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Got to work on a CarterCar today....


keiser31
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Helped out my 80+ year old friend today. He needed to remove a flat tire from one of his all original CarterCars so he could have a guy fix it....easy, peasy. He was afraid he would have to remove the whole wheel with hub and all. I educated him.

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Edited by keiser31 (see edit history)
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3 hours ago, Rusty_OToole said:

They were known for their unique friction drive transmission. Easy to drive and infinitely variable speed.

The "transmission"....

post-37352-143138142154.jpg

post-37352-143138185753.jpg

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5 minutes ago, Dave Fields said:

Back when Jimmy Carter ran against Gerald Ford on of the AACA regions had a race between a Carter and a Ford. A picture was published in The Antique Automobile the AACA magazine.

Who won?

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William Durant said he bought the Cartercar company because of their friction drive, not knowing that the Ford Model T was going to put all other low priced cars out of business. He also bought the Haney Lamp Company for a big price because they held patents on acetylene headlights, right before the electric light put them out of business. It was decisions like that, that led to him losing control of General Motors to the bankers.

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I wonder how many cars used the friction-drive system. Cartercar started in 1905, but John W. Lambert patented the system Carter used in 1904. A few dozen makers followed, including Waltham, Metz, Sears, Lambert, etc. It would be interesting to search the "Standard Catalog" to see. 

 

Phil

 

 

 

 

Lambert_friction-gearing_transmission_patent_761384.png

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The friction drive patents are interesting.   In another example of how government works, the Patent Office issued a friction drive transmission patent to both Carter and Lambert on the same day in 1904: 

https://patents.google.com/patent/US761384A/en

https://patents.google.com/patent/US761146A/en

Not surprisingly, lawsuits and counter suits ensued between Cartercar and Lambert.   The Lambert patent primarily focused on the friction disc and wheel surfaces, in particular the use of aluminum on the friction disc, while the Carter patent focused more on the complete drive setup.   My suspicion is that Lambert got the best of the aluminum argument because Cartercar switched to another alloy even though they made claims of using aluminum first.   You can see the alloy disc in a picture above. 

 

I have found about 45 makes that used a friction drive transmission but I'm sure there are more to be found...

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31 minutes ago, 8E45E said:

Very similar to the Orient Buckboard.

1906_Orient_Buckboard-1.jpg

 

Interesting photo, 8E45E...  I think that may be my Orient Buckboard. 

 

Not that I mind, but I'm curious where you might have come across this pic? If it's my car I don't believe that's one of my photos.  

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10 minutes ago, mercer09 said:

Nice Cartercar listed on ebay at the moment- not mine.

That color on these cars was popular, I guess....https://www.ebay.com/itm/1912-Cartercar-Model-R-Roadster/233210892602?hash=item364c73d13a:g:4PEAAOSw4BBcxOpH

1912 CarterCar.jpg

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Very interesting. One of the greatest things about antique cars is finding the outside the box thinking that they actually used.  Great to see the friction drive used outside of Sapper Comet riding mowers and people thought CVT was "new" technology.

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  • 2 years later...

Hi

  I am helping a widow with her 1907 Cartercar.  This car is a 2 cylinder with a box oiler injection fed on top of the engine.  Wondering if this should have motor oil or 600 W steam oil??   Any help or contacts would be appreciated.  

 

Thank you,    Hugh

2119066480_1907Cartercar2cylinder.jpg.9472bf1e6530bcd756744f8aaad99df8.jpg1027068308_IMG_42811907Cartercar.jpg.61d995e3c25c88d65d111e5f035acd77.jpg

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On 4/23/2019 at 10:12 PM, J&J said:

The friction drive patents are interesting.   In another example of how government works, the Patent Office issued a friction drive transmission patent to both Carter and Lambert on the same day in 1904: 

https://patents.google.com/patent/US761384A/en

https://patents.google.com/patent/US761146A/en

Not surprisingly, lawsuits and counter suits ensued between Cartercar and Lambert.   The Lambert patent primarily focused on the friction disc and wheel surfaces, in particular the use of aluminum on the friction disc, while the Carter patent focused more on the complete drive setup.   My suspicion is that Lambert got the best of the aluminum argument because Cartercar switched to another alloy even though they made claims of using aluminum first.   You can see the alloy disc in a picture above. 

 

I have found about 45 makes that used a friction drive transmission but I'm sure there are more to be found...

not an inherent conflict of patents.  Cartercar could have a patent on the system and Lambert on the improvement of an aluminum disc.  The way it was explained to me, one person can have a patent on a 4 legged device to sit on called chair, while another could have a patent on a comfort improvement called back, another on an improvement called arms.  the latter two are subsidiary to the primary patent.

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Hi Hugh, I replied to the email you sent to cartercar.org also.    It looks like the oil in the reservoir is low and should be added before it is used, so it is good that you noticed it.   Here is an excerpt from the Model K Cartercar manual which also had the same motor.   It says "low in weight" and "high in viscosity"...

 

model_k_lube.jpg

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On 5/2/2021 at 6:45 AM, J&J said:

Hi Hugh, I replied to the email you sent to cartercar.org also.    It looks like the oil in the reservoir is low and should be added before it is used, so it is good that you noticed it.   Here is an excerpt from the Model K Cartercar manual which also had the same motor.   It says "low in weight" and "high in viscosity"...

 

 

It wouldn't hurt to drain what is left of it first, via that square-head drain plug at the base of the reservoir, and then refill with fresh oil.  

 

Similar self-contained lubricators are still used on plunger pumps where the fluid doesn't have any lubricating properties.

 

Craig

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Thank you for the responses.   The main reason for the question is I am also working on a 1904 Autocar and cast into the Autocar oil reservoir is "600W steam oil".  I appreciate the operating instruction and notes as the Cartercar is different and it uses motor oil.  So the car show went well and the Cartercar won first in it's class.  Starting the car drew a large crowd and applause when it started. 

 

Hugh       

 

 

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