1928 Pierce Arrow at Bonham's auction

[AlfaTazio]

I'm considering bidding on Lot 433 at Bonham's Tupelo auction, but...its more than a 12 hour drive to check it out. and I am wondering just how much I can check, assuming :

 

The engine crankcase is empty, as well as the gas tank, so, the car will not be able to start to demonstrate the engine running, nor whether the piston rings, or tranny gears are stuck, nor any serious leaks once the engine would run and come up to temperature.

 

Bonham's themselves must have great experience with these issues, and disclaim any potential or real problems.

 

So, aside from judging the exterior and interior bodywork, just how am I expected to evaluate spending between 25-40 K?

 

Anyway, if any forum members have seen this car, i would appreciate a quick note on its more obvious condition.

 

Thanks,

 

Jay

[drwatson]

First place to start might be to ask Bonham's customer service. Here's a link about the car.  https://www.bonhams.com/auctions/25593/lot/433/

See what they say about your concerns.

[1950panhead]

https://www.bonhams.com/auctions/25593/lot/433/

Purchased by the collection from an auction in Auburn, Indiana in 1991. The subject of an older restoration, the car has not been driven in some time and will require recommissioning before active use

The car sat for 28 years.  If they removed all the gas from the tank, lines, carb it may be easy to get running again, if not you have to get all the old gas out and any mess it left.

 

So, aside from judging the exterior and interior bodywork, just how am I expected to evaluate spending between 25-40 K?

It is worth what you or anyone is willing to pay.

Hire someone to advise you or fly there and look for yourself.

[Rusty_OToole]

47 minutes ago, AlfaTazio said:

So, aside from judging the exterior and interior bodywork, just how am I expected to evaluate spending between 25-40k?

You're not. You are expected to shell out all that dough, plus buyer's premium, admission fee, travel cost etc and just take a chance. If you lose tough bananas. This is why I never buy at these auctions. That, and a lack of money.

[edinmass]

As a Pierce Arrow owner who has had more of them than just about anybody still drawing air.......here are my comments..........40 plus years of experience with Pierce cars........

 

 

Museum cars are always terrible...........repeat that one hundred times over to your self.

 

You are buying the car as is, where is, they won't even guarantee you its a car, never mind a Pierce Arrow.......

 

Since they are readily available, and not hard to find, I would NEVER consider one that isn't running, unless the price is 10k or less.

 

you can EASILY spend 40-60 grand doing an engine.....you might get lucky and spend only 25.......

 

Parts are just about impossible.......anything.........is very difficult to locate............

 

I won't even mention the color of the car...............this speaks volumes about the rest of the work done to the car.......

 

Underhood is a MESS.....wires and fuel lines look like a ten year old worked on them........

 

If you have a driving sedan already then the gamble of an open car makes sense. Realistic price on the car running is about 35 to 40 thousand today........

 

I don't like to be negative, but unless you drive there and inspect it yourself, your taking a huge chance. I would pass on that car for 15 if it were offered to me. 

 

What will it sell for?...........hard to say, depending on the crowd.....its not easy to get to, so my guess is a dealer who can handle making it run with rubber bands and then it gets flipped.

 

That is the 1928 Series car..........they are not the legendary Pierce 8 or 12, a nice car, yes, but they are a 40 mph car.

 

Unless you can throw away ALL your investment and be OK, I would buy a sorted and running car..........it will cost you three grand for tires and tubes, and yes....it needs them.

 

Could the car be made into a fun driver.....yes..........money and time to get it there are a true unknown.......

 

Good Luck! Ed

Edited April 10, 2019 by edinmass (see edit history)

[mercer09]

very nice looking car, but if you need to do mechanical work, will get costly. Auctions tend to be for suckers...........

 

you are bidding against 1 or 100 other people. much better to make an appt, meet an owner and be the only buyer, for that day.............

 

totally agree with Rusty.......forget auctions unless you just want to pay too much and enjoy the crowds.

