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tblack

1917 Buick D -45 Spark plug options

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I think I have seen that Autolite 3077 plugs are a good option for this Buick....they are discontinued....but a cross reference indicates a champion w18D  589 is a substitute....I'm presently running Autolite 3076 and the jury is out on these....Anyone want to weigh in on their experiences.  The Champion W18D is a long reach.   Fouling potential a plus or minus with these?

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My 17 D45 has Champion W18 plugs.  When I first got the car, the plugs were always black.  After going through the distributor and choke ( adjustment had slipped and would not go full open), the engine runs well with a lice tan color on the plugs.  It does like a good bit of advance.

 

Bob Engle

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Thanks for the reply ...I too will go champion but I'm trying the W89D long reach...this is a hotter plug than the Autolight 3076...and compares well to the Autolight 3077 discontinued.   From what I can see W18 matches up closely with the Autolite 3076, which runs pretty sooty on my car.  Trial and error on these cars and error seems to win the day!!

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Update I installed the champion plugs w89d today...took a 10 mile drive and rechecked the plugs.  the long reach hotter plug did not foul up....the Autolite 3076 showed considerable fouling in only 10 miles and misfiring in 50.  Seem to be on the right track. I'll report back at 50 miles.

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I’ve been running the 3076’s for years in my 1923 as the hottest plug I could find. 

 

With a bit of online research I find Champion has changed the W89D to 589.  Same plug. Champion has changed to all number designations. No alphas in the codes now. 

 

Advance Auto parts has the 589 for $8.49 each. Free online delivery and a promo code of E91 saves you another $10.19. 

 

All 6 delivered free for $43.20 or $7.20 a plug.  Will report back. 

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Been at this 25 years and never heard this W89D / 589 Champion ever mentioned before. 

 

God Bless the early tractor and hit-n-miss engine boys for keeping us in business 

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And if I may add, W18s were the worst of all.  

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Brian....yes I saw the new Champion 589, but bought 7 nos w89d plugs on ebay.....I too ran the autolites 3076 in my 23 and my 21 for years with no complaints.   They sure sooted up quickly in the 17.  The original autolite 3077, I guess had a longer reach and ran hotter.  I think the w18 plug is used by Model A people.  Did you finish the rework of your valve cages???

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Brian and Tom:

 I bought a set of the W89D/589s to try. They were at a model expo and do have the longer reach as spec. for the Buick engine. Of course they cannot be used with my 1925 (if one wants to keep the spark plug cover in place) as they also project out a good bit. I am still using the 3076s. But I have a NOS set of Champion #6s which I may try.

2113394321_1927Champion(2).jpg.b6562e9a3cfde8fc6f68a6fc829ac371.jpg  I actually have 3 variations of the #6.  Short, long and 2 piece.

I also think have a set of Champion commercial plugs that are specified as a hotter plug.

1137279154_1922Spark.thumb.jpg.54e750138b2442bb73379c2bfccda8da.jpg

686196812_1923AC1.thumb.jpg.4986d66b4b3a5b309fb94f86904f00c0.jpg

1978989594_1923AC1-Copy.jpg.db9eb86ede75a50485987e0e45c18e63.jpg

The 1 1/8" hex 78LT or 78LCP (Carbon Proof) is what was specified for the earlier cage valve Buick 6s.

 When they changed to the detachable head in 1924 the AC specs. changed to a 7/8" hex but had the same reach.

 I could not figure out why I could never find a proper vintage spark plug wrench for my Buick tool kit in 15/16". (Autolite 3076) Aahh... the original socket for my vintage spark plug was 7/8".

1904433203_1925Spark(2).jpg.81f644d3281312eb3d2147d7b176f3a2.jpg I believe this plug eventually became the 77L.

  

1366162122_1925Champion.thumb.jpg.bc2fa10ae995caf6e8a958dfd638b47f.jpg

1927AC.thumb.jpg.fb2a935ea14cca096a67405eefbb68aa.jpg  1927 Ad.

