Ancestry and antique cars, part 2

[bluenose25]

In an earlier post entitled "Ancestry and antique cars" I sought and got a good deal of help identifying a car owned by my maternal grandfather.

 

It came up in that post that my grandfather must have owned a newer car in 1939 (that would have had a radio for the story recounted). This is a picture of a newer car of his. Is it new enough to have had a radio?

 

 

The car is parked just ahead of where the car in the earlier post was parked, same house, same porch. Cape Breton, Canada.

 

This is a closer look at just the car.

 

 

It's too bad that the photo is faded or was underexposed on the right side or we could see more car.

 

To start off, I would like to note that Keiser31 provided a possible I.D. for this car in the earlier post.  "Maybe a 1929 Chevrolet. The taillight is mounted in a different place on this one, but I think it is usually mounted on the spare tire rack. Maybe with the accessory trunk, they decided to move the mounting. The car in your photo looks like a four door sedan."

 

And keiser31 provided a picture...

 

 

Following keiser31's lead, I looked for and found information on a 1929 Chevrolet four door sedan. It does not have the trunk and can therefore have the taillight in the center. The bumpers can also be more tucked in.

 

 

If anyone would like to add anything to this post, I would appreciate it.

 

These two photos show spoked and disc wheels were available for this car. Anyone want to express an opinion as to which type my grandfather's car had? (Not sure if I see spokes or linear reflections.)

 

Would a car built in 1929 last until Canada entered the war (in 1939) in an Atlantic coastal village?

 

I thought I would add this cropped pic from my Mom's photo collection (which is where the car pics have come from), which is likely the same car. Does anyone see anything in this photo that could confirm or deny a match? Now that the front end can be seen, does it look like a 4 or a 6? That's salt water behind the church. 

 

 

 

(Removed a pic that was here, showed a 1929 Chevy four door, from almost the same perspective, but only had two windows per side.)

 

(Restored the pic since it was referenced in the next comment.)

 

Edited April 18, 2019 by bluenose25
picture need for subsequent comment (see edit history)

[BearsFan315]

that is cool, i have been restoring my 1929 4 door sedan for almost 6 years now, and soon it will be back on the road.... learned a TON about the 1929 Chevrolet, options, features, etc... the original picture you posted, 1 & 2 look like the standard 4 door sedan. very mush like what i have.

 

as for wheels, Disc were standard and wire wheels as an option as well as wood spoke. 95% of the 1929 i have seen are disc

 

the last picture you posted has a optional spare on the side, tail light is on the side vs in the spare carrier (center) which means they either have a trunk in the center without the spare or just moved it over to fender. assume no spare since it is on the front fender. it also has the landua bars and roof look. see picture below. also has the plates on the running board, has cowl lights. no mirror in the options as i see, but may be wrong on that one. and the signal/ yellow loghts are all modern, not a feature or option on 1929. I have tons of info and specs on the 1929. 

 

there were 2 engine variations in 1929...

gen 1 was solid valve cover and flat open style push rod cover air filter return went from oil fill tube ( this is what i have in my 1929)

...this allowed dirt & debris to get into the engine where pushrods were, also sealed valve cover did NOT let engine breath, and trapped moisture inside the top half. many valve covers rusted bc of this

gen 2 was vented (3 slots) valve cover and stamped/shaped sealed style push rod cover air filter return went from rear boss tube

...corrected the issues noted above, this was the design that was improved upon on the 6 cyl as it was used for many generations.

 

shot of rear w/ spare tire carrier, bumpers and brake light all before I got the car

 

good shot after car got back from Interior, roof, and pin striping ( Thanks Ted [Chistech])

 

1929 Gen 1 Engine with Sealed Valve Cover, air filter is NOT installed yet, but you can see the connection point on the Oil Fill Tube behind the generator

 

1929 Gen 1 Engine opposite side where you can see the Flat Open Push Rod Cover (open around spark plugs)

 

this is a gen 2 push rod cover i found, notice the stamped/contour shape to help seal out debris

 

still looking for a gen 2 valve cover, 1929 was a single year, then 1930, then 1931-32 are very similar, but vary in height. any will fit, but would require replacing the studs with longer ones to be able to hold them on with the acorn nuts !!