[Matt Harwood]

Hard pass. A Pierce-Arrow that hasn't run in decades with no sense of whether it even turns? Hard no. Absolutely not. DO NOT BUY.

 

Bonham's doesn't know anything about the car, its condition, whether it runs or can be made to run, or anything else critical. You'll note their description says exactly nothing about anything important--some extensive boilerplate about Pierce-Arrow the company and a few lonely sentences about this particular car, mostly about what kind of body it is wearing (which is obvious by looking at it). They don't know anything about its mechanical fitness and they're hoping nobody looks too closely or asks too many questions. At best they have verified that the title matches the VIN--maybe.

 

Everyone seems to think the auctions are staffed by an army of experts who are tuning and finessing the cars to perfection. They're absolutely not doing that. Most of their employees don't know anything about cars, and they don't have a staff of experts sweating over the cars to make them perfect. They've got some high school kids wiping them off. However, they'd sure like you to THINK they're sweating the details and tuning the cars and fixing all the broken stuff, and they've done a great job at cultivating that impression. In reality, they're lucky if they have enough people to push the cars onto the stage.

 

Auctions are where I send my trash. I know I am not alone.

 

 

Edited April 10, 2019 by Matt Harwood (see edit history)

[John_S_in_Penna]

On 4/10/2019 at 3:10 PM, Matt Harwood said:

Bonham's doesn't know anything about the car, its condition, whether it runs or can be made to run, or anything else critical. You'll note their description says exactly nothing about anything important--some extensive boilerplate about Pierce-Arrow the company and a few lonely sentences about this particular car... 

 

I don't care for a meaningless car description.

There is 10 times as much information about the

history of Pierce than there is information specific

to this car.  What person spending $25,000-40,000

on a Pierce-Arrow, and then tens of thousands more

to get it working, doesn't know the basics about the

company?

 

Now, if the car were a Pilot or a Roamer or a Garford,

some explanation of the history might interest a buyer.  But

the auctioneer really needs to tell honestly and forthrightly

about the CAR.  "Old restoration, paint checking and 

cracking.  Radiator may need recoring.  Hasn't been run

in 28 years, so bring a trailer with a winch and, for now,

consider this a stationary object."  Such honesty would

win praise and future business!  

 

Mr. Alfa, I agree with others:  This is not likely a good buy for anyone.

 

 

Edited April 12, 2019 by John_S_in_Penna (see edit history)

[Rusty_OToole]

Ed I am surprised you describe that as a 40MPH car. I would have thought a 75HP  Model 81 with light weight coupe body would do better than that. I would have guessed a top speed around 80 and comfortable cruising speed of 50.

As for your other remarks I bow to your experience. I would have expected a senior Pierce with a T head engine to be very expensive to rebuild, am surprised the smaller simpler engine is that much. Also that no parts supplies survive.

[60FlatTop]

I would look it over thoroughly for $1200 per day plus travel expenses. I would lean toward the optimistic side, though. Over the past half century I have heard so many stories about a group of experts analyzing an old car to death and the potential buyer regretting the sage advice for the rest of their life.

 

Whatever you spend the car will never be a total loss. If you get in deeper than you are comfortable you can always find another buyer. $10,000 or $50,000, as long as you aren't dipping into the grocery money, in the end, it will surely be a "net positive experience".

 

I look back on my life and my regrets are things I didn't do. Things I didn't because of someone's advice are the worst.

 

Tupelo is 17 hours from my place, but I'd fly.

Bernie

[Graham Man]

 

Looks like a nice 1980s restoration.  Looks like vinyl interior.  It would be nice to pull the pan, engine is going to be a dice roll.  My guess is more like the 25K range?  At least the car is complete.

 

I wonder if they would try to crank the engine over?  should have the crank start under the front seat.

 

My vote is pick a price you can afford before the auction, enter in late and go to your price, if it goes over walk away knowing you tried.  I have fired up cars that have sat longer without any problems, just did a 1928 Graham-Paige 6 that sat in a guys garage for 40 years, the brakes were more work than the engine.

