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Electric cars and Tesla (PLEASE leave politics out of this thread!)


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3 minutes ago, Buick64C said:

As an alternative to figuring out what renewable source is best, you can do what Tesla does and opt for diesel generators. 

 

teslastore-2.jpg

 

Holy moly that is bad.
Let's use one of the most pollution producing fuel sources so we can drive our 'clean' electric vehicle.

 

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13 minutes ago, zepher said:

 

Holy moly that is bad.
Let's use one of the most pollution producing fuel sources so we can drive our 'clean' electric vehicle.

 

 

I expect no less from a “green” company  whose CEO commutes to work in a Gulfstream jet.

 

2565c4b778ce6487f91a359a74e11d2d.jpg

 

1d33qtwxd2b21.jpg

 

harris-ranch-diesel-tesla.jpg

 

 

Edited by Buick64C (see edit history)
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I guess Canada is behind the times. 125 amp service and 15 amp breakers are still standard on normal houses, I don't know about McMansions. There are 3 wires into the house, black red and white. Black is 120, red is 120, white is common. If you combine the black and red you get 240. And of course there is a safety ground as well. I went into this for the benefit of our Australian friends. They seem to have more modern more powerful electrical systems. Not surprising as our standards were laid down at Niagara Falls in 1895. And that brings us back to Tesla who invented the AC power system they used.I am referring to my part of Canada.

Edited by Rusty_OToole (see edit history)
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48 minutes ago, Buick64C said:

 

I expect no less from a “green” company  whose CEO commutes to work in a Gulfstream jet.

 

When were those photos taken? That looks like a temporary setup. Last time I stopped at Harris Ranch was a few years ago and the Tesla charging station there was permanently installed without local generators. So my guess is the pictures were taken when they decided they needed something quick which was then replaced with a "real" charging station. A bit like the portable cell towers with generators that are sometimes rolled out into areas that have been hit by big storms and the grid power has failed.

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2 hours ago, Bhigdog said:

I was commenting on the fact that kongaman's post did not include the cost of TODAY's electricity in his calculation.

That's because it would have been superfluous to do so; the point was already made: even if electricity were free, it would cost more to fuel the Tesla with a personal Powerwall than to buy gas for an IC vehicle.

 

Even without a Powerwall, you're going to have a substantial investment in any kind of remotely usable home charging setup.  In most homes, the only 220 outlets are the clothes dryer and stove (assuming each of those is electric rather than gas).  Those circuits aren't large enough anyway, notwithstanding the annoyance of constantly unplugging them and hanging a big extension cord out the window.  Which means that you're going to pay an electrician to wire up a nice fat (80A?), accessible outlet.  That's a big circuit; it's not unimaginable that the existing service would be overtaxed to add it -- which would be additional expense.

 

All of that aside, folks out here seem to like their Teslas.  There are a lot of charging stations around (e.g. pay stations at the library, free stations at Chase bank, etc.).   And with that, electric cars are adequate for a lot of daily driving.  However, they're inarguably unsuitable for serious driving.  Example: the in-laws live 350 miles away.  That's 5.5 hours and a single tank of gas.  Or maybe 8.5 hours with a mid-trip recharge.  That's not even worth considering.  So, do you buy a second car, rent a car every you take a weekend trip, or just buy one car that you don't need to compensate for?  You know which decision most folks make -- and it's entirely rational to do so.

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My well pump circuit is 220V and 40 amps, which I think gives you 8.8 kw. So if you hooked that up for one hour and drew the max current, you would charge a battery with 8.8 kw-hours of energy.

 

So how many kw-hours of energy charges a Tesla auto?

 

Sometimes they say we have 240V. It used to be 110 and 220, but actually if you measure it I think it is higher now, 120V and 240V about.

 

We have 120V 15 amp and 20 amp circuits. 15 amp is for lights, and 20 amps is for outlets. And you can have 240 V for stoves, clothes driers and well pumps or water heaters.

 

It is common for a panel to be 200 AMP. It should not be difficult to have a 300 AMP panel and add a 240V 60 amp circuit breaker for a car charging port.

 

Neighbors across the street had a car charging port added for their Nissan Leaf.

 

Edited by mike6024 (see edit history)
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You can run 14 ga wire from a 15 amp breaker to a lighting circuit.

 

It is 12 ga wire from a 20 amp breaker to go to an electrical outlet.

 

And in both cases there are limits. Limits to the number of lights, or the number of outlets, per each breaker, obviously.