 

Yes i HAVE THOUSANDS of pictures of 1929 through the process

Edited April 18, 2019 by BearsFan315 (see edit history)

[Guest]

A Canadian or American '29 Chevrolet would have disc wheels 95% of the time.  It might not have had a radio originally (although they were available).  It would have depended on how powerful the nearest city's transmitter was.

Of course it would have lasted 10 years.  My Pontiac, basically the same body with next higher priced running gear is still on the road with 500,000+ miles on it.

 

It is really neat to have these old family photos.

Edited April 18, 2019 by Guest (see edit history)

[bluenose25]

Thx BF315.  I like the motorless car pic,  the horsepowerless carriage.

 

For the left rear corner of this car, in the extreme blow up of the church/car picture with the blue circles and red arrows, is there anything else that could account for the light spot the red 2 is pointing at (with red 1 the bumper)? Seems to me that this is a taillight, and if so this car is different from the car in the very first pic of this post, the one parked beside the porch. Too high for a licence plate? The leftmost of these three is just for reference.

 

     

[bluenose25]

Tinindian, you got me wondering about radio broadcasts.

 

"Nathaniel Nathanson wanted to sell more records, phonographs and radios at his book and music store in Sydney (Nova Scotia). He stocked a good selection of radios and sales were good despite limited reception of signals. On a good night you could pick up three or four U.S. stations, but only after dark and only when reception conditions were right. Nate, as his friends called Nathanson, felt radio sales would be much better if Sydney had its own radio station. So Nate bought a ship's radio and had it altered to work on land. Radio Station CJCB officially went on the air February 14 (1929). It was on the air for one or two hours at lunch time and three hours in the evening. Power was only 50 watts. The "CB" in the call sign represented Cape Breton. CJCB made a frequency change to 890 kHz."

 

It would have been unlikely that my Mom could have listened to the Sydney channel 60 miles away when it only had 50 watts of power, but a new broadcast tower was put up in 1934 that had 1,000 watts. That might have worked after sundown. Country music - explains her proclivity for it later in life.

 

I'll assume disc wheels, then.

 

As to longevity of this car, I am looking through other family pics for newer cars to see how long my grandfather might have had this one.

 

[BearsFan315]

looking at the picture of the car in front of the church it looks like an older or different car, based on the roof. or it is NOT a Chevrolet ?!? the vinyl on hte roof was clearly defined .

also that car at the church looks way more SQUARE in the rear then the Chevrolet. also does NOT look to have the spare tire on the fender either. 

a few shots of my roof, you should be able to see the outline of hte vinyl section. 

 

 

 

Edited April 18, 2019 by BearsFan315 (see edit history)

[BearsFan315]

one thing that does baffle me some in the original picture, the cars looks to have a squared off rear upper body ?!? see the red outline in the picture. this is not Chevrolet ish, the other body lines, reaer tire, cover, etc 

 

looks to be clearly defined hard edge, vs rounded on the Chevrolet ?!?

[bluenose25]

I would disagree on the hard edge - I think the line is caused by sunlight that just can't bend around the curve or show the gradience of the curve.

 

 I would agree that the roof of the church car appears to be mono-texture, i.e. no vinyl. Did all the '29 Chevys like this have that vinyl insert? Having seen your roof, I may be able to see something on the roof of the "porch" car pic, and also on the keiser31 pic, but not really on the wood-spoked car pic.

 

Here is a new-found pic to compare side-by-side to the original pic.

 

This link has a series of pics for this car.

https://www.mecum.com/lots/FL0118-310983/1929-chevrolet-sedan/

 

 

[DLynskey]

I agree the car in the first photo looks like a 1929 or 1930 Chevrolet 4 door sedan. The differences between the two years are very subtle and would not be discernable without a much better photo.

 

The car at the church looks larger than a Chevrolet to me and has a lot of features that are not "Chevy like".

 

As far as the roof insert, ALL 1929 and 1930 closed cars had a fabric roof. The manufacturers didn't have the capability of forming full metal roofs until around 1934. Most earlier sedans had a fabric insert as seen in the first photo as well as all of the others in this post except one.. The car above with the sidemounts is an upscale Landau sedan with a full fabric top to emulate a convertible. Here the fabric covers the entire roof from the drip moldings just above the doors to the windshield in the front and to the belt molding at the rear. The car at the church appears to have the second type of top. 

 

Interesting photos.