Edited April 10, 2019 by Graham Man (see edit history)

[Grimy]

2 hours ago, edinmass said:

you can EASILY spend 40-60 grand doing an engine.....you might get lucky and spend only 25.......

Ed, you've been hanging around V-12s too long!  A Series 80 or 81 engine build is about $10-12K, done in OH and arranged thru GLong.  That's where I'm sending my S80 engine.  Dual valve engines 1921-28 are probably twice that.  HOWEVER, the S81 has an aluminum head which is problematic and virtually unobtainium--and do NOT believe the El Paso company even if they say they have one on the shelf.  Someone else did repop S81 heads, but they're probably gone by now.  But you can use a S80 cast iron head and paint it silver unless you intend to compete in the rarefied atmosphere that Ed frequents these days.

 

AlfaTazio, it depends on what you'll use the car for or want it to do.  A virtually identical car sold within past year, running but still needing TLC, for about $45K.

[franklinman]

I personally love that word "recommissioning". Exactly WTH does that tell anyone? It has become an all too commonly used term with the auction crowd.  To me it says that no one has any idea (or refuses to admit) what condition the car's mechanicals are in, and that it could require anything from an oil change, gas and a new battery all the way up to a full mechanical restoration.  When you're dealing with a car of this type, those costs can, and often do, go through the roof!  For my two cents worth, I would be very suspicious and fully expect the worst. YMMV. 

[Hupp36]

If  someone is  truly interested in that  car, GO and  see if  you  can  make the  engine  turn over. If  not  unless  you  were  born  a  rich  man, forget it.

[edinmass]

When I refer to rebuilding an engine, I also include all thr associated accessories, new pistons, new valves, new valve springs, new bearings......rods,mains,cam, clutch, radiator, ect...........and........Rod, cam, mains, parts and labor...........are well over three grand, then you still haven’t mentioned shipping, r&r the engine, ect. Want to take bets on the head? Or the radiator? And a correct core is going to be about three grand more.......I only do work at what one would call the professional level, and yes, there are part time people out there who can do an engine like this for 12 grand, and, as a matter of fact, I fix them after they have been through several other shops.........

 

my point is PROFESSIONAL experienced people today on pre war cars don’t work for thirty or forty bucks an hour.......depending on location you can go as high a 325 and in the corn belt states you may get good work for 45.......... if your helpless and can’t do anything yourself..............25 grand is on the low end for a cheap (read as half assed) rebuild. I don’t run 90 year old pistons for any reason, and using modern pistons and ring packages you get much better results. That said, there are a few good small shops that can do excellent work........but the line is very long...........and you will wait a long time to get your stuff done. 

 

 

[Grimy]

3 minutes ago, edinmass said:

When I refer to rebuilding an engine, I also include all thr associated accessories, new pistons, new valves, new valve springs, new bearings......rods,mains,cam, clutch, radiator, ect...........and........Rod, cam, mains, parts and labor...........are well over three grand, then you still haven’t mentioned shipping, r&r the engine, ect. Want to take bets on the head? Or the radiator? And a correct core is going to be about three grand more.......I only do work at what one would call the professional level, and yes, there are part time people out there who can do an engine like this for 12 grand, and, as a matter of fact, I fix them after they have been through several other shops.........

 

my point is PROFESSIONAL experienced people today on pre war cars don’t work for thirty or forty bucks an hour.......depending on location you can go as high a 325 and in the corn belt states you may get good work for 45.......... if your helpless and can’t do anything yourself..............25 grand is on the low end for a cheap (read as half assed) rebuild. I don’t run 90 year old pistons for any reason, and using modern pistons and ring packages you get much better results. That said, there are a few good small shops that can do excellent work........but the line is very long...........and you will wait a long time to get your stuff done. 