 

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Agree on all points Tom. 

 

Yes, finished up the cage project in 2017 and drove to the BCA National Meet outside Milwaukee and the PWD After Tour and then around Lake Michigan/U.P./Bridge and home. 

 

Happy to report 1485 trouble free mile trip.  Never had to lift the hood except to check the oil.  

 

Just sent Mark Kikta some spare stock valves and felt stem lube washers for his current build yesterday. 

 

I ended up going with oversized stem Diesel engine valves cut down and keeper slots added and reamed out the worn cages to match.  Good exhaust cages were just too hard to find with unworn stem bores.   Cheaper to oversize the cages than to sleeve them even with the modified diesel valve cost rolled in. Very happy. 

 

Then added felt washers from McMaster Carr to the stems for lube purposes.  I keep them saturated. 

 

Found new springs too.  Got lucky there.  

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Posted (edited)

Larry

 

I saw a nice set of those at Hershey when we were out there last Fall.  When I asked the price, I very gently set the one I was handling back down.  Yikes. 

 

And you make a good reminder for the new guys. The newer modern plugs are long on the porcelain ends and often short out to the spark plug cover.  This was a major factor in my car when I bought it from the previous owner who could not get it to run well.  That, and timing about 40 degrees retarded off. 

 

6 right angle spark plug boots fixed a major issue. 

Edited by Brian_Heil (see edit history)

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Brian:

 Yes I know what you mean. I lucked out and found all the #6s at an antique shop all in original boxes I think I paid $40.00 for 10 of them.

 I see similar off brand plugs on Ebay @ a buy it now price of $99.00 for 2 or 4!

 

DSCF4798.thumb.JPG.51df52aba283072c6dad27916fac0b61.JPG These were 2 piece # 6s.DSCF4803.thumb.JPG.34abe8efbe46caa2a1ff877db9ae2ec5.JPG

 DSCF4800.thumb.JPG.c046eaf11643e2bf114e7a771ad92d65.JPG

   Comparison of the #6  and the 78LT Titan that the cage valve engines used

  and the 3076 which is still the tallest of the group but shortest in reach.

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I'm up to 75 miles on the W89d's and it is running just fine....they (yours) look the same as mine.   I'll take a picture of the W89D in 20 miles or so and compare it to the Autolite 3076

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I pulled a plug on Cylinder#3.  Cylinder # 3 had fouled the original new autolite 3076 to the point of not firing in 40 miles. I put in a new Autolite 3076 in and what is pictured is it with 10 miles on it...still firing but fouling up fast.  I removed the champion W89D plug from the same cylinder with 35 miles on it.  While not perfect but it's hot tip is staying a nice tan color.  My guess is that I am burning some oil but not enough to see it in the exhaust.

 

1051714690_Spark2.thumb.JPG.265ee4fd53f6f0e57c9d79cc0cc936dc.JPG1051714690_Spark2.thumb.JPG.265ee4fd53f6f0e57c9d79cc0cc936dc.JPG540442367_Spark1.thumb.JPG.caf9e0db47f9de898f6c68033c5c21fb.JPG540442367_Spark1.thumb.JPG.caf9e0db47f9de898f6c68033c5c21fb.JPG540442367_Spark1.thumb.JPG.caf9e0db47f9de898f6c68033c5c21fb.JPG540442367_Spark1.thumb.JPG.caf9e0db47f9de898f6c68033c5c21fb.JPG540442367_Spark1.thumb.JPG.caf9e0db47f9de898f6c68033c5c21fb.JPG1051714690_Spark2.thumb.JPG.265ee4fd53f6f0e57c9d79cc0cc936dc.JPG1051714690_Spark2.thumb.JPG.265ee4fd53f6f0e57c9d79cc0cc936dc.JPG

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Posted (edited)

Installed my W89Ds today. Gapped to 0.035 per the Dave Chambers article quoted here often.  Still shaking my head as to where these plugs have been for the last 23 years. Ha. I had two sets of 3076s I would swap out every 500 miles or so.  Clean the set and be ready again in 500.  Just like an Indy pit crew. My car has been ~150 miles to the quart since I got it.  Stock pistons.  I’m not a fan of Champions, running AC or Autolites in my other cars from the 50s and 60s. But I like the length of these electrodes for temp and staying un-fouled. 

