring the prestige that the higher end cars bring.  This means the prices stay lower because the money isn't there.  

 

I did the driving tour and show for the Gilmore prewar.  I had a good day and I enjoyed the steam cars and the starting game that Larry participated in with his Buick truck.   We had around 70 cars for the tour and a few more for the show.  I wish this show would take off more than it has.  Weather has been a problem a couple years but the campus at Gilmore is hard to beat for these cars.    They had a couple driving games that struggled to get people to participate.  We ended up doing them in our 31' Buick to help the event.  We still had the mud under the rear fenders but getting caught in the rain yesterday probably washed some of it away.  

 

Did any of you guys see the pricing for the Buick Limiteds at Mecum in Indy?  I thought they brought more than I expected.  

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2 hours ago, Janousek said:

Did any of you guys see the pricing for the Buick Limiteds at Mecum in Indy?  I thought they brought more than I expected.  

Yes this was discussed in the Buy / Sell Buick forum area. 

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