Dave Fields

1925 Franklin gas in oil.

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Bought the Franklin coupe from the Mecum auction in Houston. Car came in with a dead battery and about 2 gallons of gasoline in the oil pan. It had a 6 volt electric fuel pump running through the vacuum tank. Since it is an updraft carburetor my belief is the electric fuel pump pushed the gas through the vacuum tank and into cylinders where it washed down. The car immigrated to the USA from Honduras via legal channels so most likely the gas in oil was an attempt to start it before the auction as vehicles are shipped dry. Thoughts? It is an older high quality restoration.

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Your assumption is probably right.  I would remove the electric fuel pump, drain the engine, remove the plugs and squirt a little oil in each cyc,  put the right amount of fresh oil in and turn it by hand.  Drain the oil line to the gage and then prime the oil pump.  Fill the vac tank and try and start it.

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29 minutes ago, Dave Fields said:

Bought the Franklin coupe from the Mecum auction in Houston. Car came in with a dead battery and about 2 gallons of gasoline in the oil pan. It had a 6 volt electric fuel pump running through the vacuum tank. Since it is an updraft carburetor my belief is the electric fuel pump pushed the gas through the vacuum tank and into cylinders where it washed down. The car immigrated to the USA from Honduras via legal channels so most likely the gas in oil was an attempt to start it before the auction as vehicles are shipped dry. Thoughts? It is an older high quality restoration.

 Couldn't be too high quality if that happened.

 

Is there a shutoff or bypass to keep the vacuum tank from over filling and flooding the intake manifold back thorough the vacuum line to the vacuum tank? 

 

My advice is, fix the vacuum tank so it will likely get the carb float level back down to where it's not flooding, and forget it has an electric pump.  The difference in float levels between gravity or pressure feed will just cause running problems.

 

The vacuum tanks on Franklins supply more than enough fuel capacity,  under all driving conditions,  when they are rebuilt correctly by someone experienced. 

 

Paul 

Edited by PFitz (see edit history)
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Drain and fill the crankcase. Disconnect the electric pump and go back to stock. Pull plugs and crank engine with new battery till you build oil pressure. Put a little bit of oil in the bores before you install new plugs. Start and drive the car like you stole it.........couldn’t be simpler!

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Good advice, to drive the car like you stole it -

Before taking off carefully check that all the lights work. You don't want to be pulled over by a cop because of something stupid like a burned out license plate light.

 

While you are at it check oil, coolant, brake fluid, battery, tires are in good shape and at proper pressure, You don't want to be broken down beside the road in a stolen car.

 

When you get going drive carefully, keep your eyes peeled for cops, do everything to avoid the slightest fender bender, obey all speed laws and traffic laws.

 

Yes drive it like you stole it indeed.

Edited by Rusty_OToole (see edit history)

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Don’t forget to use the correct water pump grease or the radiator could get plugged............and DexCool is best for the application. 

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2 hours ago, PFitz said:

 Couldn't be too high quality if that happened.

 

Is there a shutoff or bypass to keep the vacuum tank from over filling and flooding the intake manifold back thorough the vacuum line to the vacuum tank? 

 

My advice is, fix the vacuum tank so it will likely get the carb float level back down to where it's not flooding, and forget it has an electric pump.  The difference in float levels between gravity or pressure feed will just cause running problems.

 

The vacuum tanks on Franklins supply more than enough fuel capacity,  under all driving conditions,  when they are rebuilt correctly by someone experienced. 

 

Paul 

There is a switch for the electric fuel pump. The restoration is of a high quality. There is no provenance for the person or persons who attempted to start the car in Houston or Central America. 

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11 hours ago, edinmass said:

Drain and fill the crankcase. Disconnect the electric pump and go back to stock. Pull plugs and crank engine with new battery till you build oil pressure. Put a little bit of oil in the bores before you install new plugs. Start and drive the car like you stole it.........couldn’t be simpler!

Ed, Drive it like you stole it??? In the case of a 1925 Franklin , you will be beside the road in about 30 miles with a hole in the crankcase and oily  parts on the road.

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12 hours ago, Dave Fields said:

There is a switch for the electric fuel pump. The restoration is of a high quality. There is no provenance for the person or persons who attempted to start the car in Houston or Central America. 

 No offence, but when someone creates a dangerous situation like putting an electric fuel pump on a vac tank system without a way to prevent flooding the engine, it tells me someone didn't know what they were doing. That's not my idea of quality.

 

That situation makes me wonder what else they didn't do right. Others, including some pro shops that take short cuts that cause problems, rather than fix the car the way the factory designed it, has been over half my workload in 37 years in the restoration business. Forgive my attitude, but In those decades I've learned that wear is not so much the enemy of old cars as those who "inflict repairs" on them.  

 

Alright my rant is over - on to the helpful pitch.