I had a PM conversation with the OP on many of these issues to determine how much he can do by himself.  Grunt work of R&R engine, radiator, etc is on top of "rebuilding an engine" which is what you said--but not $30-40K by any stretch for a S80/81.   Also asked in thread is what use he wants to make of it, i.e., tour vs very major concours.  I fear you are scaring people away from Pierces, Ed....

[edinmass]

I would never want to do that.....or any other car........that being said, there is ten time more very poor and incompetent work being done.  And 99 percent of my comments arn’t just for a Pierce. The hobby is evolving and changing in new and in many instances complicated ways. My point was to buy a known good driver, a long dormant museum car is NOT the way to get into the hobby reguardless of the brand............the least expensive car you can find is ALWAYS the most expensive. Want a Pierce.....join the club and buy a sorted car........thr biggest problem today in a down market is new blood buying projects.......the absolute worst decision you can make. Buy a car you can drive........a known quantity........let’s face it people like you(Uncle George)  and me are a long lost breed.........new people should only buy the best car they can afford........too many people overlook closed cars.........start small, and get to experience the learning curve......bypass the Hollywood cars until you have a few thousand miles on them.......I think the museum car is fine.........at a price half or less than the low estimate...............pay forty and spend another forty........and we get burnt out people before he get a chance to have some fun. 

[Matt Harwood]

I have to agree with what Ed is saying. There are plenty of cars running around (probably most of them) that are simply "good enough." I just can't have sold 900 cars in the past 10 years and somehow found the only 900 cars with needs. They ALL have something or other wrong with them. They have ALL been victims of hack mechanics. They have ALL been patched up by a guy who figures "good enough is good enough." They ALL have owners who just want them to run and drive now and then, and don't really care about going from 75% to 99.9%.

 

I think the bigger point is that "good enough" is not good enough, and I agree with that. There are too many cars with too many cut corners. Just because they run doesn't mean they're right. And too many of us make excuses for old cars that aren't right. "It's just a hobby." "Fix it up as you go." "You can do a lot of things yourself." "Doing it is the best way to learn." All good advice, but also all part of the path to "good enough." Without a frame of reference, you will surely settle for less without even knowing you're doing it.

 

Ed has discovered that there is a significant difference between "good enough" and "right" and that difference makes owning an old car an entirely different experience. I agree 100%. Good cars are a joy, but good cars only make up maybe 1-2% of the old car population because few of us can afford (or even know how) to make a car right. That's why most are simply "good enough." Most folks simply don't know the difference. That's not a sin.

 

Now, do I agree that the only goal going in should be perfection? No, and I don't think Ed is saying that, either. But he is saying that making a car right is very expensive and that there are other cars at comparable cost that are much closer to being "right" than this convertible coupe. Ed has decided that he only wants to own and drive right cars and only wants to work on cars where the goal is making them right. I totally get that. It's not something most of us can afford, but I respect the dedication and effort and it's a worthy goal for us all. It's nice to have someone else bankrolling it, but that doesn't change the degree of difficulty or the rewards when you're done.

 

You can roll the dice with $30-40,000 and maybe all this Pierce needs is a relined gas tank, a rebuilt carburetor, and some fresh fluids to be ready to use. Or maybe the engine is seized or the block is cracked. The problem is that you won't know until you put your hand in the air and write the check. Once you get the car home and learn that it's badly hurt, there's no going back. You can't sell it, you can't return it, you have to either dump it for a fraction of what you paid or start writing more big checks. The question is: do you feel lucky?

 

Unless you can afford to go to Vegas and drop the purchase price of that car on #16 on the roulette wheel and walk away after one spin, then buying that Pierce Arrow can be very, very risky.

Ask me how I know...

[Rusty_OToole]

You might add, you can't even palm it off on another sucker at a 'name' auction without paying swingeing fees.

[AlfaTazio]

Well, at least I will not have Ed, Rusty and Matt, et al., bidding against me at this auction, what a relief. Fellas, please spread the word that this car really stinks, and maybe I can snag it for a great price.