 

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From what I've been reading, new wind generation including associated storage equipment needed to make the supply "utility grade", is costing less per kWh than new fossil fuel plants

 

 

and the cost of the wind generation equipment is about 500k...........................??????????????????????? NO?

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In California and certain localities in the west, geothermal power has a lot of potential. This means drilling deep into the earth and running water into the pipes, then generating power from the steam that comes out. This heat source is inexhaustible. You can do this anywhere but certain places have a lot of heat at shallow depths. Yellowstone Park comes to mind. California is already getting 10% of their electricity from this source. It is not a new idea, Nicola Tesla proposed it more than 100 years ago.

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6 hours ago, Rusty_OToole said:

I guess Canada is behind the times. 125 amp service and 15 amp breakers are still standard on normal houses, I don't know about McMansions. There are 3 wires into the house, black red and white. Black is 120, red is 120, white is common. If you combine the black and red you get 240.

 Same here is the US. And, no not behind the times, just different and much safer. We go to Amazon or anywhere on line and order electrical appliances, power tools etc, and they are automatically 120 vac, It's the standard in the west. In Europe and Australia they are stuck trying to find 240 volt appliances and power tools, the selection is limited and they are far more expensive, about 2-3 times more. Lots of folks I know in those regions use a step down transformer so they can use the tools at our voltages.

 

The images of those Tesla's connected to diesel generators... Talk about wasteful, energy systems in series and the associated losses, very inefficient. Those pics sum up the whole Tesla story in a nutshell.

 

-Ron

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6 hours ago, mike6024 said:

You can run 14 ga wire from a 15 amp breaker to a lighting circuit.

 

It is 12 ga wire from a 20 amp breaker to go to an electrical outlet.

 

It probably depends on the local code, but most house receptacles are 15 amp. In a garage or laundry room etc, they will be 20 amp. Most all standard lighting circuits are 15 amp.

 

-Ron

Edited by Locomobile (see edit history)
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I don't think there has ever been a solar panel that has covered it's cost in electricity generated. They go bad by degradation or damage beforehand. They estimate that all of these panels being installed will last 25-30 years which is not long after the predicted payback point, but they don't really know how long they will last. They do know they degrade at about 1% per year. The sun is very destructive. Thermal cycling and the different expansion rates of components which compromises the seals is the biggest threat to their longevity, once water makes it's way in, they are done for. 25 years of rain, snow, hail, storms, winds etc.

 

The other big issue with solar, they still don't know how they are going to process all of the toxic waste from these panels when they are discarded in 20-30 years. The process is expensive and time consuming. They can't simply be thrown in a landfill.

 

-Ron

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I worked for RCA in their display devices engineering department better known as picture tubes for 34 years. When first flat screen TVs were shown using plasma or led technology we spent years and tons of money showing people how much better the conventional tv tube was by comparison to performance, brightness and especially cost.  The early flat TVs were $5-10k and out products were $500 on average. In 2006 RCA displays went out of business, the improved flat screens did everything mostly better and price was no longer an issue.  So while we debate the drawbacks and lack of technology to enable non gasoline automobiles to overtake internal combustion engines don’t think that any of this is impossible to fix. There is lots of interest in non gasoline autos around the world and this will translate into lots of people working on ways to improve their drawbacks.  For example, the 350 mile drive problem posted is a no brainer if a Tesla supercharger is factored in to the trip.  Using a home based charger would definitely increased charging time and add more hours to the drive time.  If manufacturers want their electric vehicles to be accepted they too need to address the availability of high speed charging stations as Tesla has for their products. When charging becomes as quick and simple as putting gas in a car, the advantages of gas autos gets reduced in a hurry.

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Terry,

it might be far more feasible for other nations to attempt to clean up their pollution first, before advancing the automobile.

 

most in china and india still dont have cars, as only the rich are able to afford cars. Parking in china is a major issue, due to the population.

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10 minutes ago, mercer09 said:

Terry,

it might be far more feasible for other nations to attempt to clean up their pollution first, before advancing the automobile.

 

most in china and india still dont have cars, as only the rich are able to afford cars. Parking in china is a major issue, due to the population.

Yes, and they are if you follow what is happening.  I did 5 trips to China for RCA and have seen the improvements that are being introduced.  It will be slow, just like it was here.  India is offering free battery upgrades for gas scooters as they are the most polluted transportation in the country due to their numbers.  I would love to have an electric car but my situation as a non driver leaves me out.  

