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Locomobile 4 Cylinder Gathering Place

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I wouldn't expect them to keep up with their larger chain driven cousins, I think the more relevant comparison would be with cars such as the later 4 cyl Cadillacs which were about the same size, but perhaps a bit lighter than the Loco.

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A friend has shared another early 4 cylinder Locomobile picture with me.  I don't think this car is a Model "I", more likely an "H" or maybe an "E".  Does anyone else here have a guess or suggestion as to the true identity of this early chain drive Locomobile?

Al

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I love this picture. What a car! Those headlites are huge. If you could enlarge the picture you might be able to read the name of the garage, which is partly out of sight on the top of the hood.

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Do you think the hood say's "South Park Garage. 941 Genesee St"?  Maybe someone will recognize that address? I have seen a Geneese street in Akron/Canton area of Ohio?

Al

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This was Don Boulton's 1912 model M, engine number 5113, another great car.

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A front view of the same car. Notice the small dip in the front axle in comparison to the deep dip seen on other cars. The axles were dipped to protect the engine and engine pan, which hung low under the car.

 

 

 

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I love this truck too, It appears to be an original coupe body with whatever came after removed to accommodate the wrecker but it looks factory with the wrecker components fitting up perfectly to the "cab." Wonderful, just wonderful.

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I have never seen this Locomobile before.  I actually think this car was originally a limousine.  Do you have any additional information on this wrecker conversion?

Al

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89tc posted this in the pictures forum of this site back in 2015 concerning the tow car above,

 

I saw this car in the "Period Photo Thread" and was curious as to where the photo was taken, so I did a little research. It was taken in front of the "Soldiers and Sailors" monument, Washington Square, Rochester New York, some time after 1912. The picture below is of the same location today. The South Park Garage, 941 Genesee Street, was in business in 1912 as an auto repair shop with a detached garage. In 1938-1941 is became a gas station, and then as a dry cleaners from 1947-2003. The buildings were knocked down in 2009, and as of today is an empty lot with chemical contamination (brownfield), slated to be cleaned up and the property re-used for a new purpose....

 

Its interesting to put a little history with the car. The picture I posted here is cropped. The original shows the monument in the background.

 

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The wrecker is in the towing and recovery museum in Chattanooga Tennessee. You are probably right, limousine is most reasonable but it looks like some coupes I've seen. Its a 1913.

Edited by AHa (see edit history)
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thanks for the information on the earlier Locomobile chain drive.  Very interesting indeed and also on the Wrecker.

Al

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I apologize for hijacking your thread, I realize these are not four cylinder cars.

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OK, now I'm back on track. This is a 1909 model 30 but curiously the motor number is 5113, the same engine number as the 1912 model M above. Weird coincidence but nice car.

Edited by AHa (see edit history)
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Al, This darker speedster must have a later engine as 1909 engine numbers spread should be in the 2,000 range.  I like this car also.  To me, this car it is patterned more after the Stutz Bearcat.  This car also has the gentle dip front axle that also looks the part.  I would like to get a chance to drive this one, but I think it left the country.   Your pictures, postings and history are nice!

Al

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This is another 1909 model 30 in the Stahls collection. No engine number provided but it makes me wonder how many Locomobiles survived compared to production records. I've read on the web that one reason Locomobiles survived was because they never wore out. They were rebodied with later custom bodies and used as trucks and taxis and upgraded. They were highly prized by certain businesses, thus even when they were totally outdated, they were saved. Also, in later years Locos were highly prized cars and the value shot up so lots of them have crossed the auction block and pictures are available on the web. I like em.

 

This one has the traditionally correct front axle.

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Edited by AHa (see edit history)

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I would venture a guess that many more Locos exist today as speedsters in various forms because of the reasons I cited above. Very few remained in their original configuration. Also, building a speedster is much less expensive on an original chassis than rebuilding an original style body and these cars configured as speedsters are binging in big bucks.

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Al,

The tow car above is most likely a six cylinder model, correct? There appears to be an oiler on the dash. Can you speak to its use? I would expect this car made it through the years and is somewhere today. I wish we could trace its wherabouts.

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Hello Al,  The modified Locomobile represented as a 1907 will be a 4 cylinder.  Locomobile did not make 6 cylinder cars until they came out with the "M" model in 1911.

Al

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The tow car above looks really long, do you happen to know what the wheelbase would be? Also, the black car directly above has a round medalion in the center of the top tank of the radiator but most Locos don't have this medallion. Can you address this question?

Edited by AHa (see edit history)

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Hello Al,  If you are referring to the stripped down chain drive Locomobile from New York, in the original picture, that car will be a Model H, 4 cylinder,. 35 HP and 120" wheelbase, right hand drive .  The Model I, is 40 HP,  4 cylinder, chain drive, 124" wheelbase, right hand drive.  The Model L is 120" wheelbase, 32 HP, 4 cylinder, right hand drive and shaft driven, (first year for shaft drive was 1909).  All of these factory HP listings are just very conservative ratings, I understand due to taxation issues.