 

10 mile loop to get gas.  Idles like a rock and runs well.  Like new plugs should.  

 

The test will will be this weekend and the 210 mile round trip to the Gilmore Museum in Hickory Corners, Michigan for the Pre War Gathering.  Great event.  There is a 100 mile tour on Friday but I’ll get my fix Saturday running over there and back.  Larry Schramm is trailering over for Friday’s event with his newly rebuilt truck engine.  

 

Had to re-lash a couple 3 valves.  A leftover from last season and my valve job of 2017.  No more clatter.  All 12 set to a snug 0.008 hot.  Sounds like a Buick should.  Terry Wiegand Will now relax. Ha. 

 

Cleaned the cap cap and rotor.  A dab of dielectric grease.  Good to go.  

 

Fan, throw out bearing and distributor greased.  

 

Trans and rear end checked and topped off. Steering box too. 

 

Changed the oil before I put it away. 20w50 WolfsHead.  Been running it for 20+ years.  Cheapest API rated oil my neighbors auto store carries.  I buy it by the case.  He delivers it to my back stoop. 

 

Chassis lube will be next or maybe when I get back. 

 

Buick is so dirty it looks like a barn find.  Needs a good wash and wax Friday. 

 

Fingers crossed for Saturday’s weather.  Last year I was all set to go but took a pass and did not drive all day in the rain. 

 

I will I’ll post the Gilmore link in a sec. 

Edited by Brian_Heil (see edit history)
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Well, at least it’s clean now.  Too nice an evening not to take advantage of it. 

 

Tom, I’m too embarrassed to post the condition of the 3076s I removed.  All oil soaked and caked with carbon.  The only time I could get them slightly gray and dry is on a long tour.  Around town running errands they just load up. 

85EB345B-8758-45C7-A2EF-F88441BD549F.jpeg

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Posted (edited)

Made it. Round trip of 217 miles.  

 

I can tell the W89D plugs ran better.  Consistent idle and pulled the grades stronger.  All around better combustion.  Pulled in the driveway this evening with it idling just as smooth as when I left. 

 

We had steady rain from 5:30 to 7:30 this morning at home then it let up to drizzle then just spitting.  Hit the road at 8:45 spitting and all.  Why did I wash it and wax it last night?  Arrived @ Gilmore filthy thanks to wet roads and road construction.  But the sun was out by then and Larry Schramm saved me a spot.  Nice to see lots of old friends. 

 

If you have a chance, put this annual event on your to-do list and get yourself a set of W89Ds. 

9ABA5D98-E8EF-44E7-AF11-947CC9D67FEC.jpeg

Edited by Brian_Heil (see edit history)
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Posted (edited)

One spectator joked and asked me if I passed anyone on the where there?

 

I said sure, why I passed a $500,000 job like he was standing still.  

171B8532-7D63-454E-B766-6AEA6FCCC321.jpeg

Edited by Brian_Heil (see edit history)
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Yep. I had a nice visit with him as well. 

 

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Good to see a lot of Buick friends.  They included Don Obermeyer and his 1908 F and Gary Van Dyken & wife Beverly from Ontario among others.  Joyce and I along with Gary & Beverly went on the about 85 mile tour in the Battle Creek/ Kalamazoo area.  Nice time with good roads most of the day. It did start to drizzle some for about the last hour of the tour.

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Brian,

Glad to hear the plugs worked well.  That is the only plugs/style that I have been using since I got the truck running years ago.  A recommendation of Mark Shaw.  Only difference I was able to get some Autolite 3077 plugs before they discontinued them a few years back.

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