Edited by TerryB (see edit history)
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50 minutes ago, TerryB said:

When charging becomes as quick and simple as putting gas in a car, the advantages of gas autos gets reduced in a hurry.

 

But only if a very generous range between "fillings" is achievable. People now complain about  battery life in their phones and what a pain in the ass it is to have to monitor and worry about if they will have enough juice to get through the day. The P I T A factor increases exponentially when you substitute your car for your phone........Bob

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Range on electric's is getting better all the time. Like I said the first article in the first post said 40 miles at 25mph was good range. Now its 250 miles at 75mph. Thats pretty dang good. How many people really drive 250 miles in a day? My worst commute was about 50 miles each way for two years whitch took more than a hour each way and I could do that twice before needing to recharge in a modern electric car. I had to put $50 of gas in my truck every three days for that drive. If I recharge overnight while the car is parked I might never ever have a problem with low battery charge. I live in Baltimore and can drive to New York or Richmond Virginia in an elecrtic car without running out of juice. Thats really not bad at all. If your a traveling salesman or someone who has to go cross country to visit clinets or something a electric car wont work but for most regular commuters it would not be an issue and maybe a improvement. Just look at all those millions of cars sitting there idleing with just one person inside. Also remember their not done yet improveing them and range will get better and charging times will get smaller so it will be a win win in the near future. I dont think anyone will ever force us to use electric cars but for people who dont care about cars and just need transportation they could make alot of sense. They could also save gas for those of us who like driving old cars. A win win!!!

 

It makes me sad to see all the people who are against new technology just because it isnt what they are used to or they think it will hurt their lives or they just hate the people who are making it. Has a new technology ever really hurt your life? I dont want that newfangle color TV give me good old black and white. I dont need email just sending letters works just fine as far as I'm concerned. I recent had a heart event where they were able to fix it by putting a catherter through my leg up into my heart and my doctor said ten years ago they would have had to crack my ribcage to treat it. Technology is good even if you think it will be bad from you're point of view in the past (we are in the past as far as the future is concerned). Plenty of people were happy with they're horses and hated the car. Plus by the time they are able to eliminate all gas cars and convert to 100% electric all of us old guys here will be dust. The changeover time now can only be good because their will be gas for us old car fans and less competition for it. Think about it.

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So as I see it the practicality angle is on its way to being solved or at least improved. And will probably get better in this regard over the next decade. At least as long as you live somewhere warmish and don't leave your immediate area much.  Or live in a very sparsely populated area.  And assuming you are willing to accept something as complicated electronically as say a Tesla as a daily driver. Disclaimer, I personally like vehicles as simple possible. My ideal vehicle is a series 1 Lotus 7. The simplicity of a Model T Ford in a package that has road manners like nothing else.

  What about the other two questions ?

  a} are electrics ; whole picture considered , better for the planet than IC ?

  b} is a typical electric cheaper in overall cost to own and operate than an IC vehicle ?

 

Greg

 

Ideal vehicle below, not much room for a battery pack.

1958_lotus_s1_seven_15546749758495d565ef6Front-Right.jpg

1958_lotus_s1_seven_15546749595d565ef66e7dffDash-620x413.jpg

1958_lotus_s1_seven_155467496666e7dff9f98764daEngineRightSide.jpg

Edited by 1912Staver (see edit history)
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I like simple too, and electric is as simple as it gets.  My 2013 Dodge wheelchair van with just under 29k miles on it today has bee back to the dealer with engine related problems more than 15 times.  All the knowledge and diagnostics info available still could not fix it in a  timely manner.  The electric motor and battery seem much more simple.

 

To answer my own observation on charging, it seems VW is hotly pursuing the quick charge angle and accessibility to charging with what  is claimed to be the most super of Superchargers and making them readily available.  I never expected to see the rise of all electric vehicles as a viable form of transportation in my lifetime.  It’s enjoyable for me as a tech background guy see how problems are met and solved to make things like computers, cellphones, the internet and electric cars evolve so quickly.  Not that we all need this change at times but it does present quite a show.

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I am not against new technology, in fact I welcome most new tech that has been put into vehicles in the last 15 years or so.

What I am against is government entities forcing me to adopt certain technologies because someone in government has decided what is best for me.

If you let market forces do their thing, without interference from government or corporate market manipulation (most often aided by govt) you will end up with the best solution.

IC vehicles will eventually be replaced with something more efficient.