 

Ciao,

 

Jay

[edinmass]

I must confess, I was Intrested in another car there, and intended to fly in and bid on a car for myself. I was able to get some photos and history on the car and have decided to pass on it. It will be an interesting sale..........and how strong or how soft prices are will depend on a bunch of variables. My best guess is the cars will be on the lower end of the estimates...........the Model J and big Nash my have a good run..........the tucker will be interesting to see sell...........Let the auction entertainment begin! 👍

[Terry Bond]

44 minutes ago, AlfaTazio said:

Well, at least I will not have Ed, Rusty and Matt, et al., bidding against me at this auction, what a relief. Fellas, please spread the word that this car really stinks, and maybe I can snag it for a great price.

 

Ciao,

 

Jay 

Mission accomplished Jay, competition in the gallery successfully stifled.

 

[Rusty_OToole]

Ed do you remember Ron Fawcett? He was a big Pierce Arrow man from Whitby Ontario and from what I hear, a good mechanic.

[edinmass]

Sure......he was a very well known restorer of Pierce cars........his son is still servicing cars last I knew a few years ago. He did mostly early cars but did a few later ones also. Nice family. Active in the Pierce Club for many years.

[nick8086]

My two cents.. all the old car cost money.. Just do not tell the wife how much....

 

I just bought one bolt off ebay for 65.00..

Edited April 11, 2019 by nick8086 (see edit history)

[edinmass]

The only thing cheap on an antique car is the owner..............

[Rusty_OToole]

The more I look at that coupe the funnier it looks. I think those tires are way too big.

[1935Packard]

6 hours ago, nick8086 said:

My two cents.. all the old car cost money.. Just do not tell the wife how much....

 

I just bought one bolt off ebay for 65.00..

 

 

 

That reminds me of when I was at Hershey a few years ago with my wife.  I bought a little plastic knob for my Packard. And I showed it to my wife, who said:

 

WIFE:  I'll bet that little plastic knob was $50.

ME: That would be something, wouldn't it.

WIFE: Was I close?

ME: 50, exactly, dear.

 

[mercer09]

The only thing cheap on an antique car is the owner..............

 

 

damn straight!

[edinmass]

It’s sad restoration costs are running away like they have been for the last ten years...........it’s going to alter the hobby in ways difficult to predict. The cars aren’t going anywhere, and finished cars will still be collected and driven, but the days of total restorations done in one shop are going to be fewer than before, and only one the very rare and super exotic. I think cars like the Model A and a Model T will find new interest as they are simple to work on for a back yard mechanic, and parts are readily available and affordable.

[60FlatTop]

16 hours ago, franklinman said:

I personally love that word "recommissioning". Exactly WTH does that tell anyone?

 

It is a Navy term for bringing a ship into operation, usually with a new purpose. Properly decommissioned is the word you WANT to hear the seller say. Old cars are abandoned in many ways. A museum car could best be called "benevolently abandoned".

 

A ship or building can be "mothballed" when taken out of use, decommissioned, but be careful where you use the term. I monitored a mothballed building with an obsolete nuclear accelerator where the previous occupants had taken the IT communications switch with then and severed my network connection. I put in a trouble call to the IT help desk about our problem. After a week without restored communication I called to follow up. The technician wouldn't go into the building because of the mothball gases.

 

Sometimes you get a pain when you laugh.

[Matt Harwood]

Well, they're not wrong in saying that you'll have to work on it to make it operational again. They don't know just how much work it will need; they're obviously being vague since they don't want you thinking too much about it. They're really hoping that you won't bother looking too closely and that you'll simply assume that it's good to go with a fresh set of plugs--they did say it would be a great tour car, after all.

 

Plus when you start thinking that you can have an open Pierce for 50% of market value and get all excited, maybe you'll leave logic and reason at the door. Auction fever is real--they're counting on it--and by being vague they feed that fever (and as a bonus, they're not at all responsible later when you find out that "recommissioning" actually means "another full restoration").