 

Don

 

[bluenose25]

Thx, DLynskey, I had no idea about the fabric rooftops of pre-1934 cars. (It would probably be an impossible mission to find another '28 Martin Landau.)

 

If the car at the church is different than the Chevy by the porch, it most likely wasn't my grandfather's then. He had the '23 Buick, and then this '29 (or '30) - his next car must be a late 30-something. The picture of the car at the church must just have been a picture of their church.

 

Is there a catalogue-like list at AACA of body types with depictions of the differences? Phaeton, etc. Also for the parts of cars in general. I'd find that helpful.

[DLynskey]

1 hour ago, bluenose25 said:

..(It would probably be an impossible mission to find another '28 Martin Landau.) 

 

I don't  know about a '28 Martin Landau, but here is a 1928 Chrysler Landau, series 52. The fabric is in poor shape on this one, but you can see that it covers the entire top down to the rear belt line. Compare it with the above detailed photos of the insert in the roof of a standard sedan.

 

 

 

And this is what was underneath the fabric top covering. The "landau bars" were there to make it look like a convertible. It's obvious this top  would not fold.

 

 

 

 

1 hour ago, bluenose25 said:

 

Is there a catalogue-like list at AACA of body types with depictions of the differences? Phaeton, etc. Also for the parts of cars in general. I'd find that helpful.

 

Not only is there no standardized list, but the early makers used a lot of imagination in naming their body styles. Well, I guess they still do. what was a "touring car" for one was a "phaeton" to another manufacturer, and later some "convertible sedans" were labeled "phaetons"; sounds more impressive. You will find a number of threads in this forum about the definition of various body styles.

 

Don

[bluenose25]

Something to explain how a car with 6 windows can be called a 5-window, I hope.

 

 

 

[Gunsmoke]

1928 and 1929 Chevrolet Landau's are not that rare, occasionally they come up for sale, and unlike the "fake landau" Chrysler above, the Chevrolet's had a fold down back quarter, making for a rather unusual "parade car" like appearance when running. The style was discontinued because of small demand, and difficulties with keeping water out at the roof joint. While they would have been a practical option in warmer weather climates, I don't expect many were purchased in Canada! 

 

You may also be interested in the Chevrolet line that in 1931 (I know more about that specific year) there were 20 different models, with 7 body styles, Sedan (4 doors), Coach (2 door Sedan), Coupe (in 3 configurations-3 window, 5 window, and 5 passenger), Convertible Cabriolet, Roadster, Phaeton and Convertible Landau Phaeton. Most were available in a base or standard model, and an upgraded model, sometimes referred to as a Special, or a Deluxe, or as a Sport model (or a combination such as "Deluxe Sport Coupe". These upgrades typically included addition of twin sidemounted spares wheels, cowl lights, radiator stone guards, bumpers (they were not standard equipment from factory but added by dealer) and upgraded interior accessories (ashtrays, window blinds/upholstery), and in the case of the Coupes, might include a rumble seat instead of a more conventional trunk. By 1931 all came with Wire Wheels. 

 

I live in your neck of the woods, Halifax area, but born in CB. Here is photo of my still under restoration 1931 Coach. To make life more difficult for you, this car was assembled in Canada, and marketed as a Special Coach, as it has cowl lights, sidemount spares etc. GM in Canada did not use the term "Deluxe" for some reason. The framed picture is advertizing from September 1931 Saturday Evening Post 2-pade ad showing all 20 models. 

 

On your question about 5 window/3-window etc, when referring to Coupes/Sedans, the windshield is not counted in the phrase. So a 5 window sedan would not have rear quarter windows and a 7 window sedan would have rear quarter windows, a 3 window Coupe only has a window in each door and a rear window. Clear as mud!

 

You seem interested in learning quickly about all the models and terminology of the old car hobby. There are people like myself who have studied it for years and still learn something new every day. So be patient. I suggest boning up on one particular model (Chevrolet or Ford for example where there are lots of real examples around) and then expand to other makes. In late 20's early 30's there were probably  30 or more decent sized car companies in North America alone, so the knowledge to be learned is immense. 

Edited April 19, 2019 by Gunsmoke (see edit history)

[bluenose25]

Good information and advice. Thx.

 

[BearsFan315]

a few shots of a 29 Landau, not rare but not many of them out there. i know 2 owners

very cool cars

[bluenose25]

Interesting to see the hinge action, how the top collapses.