Are electric cars the definitive future?
Who knows?

But we can't rule out tech like fuel cells, either.

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The changeover time now can only be good because their will be gas for us old car fans and less competition for it. Think about it.

 

 

nothing "new" about electric Billorn- as a matter of fact, it really predates combustion for usage in cities in the 19th century.

 

while you think everyone is against advancement, the bigger question is- is electric at the advancement stage yet?

 

that is what this whole discussion has been about from the very first thread.

 

build a better battery- they will come- still hasnt been done. The car is secondary to the power source...........

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50 minutes ago, 1912Staver said:

So as I see it the practicality angle is on its way to being solved or at least improved. And will probably get better in this regard over the next decade. At least as long as you live somewhere warmish and don't leave your immediate area much.  Or live in a very sparsely populated area.  And assuming you are willing to accept something as complicated electronically as say a Tesla as a daily driver. Disclaimer, I personally like vehicles as simple possible. My ideal vehicle is a series 1 Lotus 7. The simplicity of a Model T Ford in a package that has road manners like nothing else.

  What about the other two questions ?

  a} are electrics ; whole picture considered , better for the planet than IC ?

  b} is a typical electric cheaper in overall cost to own and operate than an IC vehicle ?

 

Greg

 

Ideal vehicle below, not much room for a battery pack.

1958_lotus_s1_seven_15546749758495d565ef6Front-Right.jpg

1958_lotus_s1_seven_15546749595d565ef66e7dffDash-620x413.jpg

1958_lotus_s1_seven_155467496666e7dff9f98764daEngineRightSide.jpg

 

Can you buy a brand new gas car that is as simple as that car in your pictures? If you need any car you own to be as simple as a Model T then you have been out of the new car market for about 80 years. That isnt a fair comparison and complexity isnt a valid reason to choose electric vs. gas. They are both very complex today and will not be getting simpler.

 

And be straight with us. You would not drive that car to work every day where you live even if its simple and reliable. That is not a alternative to something like a Tesla even for you. Simple is great until you have to stay warm or dry or safe in a crash.

 

Simple might be good but I dont think electric is extra complicated. No transmission in an electric car. No fuel injection or valves or spark plugs and all the electronic stuff that control those things. No oil to change or filters to get dirty and I bet not needing oil changes saves money and helps the planet. Electric cars have electronic controls but probably not alot more than any other new car. Just different. People are building their own electric cars in their garages same as gas cars. Trains have been using electric for decades so its not unknown tech. Gas cars still have a bunch of computers driving a lot of parts too you know.

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I don't know; I drove my MGA , admittedly a small step up in complexity  from a 7 as a daily driver for 10 years. Over 200, 000. miles of use. Had a pretty serious crash when a cell phone distracted driver pulled a Lh. turn right in front of me, a 30 MPH or so front impact. Both the MGA and myself survived although the insurance CO. wanted to write off the MG. I worked at a restoration shop at the time and repaired it myself on a fixed price contract. Once again a disclaimer , a disposable Toyota was substituted each year for the 3 worst months of winter around here. More to save my MG from salt as much as anything else. I have owned it for 40 years at this point and would like another 20 at least before I turn it over to its next keeper.

Do any of you think Tesla's will have that sort of appeal?

No top up for all that 10 years, just the flat tonneau for parking. Warm and dry is often overrated.

 You can buy a brand new 7 { Caterham} but yes they are more complicated than the superior original version. Or you can buy a kit that is as simple as the factory Series 1 , but you have to put it together yourself.  Or scratch build it yourself, 2 books with full plan's and builders group's on the web around the world. What other car is still being avidly built 60 years after its introduction ?

I always wanted to move "up" to a factory Lotus 7 from the MGA, however the word got out about their all round excellence and the prices shot up far beyond my reach. I have had to make do with 2 different home built knock off's over the year's. The first one was sold on to one of the local vintage racing guy's years ago, it was built in the early 1960's so vintage legal. The second one I still have, built in the later 1980's {not by me , builder now deceased] as a pure track car.

Can you have this much fun in a Prius e ?

 

Greg

 

Edited by 1912Staver (see edit history)
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I have no issue with new technology, but I do with new products slathered with grandiose claims and numbers manipulated and misrepresented to conceal the products shortcomings.

 

Tesla claims their batteries will outlast the car and after 8? years they still have 80%. How is that possible? Li-po and Li-ion batteries which they are using don't last that long under normal usage.