[Restorer32]

We made top irons for Ron for 2 of his early Pierce tourings  many years ago.  

[Restorer32]

I seldom praise auctions but I must give Sotheby's a thumb's up. Client of ours bought a $100k car that was described as in good shape mechanically.  After about $11k in desperately needed engine work we made the car road worthy. Our client complained to Sotheby's and to their credit they paid the entire bill for the repairs.  I can only assume they then went after the person who consigned the car and obviously misrepresented its condition.

[edinmass]

On ten percent of the hammer price I am surprised they would even bother to complain. It’s easy to dump three grand on six new tires today. Depending on thr customer the auction house will listen to reasonable complaints, of very big dollar cars. Let’s face it, the best money you can spend on a car is hiring an expert to go over it, and if you spend money and they tell you to pass on the car, it’s even a better value. 

[Rusty_OToole]

Where can you auction a collector car for ten percent? I thought it was 20% plus 10% or 15% buyer's premium plus admission fee plus other fees for paperwork. They really rake it in.

[Matt Harwood]

20 hours ago, Rusty_OToole said:

Where can you auction a collector car for ten percent? I thought it was 20% plus 10% or 15% buyer's premium plus admission fee plus other fees for paperwork. They really rake it in.

 

10% is pretty standard, although many charge an entry fee and a premium for both "prime time" and/or TV time if it's an option. Both buyer and seller pay a commission. The auction house will often negotiate on both ends to get the deal done, which is how they're often able to sell cars for a below-reserve price and still pay the seller full price. I resent it, because I'd be out of business in a week if I charged an extra 10% (people lose their friggin' minds over the $150 we collect to do title work and pay to FedEx paperwork back and forth), but in most cases, the auction house is pulling 20% on every car. Some have truly egregious sliding scales where the vig is 10% on the first $25,000, 15% up to $100,000, and 25% on anything over $100,000. It's nuts, but since you're at an auction, I guess it's all OK.

 

22 hours ago, edinmass said:

On ten percent of the hammer price I am surprised they would even bother to complain.

 

You'd be shocked by what people complain about if they think they can get someone else to pay for it. In fact, just moments ago I was dealing with a guy who bought from me what might just be the world's finest 1969 Pontiac GTO convertible. It was a Ram Air IV convertible built out of a real Ram Air III car, commissioned by the legendary Rick Hendrick and restored by John Kane Restoration, the world's leading GTO shop, at a cost of nearly $200,000. It was a true #1 car in every way and we gave to the guy a $10,000 discount on an asking price that was already about 1/3 the cost of the restoration. That guy is going to have the nicest car by far at any show he attends (it won't even be a fair fight at the local cruise night) and I can count on one hand the number of cars I've had that were better. Check out this incredible car:

 

 

Anyway, he found a mark on the passenger door. I go over the cars pretty carefully and I didn't even notice it. It was so minor, he said he couldn't even take a picture of it, but it was there nonetheless. The truck driver who delivered the car pointed it out and said it was a rust bubble, and boom! Upset customer who seems to want a rather significant hand-out. YOU BOUGHT THE NICEST GTO IN THE UNIVERSE, GOT A 15% DISCOUNT ON IT, AND YOU'RE $(@*ing COMPLAINING?!?

 

People are ...... They always want something for nothing. And the auction companies, like me, are probably interested in happy customers and not people who will tell everyone that they think they've been screwed. They know we'll cave because we value our reputations. So they do it just to see what kind of hand-outs they can get. They embarrass themselves and use up all their good will (you think I'm answering this guy's calls when he needs information about the car in the future?).

 

Sorry, rant over. People definitely suck.

 

 

[60FlatTop]

11 hours ago, mercer09 said:

The only thing cheap on an antique car is the owner..............