Are you a member of the Franklin Club ? If not, then know that just about any question you could ever have about operating, maintaining, and restoring Franklins has been answered in the members only indexed Q&A section of the Club's website by the owner/operators of two full-time, Franklin restoration shops. I highly recommend joining the club. If your going to drive and maintain a Franklin, you will save far more than the $40.00 yearly membership cost.  

 

Paul

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11 hours ago, Frank DuVal said:

If there is no coolant in the Franklin, how does the driver breathe?

 

😂

Very relaxed and happy.;)

 

Paul

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I have found, when trying to revive cars that have been out of commission for many years, the hardest part is fixing the botched repairs done to try and get it going again. Next hardest is undoing the damage done by long storage. Easiest part is fixing the fault they took it off the road for in the first place.

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Paul has sage advice regarding an electric fuel pump mixed into a vacuum tank to get the fuel to flow. WHY? to lazy to get the original system sorted out to the way it was when it was new? or if you don't know , find out who has had it done and go to them. Join the Franklin Club , if there are modern replacement parts that will make the Franklin go as intended the members  will have tried them out and you can rest assured that what you will buy and install will work well with no problem. Better to sort it out properly first rather then to just dump some oil in it and think that will then lube everything that has been washed clean by the gasoline that should not have been there. I was going to mention use "common sense" but as a good friend told me ( and Paul as well) 30 years ago " everyone has common sense , not everyone has good sense" .

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One other danger of using an electric fuel pump with a vacuum tank of later Series 10, 11 and 12 Franklins. The engine exhaust pipe passes under near the vacuum tank.   

When the pump is on, if it is allowed to fill the vacuum tank, not only does that risk gasoline pouring through the 1/8 inch vacuum line directly into the intake manifold as the tank is filling, when the inner tank reaches full, the float will be up which shuts off the vacuum line and switches on the tank's  external vent. Then the vent tube, which points down over the edge of the top cover, will be spraying raw gas down to splash on the steering column and box and the hot exhaust pipe below the tank. 

 

As for needing the electric pump to prime a vacuum tank, that shows something is wrong with the tank, and/or, the feed line to the tank. When the engine is shut down and the vacuum tank shutoff valve closed, there should still be at least several minutes of engine running gasoline left in the vac tank for the next start up. A tank in good condition will start drawing fuel just on the lower vacuum of the engine being turned over by the starter motor. 

 

So there is no need of electric pump when the time and money is better and safer spent getting the vacuum tank working properly. And that involves more than just a rinse and putting  new gaskets in. It's a job best left to someone qualified to do the job properly. Once done properly , it's good for a few more life times of driving.

 

Paul 

Edited by PFitz (see edit history)
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If there is no coolant in a Franklin, then it is in a vacuum, therefor the driver can NOT breathe! Same applies to Corvairs....

 

Friend talking to Corvair/Franklin/Beetle owner  "Did you check the coolant?"  Reply, "yes, I can breathe so the car is fine".

 

Both the driver and the engine require intake of oxygen from the atmosphere. (Fuel, Air, Spark)

 

Also, all cars are air cooled!  Most just use a water to air heat exchanger to remove heat from the engine.

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49 minutes ago, Frank DuVal said:

If there is no coolant in a Franklin, then it is in a vacuum, therefor the driver can NOT breathe! Same applies to Corvairs....

 

Friend talking to Corvair/Franklin/Beetle owner  "Did you check the coolant?"  Reply, "yes, I can breathe so the car is fine".

 

Both the driver and the engine require intake of oxygen from the atmosphere. (Fuel, Air, Spark)

 

Also, all cars are air cooled!  Most just use a water to air heat exchanger to remove heat from the engine.

 

I thought it was just a Tesla roadster that is driving in a vacuum ?:huh:

 

Franklin did use the term "direct air cooling" in their literature. But most Franklin owners don't get that fussy about terminology - they're too busy enjoying the car.:D

 

Paul  

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No dust in a vacuum. There would be no breeze or draft to raise it! Well, no flying dust then. It would fall under gravity and just sit.

Edited by Spinneyhill (see edit history)

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1 hour ago, Rusty_OToole said:

I would hate to drive in a vacuum, it would be very dark and dusty in there.

 Yeah, I would imagine it really sucks. 

 

Well, we know somebody HAD to say it.😄 

 

Paul

Edited by PFitz (see edit history)

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On 4/16/2019 at 8:06 PM, edinmass said:

Don’t forget to use the correct water pump grease or the radiator could get plugged............and DexCool is best for the application. 

No you have me thinking there will be a grease fitting somewhere for the shrouded fan.

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2 hours ago, Dave Fields said:

No you have me thinking there will be a grease fitting somewhere for the shrouded fan.

 

 

Its right next to the zerk  fitting for the muffler bearing.

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