I just asked Google how long LI-Po batteries last:

"" The typical estimated life of a Lithium-Ion battery is about two to three years or 300 to 500 charge cycles, whichever occurs first. One charge cycle is a period of use from fully charged, to fully discharged, and fully recharged again.""

 

Li-Ion: Which Tesla uses now

 

""

Two to three years
If the voltage of a lithium-ion cell drops below a certain level, it's ruined. Lithium-ion batteries age. They only last two to three years, even if they are sitting on a shelf unused. So do not "avoid using" the battery with the thought that the battery pack will last five years.""

 

With the present battery technology, fast charging is not as straight forward as it sounds, this reminds me of some of the steam ratings on valves we use, i.e. we need 250 psi and 406°F, many valves are rated at 406°F and 70 psi or 72°F and 250 psi. Somewhere in between is the true steam rating. Lipo batteries have a speed limit in which they can be charged and discharged, too quickly for one or the other risks over heating the battery, greatly shortening the overall battery life and worst case scenario, explosion. They can only be fast charged to about 60-70% of their maximum capacity, the remainder has to be slow charged to control the heat.

 

The 350 mile range they talk about is, on a fully, slowly charged battery and the car driven at a constant speed of around 45 mph.

 

-Ron

 

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Actually the only thing I am trying to show is that in the world of alternative vehicles; I see electrics as simply alternative vehicles as no one seems to be able to show they are superior environmentally or cheaper to use, that there is a vast range of options out there.

End of I.C. 's from me. If you don't already know about vintage Lotus products and other "pared down to the essentials" vehicles and all of their charm, you probably won't benefit from this exposure.

Greg

 

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All London Taxis will become electric

 

https://abcnews.go.com/International/londons-iconic-black-cabs-electric/story?id=53907312

 

PHOTO: CEO of London EV Company, Chris Gubbey poses inside the new electric TX eCity taxi connected to a sample electric vehicle charger at the Battersea power station in London, Dec. 5, 2017.

 

Officials hope the number will increase rapidly, with a target of 9,000 electric black cabs by 2020, and that the changes will significantly reduce pollution in London -- reducing taxis' contribution to nitrogen oxide emissions by up to 45 percent.

 

https://bringatrailer.com/listing/2001-london-taxi-int-tx1/   this is where I stumbled across this information, the old ones are being sold off cheap.

 

"At home, using a 7 KW charger, it takes 4 hours to charge it from empty."

 

 

 

Edited by mike6024 (see edit history)
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2 hours ago, billorn said:

If you need any car you own to be as simple as a Model T then you have been out of the new car market for about 80 years.

Let's look at that comparison a different way.  Assume your electric vehicle has a 275 mile range and requires 6 hours to fully charge.  At an average driving speed of 60 mph, it would take about 15 hours to make a 550 mile trip.  550 miles in 15 hours is an average speed of 36 mph.  That's Model T performance.

 

BTW, 80 years ago the model T wasn't a consideration for a new car buyer.  It was long out of production, as was the Model A.  80 years ago, you'd be looking at something like a Buick Century -- which would have you at your destination hours before today's electric vehicle would.

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1 hour ago, 1912Staver said:

Actually the only thing I am trying to show is that in the world of alternative vehicles; I see electrics as simply alternative vehicles as no one seems to be able to show they are superior environmentally or cheaper to use, that there is a vast range of options out there.

 

 

There are comparisons that show the environmental impact of electric is much less than gasoline IC automobiles.  You may or may not choose to believe the information and that’s fine, really, you have a right to that choice.  For me and others here, the thrill is the development of this new technology right before our very eyes.  To me this is like being around when the horse vs auto debate was going on except now I have many ways to get the information, a luxury that did not exist at the start of the 20th century.   The ability to even consider this new form of transportation as viable is incredible as for years the idea was there but the methods to implement the idea had many drawbacks.

 

Its the cars and technology that interest me.  Making ideas and science work in ways that hopefully makes for a better planet.  The IC engine hobby is not doomed by any of this.  A certain car or engine sound will always resonate as pure joy.  Those who find this to be true will keep it going as long as possible.  At some point there will be those who will find the same joy in a non IC vehicle for reasons we might not understand today.