Al

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This is Joe Florida (?) in a 1908 Model I Locomobile, one of the two raced in the 1908 Fairmont race. Locomobile was called the best built American car and though I can't say yea or nay, they were well made. Notice how high in the seat the passenger sets with nothing but the driver to hold onto. I don't own a Loco so all I can do is admire and observe. I think it is interesting to note the frame is completely flat and straight. It has scrubber shocks on the front as most race cars do. The seat sets up higher than I would expect but many of the first race cars did so.

 

This is a 1908 car but look how worn the finish is on the hood. The picture was obviously taken some years after the cars production. The construction of the body (if you can call it that) is crude and unfinished. The car was built for one purpose. There is, however, shiny paint on the front left wheel. It looks to be new, which makes me think this wheel broke and what is on the car now is a replacement. The angle of the back wheel is such that it is harder to tell but it certainly does not appear to have the same shine or uniformity of color.

 

Notice the size of the gas tank pump at the feet of the passenger. It is small, comparative to pumps on other cars.

 

OK, I've done more research. It is reported that Locomobile went racing in 1904 for the 1905 Vanderbuilt cup. They finished third in that race and proceeded to build two 16 litre four cylinder cars, numbered #16 and #1 but the #1 car is otherwise stated to have a much larger motor. It is also stated that in the 1906 Vanderbuilt race, the cars performed well but the tires did not. The cars ran non-demountable type rims, as you see on the car above. These are clincher style rims and are notoriously hard to change tires on. For the 1908 race, the wheels were changed to detachable, demountable type. This type wheel has a demountable rim. Instead of changing tires, 5 or 6 bolts car be removed and the rim and tire come off together.

 

In the 1908 race the number 16 car beat the #1 car and became famous. The number 1 car came in second and plowed into the crowd that gathered on the track, running into a car that had been pulled onto the track, and crashed. This is the last we hear of the #1 car. Now, my supposition was the car above is #1. I have since changed my mind. It has a striking resemblance to #1 (see my posting of pictures later in this thread). This picture shows a race car with non-demountable wheels.

 

Correction. I have learned the two 1908 Fairmont cars are model 40 cars. I have found a picture of a model 40 motor and it has four exhaust ports that match up to the four exhaust ports exiting the hood of this car. That means this is not old 16's sister car. One question answered. The thing that confused me about this car was the four exhaust pipes. Old 16 and presumably the sister car had two exhaust ports.

Edited by AHa (see edit history)
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This may be the same car in its modern day configuration. It is advertised as Chassis #9 and a model I. There are similarities in its construction but the seat is lowered as well as the gas tank but the body rests on the same flat frame. It has the same extension for the controls from the dash location. This is the problem I have with restoring historically significant cars. The restoration washes away too much history.

 

If this car is compared to old 16 with its rich patina of originality, this car could easily be a recreation of an original. There are times when cars should be restored and must be restored but I much prefer an unrestored car for its authenticity to one that is restored. You may have a different opinion.

 

If I had to guess I would say the gas tank on this car is a 30 gallon drum; notice the location of the filler neck. In the original picture the tank is as wide as the frame and the end of the tank rounds out significantly while the tank above fits inside the frame rails and the end that is visible looks to be flat. These are just my observations and are not meant to be criticisms of the car. A Loco is a Loco regardless of what else it is!

Edited by AHa (see edit history)
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The Joe Florida Locomobile, at the earliest, is a 1908 Locomobile, the first year of the Model I.  The sister car to the Old 16 Locomobile is truly a race car with similarities to passenger cars but with a special built HUGE CID engine and built in 1906.  The remains of the Number 16 racer sister car are reported to still exist.  Go to the main Locomobile chat threads and go to the bottom to read about a Model L Toy Tonneau and the Old 16 and the sister car remains.  I do not think the Joe Florida car had any modification from stock to lower the steering wheel or the seat.   That car was likely based on a Toy Tonneau type, as the steering gear is already lower than a touring car.  The newer Model I Locomobile  gray race car has had the steering column set back and lowered  and probably the pedals pushed back also.  Maybe someone here will comment.  This newer race car is similar to the Old 16 but this one is surely more correct a 1908-9-10 Locomobile Model I.  Anyone knowing the Model I race car shown above,. please comment.  You Tube has several clips of this car running....what fun.

Al

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The Locomobile Model L shown above as (Currently not on Display) I think originated on the west coast.  I am sure this car has a shortened chassis from the stock 120" wheelbase.  Can anyone here provide more information on this car?  I would like to see a good front shot and also a good rear shot.  Yes, it would be good to see a couple of pictures of the engine.  Anyone with information please help us out.

Al

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