A. Ballard 35R Posted May 5, 2019 Share Posted May 5, 2019 Followed a few lots yesterday and found some of the prices interesting to say the least. For example - '36 Cord Beverley $56,000 '37 Packard Twelve $39,000 '35 Packard Eight 7 Passenger $35,000 '53 Packard Caribbean $47,000 Above are hammer prices and do not include buyer fee. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John_Mereness Posted May 5, 2019 Share Posted May 5, 2019 (edited) I saw a few great quotes with the best being " The lesson for the day is toys may be a better investment than cars" My quote is "you had better keep up on your maintenance, polishing, and upgrading or you may just take a hit on price no matter how rare and exciting your car is." And, the problem with older restorations is what dollar value it takes to bring them up to snuff. I had a local fellow say to me, great 45 year old restoration and all it really needs is half repainted - well 45 years ago they painted the car for a couple thousand and the paint repair work alone today is going to be I bet 15K to 20K, matched to new 3K tires, and ... - so you cannot compare apples to oranges or perhaps coal to diamonds. There were some highs and some unexpected marginal values. The HCS 6 cylinder went too cheap (a 6 cyl is far from the normal HCS and a fabulous car). The V-16 Marmon went low, but my guess is it had new uninstalled cylinder heads for a reason and not going to be a simple couple hour fix either. The 1932 Nash Advanced Eight Convertible Sedan went far over what was expected (cool car though - The Duesenberg of Kenosha as many say) The RR Ghost did very well. The Model X Duesenberg went well. The Model A Duesenberg went too low - lovely car though very aged condition wise (all be it if goal was to put a 100 point restoration on it price was about right to not loose money when done). I ran out the door to attend a Kentucky Derby party after the Dupont Waterhouse sold for 330K which was 70K under low estimate (and technically perhaps 170k below its fair market value) - which is surprising as it is a ticket to ride to Concours events, very attractive body with a dropped sill line, competent first restoration and competent second restoration on always a solid enough car from new, and most Duponts never see the marketplace. Cars have rocketed in the past few years and my opinion is we are already in a car recession (not a depression) whether anyone wants to acknowledge it or not (which in my opinion means the great stuff does it's thing and the marginal and ... stuff goes stagnant or less). Edited May 5, 2019 by John_Mereness (see edit history) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John_Mereness Posted May 5, 2019 Share Posted May 5, 2019 (edited) As a sidenote, I saw a few memorabilia items he bought from me and the return to his estate was 3X plus the investment - plus he shared that he loved them (which was really nice that he always sent a thank you note and always said when I saw him how much he loved them). Edited May 5, 2019 by John_Mereness (see edit history) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt Harwood Posted May 5, 2019 Share Posted May 5, 2019 Did anyone see what the 1916 Packard Twin Six brought? RM hasn't posted their results yet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alsancle Posted May 5, 2019 Share Posted May 5, 2019 20 minutes ago, Matt Harwood said: Did anyone see what the 1916 Packard Twin Six brought? RM hasn't posted their results yet. 95k hammer. The Dupont was a STEAL at 330 hammer. Condition seems to be critical in the realized prices which makes sense. The Marmon needs a LOT of work and the price indicated that. Also, somebody help me out but was the body original to the chassis? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John_Mereness Posted May 5, 2019 Share Posted May 5, 2019 1 hour ago, alsancle said: The Dupont was a STEAL at 330 hammer. I agree - a STEAL - someone got themselves a fabulous automobile Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt Harwood Posted May 5, 2019 Share Posted May 5, 2019 Dang, that's disheartening on the Twin Six, I just acquired one that I might have as soon as tomorrow. I was hoping for $125-ish. The Marmon was originally a club sedan but the convertible sedan body on it is a correct Marmon body. Not a rebody but a body swap to a more desirable body style. In today's market, that surely hurt value. I also agree that the cylinder heads are a bonus (I believe they were $10,000 each when Edelbrock cast them) but installing them is a job. Did this collection have significant deferred maintenance issues or something? Prices seem very soft on what should be a good group of cars with decent pedigrees. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John_Mereness Posted May 5, 2019 Share Posted May 5, 2019 (edited) 18 minutes ago, Matt Harwood said: Did this collection have significant deferred maintenance issues or something? Prices seem very soft on what should be a good group of cars with decent pedigrees. Here is my impression in generality verses individual cars - Knowing a few of the cars they were incredibly solid cars with older all be it well done restorations, though the the Rolls-Royce cars seem to have more recent restorations and have been more immediately show-able (a bulk of RR cars having been at such as Amelia Island Concours not all that long ago). A good test of the market as they were the cars that people SHOULD REALLY WANT via condition now and condition always - but all too often get overlooked as they need a solid pick-me-up and time spent on them. All said, most are rare enough and so infrequently seen that as soon as you have dependability to get them running on and off a trailer you can do shows/Concours with them basically without even getting the dust out of the corners. Edited May 5, 2019 by John_Mereness (see edit history) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
edinmass Posted May 5, 2019 Share Posted May 5, 2019 I was at the auction, on my way home. Will post when I can. Many cars were not serviced or driven for decades, and had substantial time and dollars to get them going down the road. I think I looked at every pre war car there. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alsancle Posted May 5, 2019 Share Posted May 5, 2019 1 hour ago, John_Mereness said: I agree - a STEAL - someone got themselves a fabulous automobile I was convinced it was going to bring 650k. All in under 400k, even needing work is a HUGE bargain. Words can't describe how much I want this particular car. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