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Like I said before , I try to keep my life simple. I spent 1/2 my career keeping an aging {built 1992, many upgrades along the way} , heavily automated and electronically monitored and controlled ship sailing. After many 3 or 4 in the morning sessions of trying to figure out why the *&%$ thing wouldn't work I have simply had enough of that sort of "advanced technology". Todays treasure is often tomorrows trash , especially where electronics are concerned. As long as someone else is paying for it why not ? {the taxpayer usually} But vehicles are something that comes straight out of my pocket. Different set of priority's.

 

Also this is a "vintage vehicle " forum, how many on here do you think are really fans of the latest "new tech" ? 

 

Greg

Edited by 1912Staver (see edit history)
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7 hours ago, Locomobile said:

In Europe and Australia they are stuck trying to find 240 volt appliances and power tools, the selection is limited and they are far more expensive, about 2-3 times more.

And China and India and a fair number of countries in Africa and Lebanon and Indonesia and Israel and New Zealand and Korea N and S and so on are stuck with finding 220-240 V appliances. I must say, it is very difficult to find such high voltage appliances. NOT. Many items now one just plugs in and it works, after a change of plug, i.e. they are ambidextrous and can do either range.

 

https://www.worldstandards.eu/electricity/plug-voltage-by-country/

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10 minutes ago, KongaMan said:

Let's look at that comparison a different way.  Assume your electric vehicle has a 275 mile range and requires 6 hours to fully charge.  At an average driving speed of 60 mph, it would take about 15 hours to make a 550 mile trip.  550 miles in 15 hours is an average speed of 36 mph.  That's Model T performance.

 

BTW, 80 years ago the model T wasn't a consideration for a new car buyer.  It was long out of production, as was the Model A.  80 years ago, you'd be looking at something like a Buick Century -- which would have you at your destination hours before today's electric vehicle would.

 

Okay, I have a friend who lives in Santa Monica and recently purchased a Jaguar EV with what he says is 270 mile range while driving 70 MPH. He also says the quick chargers give him 120 miles of charge in 20 minutes. Say he wants to drive to Tucson, about 525 miles from his house. I think this is the type of scenario you are describing.

 

A full charge from home gets him to either Blythe or Yuma for lunch. While he eats, his car gets a 120 mile boost charge. So now he needs to make one more 20 minute stop in either Phoenix or Gila Bend depending on the route he picked. Net result, his electric car forced a 20 minute extra "refueling" stop. So instead of averaging 70 MPH driving for the whole time (total 7.5 hours of driving) he only averaged 66 MPH (8 hours).

 

But 99+% of his driving is within 100 miles of his house, so a vehicle with a 270 mile range covers that with no problems.

 

The real question is: Does the vehicle match your needs. Not somebody else's needs but your needs. If you do long distance driving every week, or even every month, then a current generation EV may not be a good fit. If you do a road trip once a year, maybe a better fit is an EV for 99.99% of your driving and renting a gas vehicle for the road trip.

 

With current electrical and gasoline prices in the area I live in, the cost per mile for gas is about twice that of electricity. Given a reasonably similar purchase price, the electric car is probably cheaper to own and operate than a gas car. At least where I live. Maybe not everywhere, but where I live.

 

Many (most) people seem to be buying pickup trucks or SUVs. Apparently the price of a new pickup truck nowdays is close to 50K. Not really all that different than the price of a Tesla Model 3. Which of those two vehicles will get you to and from work, the gym and local stores more economically? My guess is the Tesla. (No, I don't own one nor do I plan on buying one.)

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Not a single charging station in Blythe.

Your friend will have to stop sooner to top off but there seem to be quite a few to choose from.

No idea if they are quick charge or regular charge.

I do not know what type of charging system the Jaguar uses so I did not filter by type.

Filter the results and you get even fewer stations to choose from.

 

http://solvingev.com/charging-stations/zip/92225-blythe-ca

 

Two charging stations in Yuma.

Again, did not filter by type.

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Well, if I'm driving 500 miles, it's doubtful I'm taking an hour for lunch in the middle.  So right there, this Jaguar cost me an hour.

 

Thing is, that hour is only part of it.  Can you imagine owning a car that you must constantly refuel, to the extent that several times a week you have to put your car out of commission for hours at a time?  Where almost every day you have to go through the exercise of plugging in and unplugging?

 

As they say, time is money.  And the EV uses a lot of your time.

 

IMHO, a better way to compare cars is miles per day.   As in, how many miles can you drive in a day at 60mph?   At 25 mpg with a 20 gallon tank and 15 minutes for a fillup, an IC car can go about 1400.  At 275 miles per charge with a 6 hour charge time, an EV can go about 720.

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