 

That stigma really hurts an owner willing to pay a fair price considering what it takes to run a legitimate business. "Those whom came before" have put the service provider on his guard. Some will do the bare necessity, some will cut corners to "save you money", some will tell you they will cut the rate and work during slow times. I have seen the chiselers out there. It hurts to follow behind them. One ends up guilty by association.

 

To the Pierce-Arrow in the topic, the answer to its value is in the motivation of the buyer. If there is something to the ownership that really rings the bell inside the buyer, whether technology, style, history, art, whatever; then with due diligence and a little common sense, it will be an overall good experience. Anyone buying the car so others can see them in a tin Great Gatsby costume, well, it probably ain't going to work out. The auctioneer knows how to find out. That's his job.

Bernie

[Ed Luddy]

5 hours ago, Matt Harwood said:

 

10% is pretty standard, although many charge an entry fee and a premium for both "prime time" and/or TV time if it's an option. Both buyer and seller pay a commission. The auction house will often negotiate on both ends to get the deal done, which is how they're often able to sell cars for a below-reserve price and still pay the seller full price. I resent it, because I'd be out of business in a week if I charged an extra 10% (people lose their friggin' minds over the $150 we collect to do title work and pay to FedEx paperwork back and forth), but in most cases, the auction house is pulling 20% on every car. Some have truly egregious sliding scales where the vig is 10% on the first $25,000, 15% up to $100,000, and 25% on anything over $100,000. It's nuts, but since you're at an auction, I guess it's all OK.

 

 

You'd be shocked by what people complain about if they think they can get someone else to pay for it. In fact, just moments ago I was dealing with a guy who bought from me what might just be the world's finest 1969 Pontiac GTO convertible. It was a Ram Air IV convertible built out of a real Ram Air III car, commissioned by the legendary Rick Hendrick and restored by John Kane Restoration, the world's leading GTO shop, at a cost of nearly $200,000. It was a true #1 car in every way and we gave to the guy a $10,000 discount on an asking price that was already about 1/3 the cost of the restoration. That guy is going to have the nicest car by far at any show he attends (it won't even be a fair fight at the local cruise night) and I can count on one hand the number of cars I've had that were better. Check out this incredible car:

 

 

Anyway, he found a mark on the passenger door. I go over the cars pretty carefully and I didn't even notice it. It was so minor, he said he couldn't even take a picture of it, but it was there nonetheless. The truck driver who delivered the car pointed it out and said it was a rust bubble, and boom! Upset customer who seems to want a rather significant hand-out. YOU BOUGHT THE NICEST GTO IN THE UNIVERSE, GOT A 15% DISCOUNT ON IT, AND YOU'RE $(@*ing COMPLAINING?!?

 

People are @ssholes. They always want something for nothing. And the auction companies, like me, are probably interested in happy customers and not people who will tell everyone that they think they've been screwed. They know we'll cave because we value our reputations. So they do it just to see what kind of hand-outs they can get. They embarrass themselves and use up all their good will (you think I'm answering this guy's calls when he needs information about the car in the future?).

 

Sorry, rant over. People definitely suck.

 

 

Well put Matt! I do not deal in higher end cars because I can't afford to lose the amount of money that goes with trying to sell them to the a$$hats who always do nothing but bitch no matter how far you bend over or drop the price. I do find many nice cars for sale and have a very small number of people who I will arrange to buy them at a discounted price that leaves them enough to resell thru their respective dealerships in Canada and Europe. But only one guy who takes them to USA auctions. He pays what I ask after I show and tell him via phone and email. Right now buying in Canadian $$ and selling in USA $$ is very lucrative and "easy money" Only if you know what your buying for resale.

    I get offered many higher end cars that are likely on the money but it seems that market whines the loudest over the most trivial stuff. More like bragging rights when telling buddy the story of how he "lowballed" the desperate seller and then went back for more money after the sale. 

[Ed Luddy]

These 2 Chevrolets were examples of very well documented original Canadian cars with unquestionable pedigree's that I was able to find new homes for without dealing with public morons.