Locomobile 4 Cylinder Gathering Place

[alsfarms]

Here are a couple of observations on this Locomobile.  The height of the steering column looks set for the Toy Tonneau body type.  That may hint of it's past life.  The cowling is also close to what a Toy Tonneau would be but not exact.  Other comments later.  I am excited for the new and current owner of this four cylinder Locomobile.  I will repost a factory release photograph of a new 1909 Locomobile Model L Toy Tonneau for comparison.

Al

 

[alsfarms]

[edinmass]

And so his adventure begins………..as they say in the jungles of Peru, drinking  pisco…………”sin surte”?

 

The native game of life and death.

 

 

 

Edited April 23, 2022 by edinmass (see edit history)

[George K]

1 hour ago, alsfarms said:

Five

My observation is that the position/angle suggests a more formal chassis. I have added pictures. Where the pedal to steering column are on this car shows the column all but at the top of the toe board. Whereas the pictures I added show the column essentially between the pedals making that chassis a roadster/ baby tonneau from the factory. The color photo show the more upright column of a formal body chassis. This explains the abrupt angle of the cowl because of the higher column angle on the photo above.IMHO.h

[George K]

31 minutes ago, edinmass said:

And so his adventure begins………..as they say in the jungles of Peru, drinking  pisco…………”sin surte”?

 

The native game of life and death.

 

 

 

In my hay day I sort of remember drinking alcohol and smoking certain herbs  with the same possible outcome.

[alsfarms]

George,

You made a good observation.  One step further....  I still have a warm thought that this steering gear is not as upright as in a Touring car or Limousine.  The brake and clutch pedal may not be accurate or fixed in the correct position and look a bit out of position on the speedster.  My Toy Tonneau is arranged just as the above picture shows with the brake and clutch pedals on plan with the steering column.  The shown speedster has a lower seat and unless one has a very long torso, you would be reaching up to the steering wheel...hence, I still am of the thinking that the column is canted more properly for a Roadster/toy tonneau.  I am just making my thoughts based on pictures and not seeing any measurements.  On a stock Model L and likely other Locomobile offerings, there are two sets of holes in the chassis.  One set will be for roadster types and the second set establishes a different column position. (Both Locmobile body types used the same column).

Al

[George K]

That statement that all chassis share the same steering gear is not true. Both 30 and 40 Locomobiles have different mounting angles cast into the box for low and high angle steering gearboxes.

[alsfarms]

I am always willing to learn and in this case regarding that of steering gears.  Several who have restored the L and I Locomobiles shared the idea that one steering gear assembly could be used for either a higher position, (touring and Limousine versions) or lower position (roadster and toy tonneau versions).  I can't verify that the L and I used the same steering as they probably did not.  I have never had one of each side by side for comparison. I will try to get a picture from my L toy tonneau, at the right side frame rail in the location where the steering gear mounts and you can see clearly that most likely one steering gear could be used in either the up or down position which would fit either body type.  I have scratched my head as I have sometimes thought that the roadster types had a similar but longer steering gear.  I have seen a similar pattern of steering gear mounting holes on the right frame rail of an L type touring car.  This is interesting to learn more on these 110 year old automobiles.  George share more of your learning and experience on this and other L type Locomobiles.

Al

[George K]

Here’s a 1910 catalog picture of a 30 gearbox.

[George K]

48 Locomobiles have set angles in their steering gearboxes. Of course column length is different from upright and roadster.

[edinmass]

Looks like the box has no roller bearings in it, guessing it has white metal bearings?

[George K]

Here’s a parts book page showing different part numbers of each engineered angle.

[ak]

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Edited April 25, 2022 by ak (see edit history)

[alsfarms]

George, Do you have a similar sheet on the L and I? 

AK, yes length of the shifter arms and also how they are positioned is a difference in shifter assemblies between roadster and touring types.  I need to take a closer look and check out the speedster shifter. Good catch....

Al

 

Edited April 23, 2022 by alsfarms (see edit history)

[ak]

.

 

Edited April 25, 2022 by ak (see edit history)

[George K]

16 hours ago, edinmass said:

Al………..me and a few of my Loco friends were sticking our nose in it, since it was close. It’s a cool car…..but definitely a roll of the dice. Cars in useable condition parked for long time…….especially an early speedster, we’re parked for a reason. If it’s not needing any major engine work he did ok. If the motor is worn out, cracked, or has crank/rod/piston/cam issues…….then the deal was much less attractive. Hopefully the new owner got lucky. Time will tell. I have photos, but will respectfully hold them back till the new owner gets to show his new pride and joy.

Just to clarify the “since it was close”. Are you saying it was Local Loco? 

[ak]

.

Edited April 25, 2022 by ak (see edit history)

[ak]

H.H. Franklin had a placard on the wall behind his desk reading: 

IT CAN BE DONE 

[alsfarms]

PMA

Positive Mental Attitude

[edinmass]

We have several shop mottos depending upon the occasion………

 

Drive it like you stole it………

 

Pursue perfection, and hope to achieve excellence!

 

Shut up and work…………

 

If your not bleeding, your not working.

[ak]

.

Edited April 26, 2022 by ak (see edit history)

[alsfarms]

Hopefully the new owner will introduce himself shortly.

[George K]

This is for reference to the 30 steering gearbox issue.

[George K]

Another 30 Locomobile.

