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Here in my section of eastern PA the Forester is everywhere.  The Crosstrek is aimed at a younger audience and the seating and view from the driver’s seat reflects that.  Foresters and Outbacks are the most common models I see.  

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thank you all                       I guess  don't have a reason to give my wife for waiting another years before we buy her  a     'NEW CAR '

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Being a car enthusiast I have never had a "perfect" car, one where I liked everything about it. I doubt anyone makes the perfect car for me and, if they did I couldn't afford it. That said, our one car is a 2017 Subaru Forester, the "Touring" model with all the driving assists -- front collision avoidance, backup and cross traffic warning, speed adaptive cruise control, etc., etc. At my age I really appreciate those features and will have them on whatever I might own in the future. I like the large windows with clear visibility and all wheel drive although I really don't need it in coastal SC.

 

My biggest complaint is the CVT. As has been pointed out, the CVT in theory offers a continuous range of drive ratios. In practice however, Subaru and other makers decided that drivers are accustomed to feeling gears shifting so they program the transmission to provide synthetic shift points that make it feel like it's shifting gears. Unfortunately the Subaru computer program is not well done. Under hard acceleration as with merging into fast traffic the poor little engine works itself to death while the transmission surges back and forth trying to find an optimal ratio. Cruising with slight throttle at lower speeds also leads to annoying surging as the transmission hunts for the correct setting. Most people don't seem to notice it, but it is annoying to me and even my wife, a non-car person complains about it.  I brought it up to the service manager and, without even taking a ride to appease me, said basically "Oh, I get at least one of those complaints a week, There's nothing I can do except take down your name in case Subaru comes up with something. You just have to learn how to drive it."  LEARN HOW TO DRIVE IT? I think not. I've been driving for 60 years, everything from 1920's non-synchromesh to an occasional big truck. Doesn't do much to build confidence in their service department.

 

I like my Forester otherwise so will continue to drive it. My daughter has had several Subarus and loves her 2015 Crosstrek which has a lot of miles on it. She says hers doesn't have that behavior. Several of my friends have various Subarus with the CVT and none of them seem to have noticed the "surging".

 

Bottom line. I don't know if the Crosstrek uses the same program but drive one for a day or two if possible and see how you like it. 

 

Don

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Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, mike6024 said:

It appears to be a very sophisticated system. The mechanical engineering effort that went into the design is huge. And you need to integrate that with software and electronic control. How do you make pulleys that change their diameter smoothly and seamlessly? Or do they change their diameters in small increments; so small that it seems continuously variable? I sympathize with the service manager. I suppose he means use of the throttle can be learned to minimize the "hunting." That's the way it was with 3 speed automatics; don't stomp the accelerator so hard that it needs to "kick down."

Aside from any other automatic's torque converter and valve body the CVT is very simple. The one thing you must remember is these pulleys are CONE pulley's and a single belt. the belt size is fixed and it travels between these two cone pulley's changing the ratio. Cones move in or out depending on oil pump pressure.

 How a CVT works! (Animation) - YouTube

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xHWqlfDZnmQ

Edited by Pfeil (see edit history)

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Posted (edited)

I can speak to this post; as we have had 2 Subaru's, with their CVT.  Wife has had 8 new model Subaru's, from the WRX to the Forester. 

 

The first Subaru for us was a 1998, 2.5 RS, the one patterned from the Rally cars; and the first CVT for us was a 2014 Subaru Forester..  I was skeptical, at first; but within minuets of driving that car; I was amazed.  Quicker pickup from a stop (Yes, I said quicker), and the smoothness is unbelievable.  And actually better fuel mileage; than her previous 2010 Forester with conventional automatic transmission. No issues of any kind. 

 

We lave a long driveway,  out in the country, and Snow country.  I never have to plow to get the Subaru out in the winter.  I do put dedicated Winter tires on; because of the amount of snow we do get.  but really those tires look a lot like All-Season tires anyway.      

 

Jump ahead to 2018. She bought a Subaru Crosstrek, loaded up with a lot of goodies and Subaru's Eyesight; and it has the CVT. Smaller engine than the Forester; but lighter car.  This car is equally amazing, coming from a 4 year old car, the 2014.  It is quicker than the 2014; though not a high performance car. The CVT is awesome.  We live in a mountainous area, Allegheny Mountains of PA; hardly any  flat land driving and she gets 34 mpg in the Winter. The Crosstrek  is a smaller car, but very capable for camping or hauling sports equipment, etc.

 

My advice to you is go to any dealer and take a long test ride in whatever Subaru model, that fits your lifestyle.  And again, never had any mechanical problems, with any of those cars.

 

intimeold   

 

 

 

Edited by intimeold (see edit history)

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Problem with CVTs is max toque capability. Being essentially a friction device at some point you overpower the friction.

Second issue is that modern cars have a very wide torque band, 90% of max over a 4000-5000 rpm range. Given that the ability of a CVT to hold a specific engine rpm becomes somewhat irrelevant. Of course given that I do not understand 7 to 10 gear trannies either. My Jeep tow car has a five speed and turns 1900 in lockup at 70. It gets better gas mileage than my modern GM car with the same size engine, much better cdA,  800 lbs lighter, and more gears.

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1 hour ago, padgett said:

Problem with CVTs is max toque capability. Being essentially a friction device at some point you overpower the friction.

Second issue is that modern cars have a very wide torque band, 90% of max over a 4000-5000 rpm range. Given that the ability of a CVT to hold a specific engine rpm becomes somewhat irrelevant. Of course given that I do not understand 7 to 10 gear trannies either. My Jeep tow car has a five speed and turns 1900 in lockup at 70. It gets better gas mileage than my modern GM car with the same size engine, much better cdA,  800 lbs lighter, and more gears.

 

First, there are CVT's that can handle high torque and HP. Ever hear of EXTROID CVT? So, that problem has gone away.

Second, 4,000 to 5,000 rpm is not a wide torque band. It's a narrow band, and with most cars having a small displacement engine it is imperative that with these smaller engine cars that the ECM and the engine and trans work together to put the peak HP and the peak torque right at same moment to utilize the best WOT results. That means holding the engine at the rpm those two peaks converge!

 Want to see a wide torque band? My 455 Pontiac makes gobs of torque from 1500-4800 rpm. and at 5200 rpm it's still making twice+ more than the average passenger car engine today,  hence, you don't need all those ratios. But that's 500+ ft. lbs. of torque and it's dinosaur talk. Those cars will never come again.  

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