edinmass Posted May 5, 2019 Share Posted May 5, 2019 Sitting at the airport.........thoughts on the sale. It was an interesting and diverse collection of cars. Most haven’t been driven in decades. Overall prices were above average to high allowing for condition. Newer Restorations seemed to have lots of interest, anything needing lots of work was soft, with a few exceptions. As a collector of memorabilia I would say the prices were two to ten times over market. People paying top retail dollar on items as if they were “of the era” when they were 60’s & 70’s repop items. Looks like lots of people were decorating man caves with no budget. Hyman’s party was great, and we also visited four major collections, guessing I looked at 800 old cars in total in three days.......not too bad for the time frame. I don’t think the DuPont did anywhere near what they were hoping for. Probably less than half what they were expecting. Lots of reasons why it failed to measure up, but I admit I thought it would do 600 easy, and maybe much more. Cars that you would not expect to get much action on had multiple bidders. The hobby’s death is being reported prematurely. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1912Staver Posted May 6, 2019 Share Posted May 6, 2019 It's probably just me however Victoria's just never struck me as an appealing body style. Normal roadster or a 5 pas . touring would be my choice. Hard not to like a DuPont however regardless of body. What did the HCS sell for ? Even if Vertical 8's are out of reach for me , an "undesirable " Stutz would sure be nice some day. Greg in Canada Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
edinmass Posted May 6, 2019 Share Posted May 6, 2019 3 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
edinmass Posted May 6, 2019 Share Posted May 6, 2019 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BucketofBolts Posted May 6, 2019 Share Posted May 6, 2019 The 1932 Nash "Advanced" was not even the top of the line. Were there a couple of gold bars affixed to the chassis that went with the vehicle? If it was the Ambassador Model what would have been the price? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John_Mereness Posted May 6, 2019 Share Posted May 6, 2019 (edited) On 5/5/2019 at 8:42 PM, 1912Staver said: What did the HCS sell for ? Even if Vertical 8's are out of reach for me , an "undesirable " Stutz would sure be nice some day. Greg in Canada I want to say 49,800 incl commission - it is a 6 cylinder of which there are a handful (more common by far is a 4 cyl HCS) and a very solid car in condition prior to restoration, as well as being quite a road-car Edited May 7, 2019 by John_Mereness (see edit history) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alsancle Posted May 6, 2019 Share Posted May 6, 2019 John, I know why I'm up at 2:00 AM but since I know you are EST too, what are you doing? 23 HCS Touring hammered at 44,500. 25 Stutz 695 hammered at 65,000. 30 M Lebaron hammered at 130,000 (not a bad price). 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alsancle Posted May 6, 2019 Share Posted May 6, 2019 6 hours ago, 1912Staver said: It's probably just me however Victoria's just never struck me as an appealing body style. Normal roadster or a 5 pas . touring would be my choice. Hard not to like a DuPont however regardless of body. What did the HCS sell for ? Even if Vertical 8's are out of reach for me , an "undesirable " Stutz would sure be nice some day. Greg in Canada Greg, there is nothing nicer than a Waterhouse Victoria! Of course, taste is subjective, but I have never been a touring car fan. Although a 5 passenger Phaeton is not bad, just not so much the 7 passenger touring bodies. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Restorer32 Posted May 6, 2019 Share Posted May 6, 2019 The Ruxton surprised me. Hammered at $675k against a high estimate of $450k. Obviously needing paint and upholstery at a minimum. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
edinmass Posted May 6, 2019 Share Posted May 6, 2019 43 minutes ago, Restorer32 said: The Ruxton surprised me. Hammered at $675k against a high estimate of $450k. Obviously needing paint and upholstery at a minimum. While it did run and drive well, and started easily, it needs EVERYTHING. Too far gone to sort and play with. The number was a result of being the first guy at Pebble with a new restoration on a rare and unusual car. We call it the "new look and new car" box. It's one of the newer aspects of the hobby driving a small section of the market. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1937hd45 Posted May 6, 2019 Share Posted May 6, 2019 What did this Bugatti sell for, looks to be a Type 40. Bob Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Restorer32 Posted May 6, 2019 Share Posted May 6, 2019 I thought the '32 Packard 902 Conv was a decent buy at $62k if you like green. Nice entry level Full classic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
edinmass Posted May 6, 2019 Share Posted May 6, 2019 1 hour ago, Restorer32 said: I thought the '32 Packard 902 Conv was a decent buy at $62k if you like green. Nice entry level Full classic. Yes, nice and a fair price. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
md murray Posted May 6, 2019 Share Posted May 6, 2019 $62,000? Gee you could have bought two of those drab looking cloth Tucker show room banners for that money. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt Harwood Posted May 6, 2019 Share Posted May 6, 2019 9 minutes ago, md murray said: $62,000? Gee you could have bought two of those drab looking cloth Tucker show room banners for that money. Or 600 of these! Not sure how I feel about a clean, straight, not rusty (but mossy) Seville being sold for $112, including buyer's premium. Probably not a bad buy; I bet you could sell the wheels for more than that. I wonder if the bricks jack came with it? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Moskowitz Posted May 6, 2019 Share Posted May 6, 2019 https://rmsothebys.com/media/95340/gc19-results.pdf Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alsancle Posted May 6, 2019 Share Posted May 6, 2019 6 hours ago, 1937hd45 said: What did this Bugatti sell for, looks to be a Type 40. Bob 325 hammer Bob. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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