[alsfarms]

Nice original picture.  I wish I had a copy of that one to hang on the wall.  George, I took a close look at the area of the front of the rear springs and it is my suggestion that this one most likely is a Model I "40".  That area looks to be covered with a larger square box that is indicative of chain drive.  My "30" of the same basic vintage and body style has a smaller nice looking cast aluminum cover with a small door that allow access to greasing various drive parts at that location.  Tell me your thoughts.....

Al

[George K]

40 Locomobiles don’t have flat top radiators.

[George K]

28 minutes ago, alsfarms said:

Nice original picture.  I wish I had a copy of that one to hang on the wall.  George, I took a close look at the area of the front of the rear springs and it is my suggestion that this one most likely is a Model I "40".  That area looks to be covered with a larger square box that is indicative of chain drive.  My "30" of the same basic vintage and body style has a smaller nice looking cast aluminum cover with a small door that allow access to greasing various drive parts at that location.  Tell me your thoughts.....

Al

The photo is for sale on eBay.

[alsfarms]

I missed that.  You are absolutely right!  Good catch.  I will look for that photo on eBay.  Does the eBay auction relate to a year or did you notice?

Al

[ak]

Looks to me like an early I, no box, open gear drive.

Edited April 27, 2022 by ak (see edit history)

[George K]

2 hours ago, ak said:

Looks to me like an early I, no box, open gear drive.

No 40 had a flat top radiator.

[alsfarms]

Hello George, I agree with you.  I have seen no pictures, literature or real life Model I Locomobiles with a flat top radiator.  Now I have another Model L question for you, that involves the picture you posted. (by the way I have searched through 8000 pictures on eBay and either missed or could not find that picture with the idea of purchasing?). Now for the question.  I have the understanding that 1909 and 1910 Locomobile Model L types did not have skirts on the rear fenders.  Most of the pictures I have see as well as original literature support that thought.  Second, 1909 and 1910 models had no front doors on the Toy Tonneau body types.  The picture does show a Toy Tonneau, Model L with no front doors making it a 1909 or 1910.  The rear fenders confuse me as they appear to be skirted like the 1911, 1912 and 1913 Locomobiles.  Do you have a parts book that may straighten out what I thought was fact but may not be?

Al

[AHa]

Al, are you calling the body filler panel a skirt? To my knowledge, the skirt is the part that bridges across the fender, front to back, that is usually perpendicular and at a right angle to the fender top. In the picture of the car above, what I would call the skirt is not visible. There is however a body filler part that goes from the fender over to the main body. Educate me if you can.

 

I wonder if you are unaware of the typical bleed over of parts in these early years. It is not unusual to find 1912 fenders on a late 1911 car and sometimes car companies like Locomobile made running changes throughout production. Parts books sometimes note these changes by serial number of car. Of course, I can't speak of Locomobile specifically.

[ak]

Alan is referring to the one inch or so "skirt" that runs completely around the outside perimeter of the fender on the exposed edges.  A "band" if you will.  Honestly it is a cheap looking fender without the band, and I have not seen any other cars without a band.  I don't understand what Locomobile was trying to accomplish with this cheap, unstable design for a rear fender. The front fender has a substantial "skirt" or "band" running around the perimeter, and it does provide substantial stability and strength to the fender. 

JR 

[alsfarms]

John....

Amen to that!!!!!

Al

(I will post a couple of pictures)

[alsfarms]

To affirm what John stated above.  Here are two pictures.  The first is of a 1909 Locomobile Model L Toy Tonneau. The second, I assume, is of a late 1910 as it has no front doors but does show the skirted rear fenders. If the skirted rear fenders, was in fact, available for the 1909 Locomobile Model year, I would put the skirted design on my Locomobile!  If not I will stay with the skirtless design.

Al

Picture one 1909

 

[alsfarms]

Picture two

Skirted design likely later 1910

 

 

See the difference.  It would be good information to know when that change took place from one design to the other.

Al

[ak]

Alan, I hadn't seen until now any 1910 with skirted rear fenders!

They also show the 1911 "kick up" at the back.  Unlike the 1909.

Upon further examination it has 1911 Solar headlights and side lights, and fully demountable rims, and no carbide generator.

I suspect it is a later model perhaps sold along with the 1911 models.  

This is not science.  They were trying to sell cars and appeal to customers. 

They certainly were not going to throw away bodies left over from the day before the factory changed things around. 

Great picture  

JR

P.S. check the pressure in those tires 

[ak]

....and electric horn. 

[alsfarms]

Once again John.  Your thoughts are good.  I keep slipping into a modern thought process and trying to make 1909 and 1910 Locomobile fit into that modern scenario.  It simply does not work that way.  Honestly, there likely was a basic design that Locomobile tried to follow, but these early Locomobiles we're high end even then and a prospective owner probably had plenty of input on his new investment. On the second picture, I do note Solar headlamps, more likely found on 1911-12-13, (I have a pair of these with script and the are beautiful heavy lamps).  The side lamps also appear to be 933 Solar lamps found on both pictures.  These were available on the 1909 Locomobiles in Script form.  This is the type I have for my 1909.  I am also using the same Rushmore headlamps as found on the first picture along with the correct square Rushmore carbide generator.  I wonder if a parts book would have numbers that show when the skirted rear fenders were available.  John or George, any more exact information from a parts book?

Al

[ak]

Alan, that is interesting.  I know you could have purchased any lamp you wanted for any car, but I have to say that I cannot recall ever seeing a period photo of a 1909 or 1910 with anything but Gray and Davis, 834's and 934's for 1909 and 934's for 1910.   Share with me some photographs of 1909 and 1910 Model 30's with Solar lamps. 

John