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Looking for some feed back.   re:  Is it time  to replace my 8.5 year old Bias Ply tires.  Treads very good.  Sidewalls appear to be good with no obvious cracking.   Tires have been on the road 10K miles.  

Should I replace these because of age?  I am thinking of radials next because I don't trust tube tires now  since one went bad on me a 60 mph.

Appreciate any thoughts.

 

Wayne

1941 Buick

 

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Good plan Wayne.

I run radials on all my vintage cars because I drive them. Bias ply and tubes are ancient technology.

Why risk it?

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I bought radials that look like bias from Coker for my car. Unless you are worried about points for judging, it seems like a good option. 

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Ten years or 10,000 miles on biased tires for cars that came with them is my rule of thumb. I trust radials for up to 40,000 miles if I can do it in less than six years. I am not comfortable with the aging characteristics of radials.

 

How did the tire go bad at 60 MPH? A piece of debris in the road could do it, but that wouldn't be the fault of the tire.

 

Ancient technology isn't so bad here. We still haven't enjoyed the full effect of the glaciers receding 10,000 years ago. My kids say I still have a millennia of progress to make before I can become a throwback.

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I don't really know if there's a single rule of thumb. Too old is too old, but when is that? I don't know. 15 years is too old, but is 7? We all have our personal guidelines and the tire companies will issue theirs, but there can't be any single rule that covers all situations. I had a brand-new bias-ply on my '41 Limited fail at speed within 48 hours. I had a brand new radial from the same manufacturer fail with less than 10 miles on it but after 5 years. I drove my '29 Cadillac for two years on 40-year-old Lesters, and I believe there's one member of this forum using ancient whitewalls on his Buick.

 

I don't have an answer. Trust your gut and what you see and feel rather than simply looking at it as a calendar thing. And if you really want the radials but are afraid of throwing away tires with life left in them--don't. The radials are SO much better, you'll never have a moment's regret about making the change (for my $0.02, I recommend Diamondback over brand X).

 

I don't know if this helps, but I hope it does.

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He never said what kind of car and year.

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Posted (edited)

You got it Matt,

Still driving around on my (?) old "Martin Custom Tires".

Nary a crack, bubble or blemish, but I did put new tubes in them about 4 years ago.

No highway cruzin, but lots of around town driving.

 

Have old Denmans on the '31 Imperial, and the same story, they look like new.

 

Mike in Colorado

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Edited by FLYER15015 (see edit history)
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It just depends is the answer.  I have run cars on 40 year old plus tires and on other cars I order sets the day I buy the car.   On a 1941 Buick though I would be running radials (as long as the radial is designed to be run tubeless) .  I ran my 1941 Cadillac 60 Special with set after set of bias ply and never gave it a thought, but now the radial options are so much more prevalent. 

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By the way, I drove on a set of Martins that were ancient (on a 1941 Packard Darrin) and then we decided to upgrade - when we pulled the tires off a portion of the bead had delaminated from the sidewall and on all 4 tires - your own version of a hula-hoop. Let's just say everyone was very fortunate. 

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1 hour ago, John_Mereness said:

. . .   On a 1941 Buick though I would be running radials (as long as the radial is designed to be run tubeless) . . .

 

I am curious about this. Please explain why a tube type radial would be an issue? I don't recall reading or hearing about issues with radial type tubes being used in radial tires.

 

For what it is worth, I've considered putting a set of the now available tube type radial tires on my '33. My main reason for going to radials would be for better tread life, I'm only getting between 10,000 and 15,000 miles out of the currently available bias ply tires. But am still worried by the controversy I've read about rim failures when using radial tires on older wheels. If I had a Model A or early V8 Ford where I could just buy a new set of wheels I'd not worry. But correct rims for my car are only available used so I'd rather not damage the ones I have.

 

20 hours ago, 414TATA said:

. . . I am thinking of radials next because I don't trust tube tires now  since one went bad on me a 60 mph. . .

 

That is a bit of a worry. I had a tube fail on me a little over a week ago coming back from a camping trip. Fortunately I was going slower than 60 as I was entering a fairly long curvy grade. And fortunately, it happened in an area where I had just enough room between the guard rail and pavement to be out of the traffic lane.

 

FlatTire.jpg

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Brakes are good,tires fair,got safety tubes and I ain't scared.Commander Cody.

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Thank you all for the feed back.  I am ordering radials. (Diamondbacks  Matt🙂)

Yes these will be for my only collector car the '41 Buick Super 51

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There is nothing inherently wrong with radial tubes in radial tires. With some types of rim you must run a tube. It is better to run tubeless if you can, because a puncture in a tube type radial will cause sudden deflation just like it does in a tube type bias ply tire. In a tubeless tire you are more likely to get a slow leak and have someone point and say "hey buddy, you got a low tire!". You might even be able to re-inflate it and drive to the tire shop.

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2 minutes ago, Bloo said:

There is nothing inherently wrong with radial tubes in radial tires. With some types of rim you must run a tube. It is better to run tubeless if you can, because a puncture in a tube type radial will cause sudden deflation just like it does in a tube type bias ply tire. In a tubeless tire you are more likely to get a slow leak and have someone point and say "hey buddy, you got a low tire!". You might even be able to re-inflate it and drive to the tire shop.

 

Most '41 Buick wheels will hold a radial without a tube. I didn't use them on my Limited or on my '41 Cadillac 60S and they don't have any issues. Tubes are just another failure vector and as Bloo points out, going tubeless can actually be safer in many situations.

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With a tubeless tire you can pick up a nail or screw from the road and usually get home. With a tube the problem is immediate.

 

I grew up in a tire shop. That has probably affected me genetically. 10,000 to 12,000 miles is pretty good wear on a biased tire. Ten years of properly inflated life is a good expectation. If they are 7.60 or larger, at ten years they are good to put on a hay wagon.

 

If you show up at a car meet with 30 year old tires you will get a better greeting than you will showing up with a 30 year old car.

Bernie

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14 hours ago, Bloo said:

. . . It is better to run tubeless if you can, because a puncture in a tube type radial will cause sudden deflation just like it does in a tube type bias ply tire. In a tubeless tire you are more likely to get a slow leak and have someone point and say "hey buddy, you got a low tire!". You might even be able to re-inflate it and drive to the tire shop.

 

3 hours ago, 60FlatTop said:

With a tubeless tire you can pick up a nail or screw from the road and usually get home. With a tube the problem is immediate. . .

 

That makes sense. Thank you for the explanation!

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I run old bias ply tires too often, new tires are expensive.  I watch the tires closely and stay under 60mph (the carcass likes to overheat around 60mph, old tires like to  delaminate from the tread if they get too hot)  Tire pressure makes a huge difference in tire temperature, I check almost every trip.  My problem lately has been the tubes, bought a set of six tubes for my 29 about 5 years ago.  Last spring the valve stem was just laying on the rim, it just fell off (tire flat).  I grabbed and pulled on the other tube valves, with no failures.  I replaced the tube but am still leery every time I take it out (switching to brass valve stems, hope that helps).

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Being frugal I run modern radials on everything. Seems to me the answer is two sets of wheels and tires,  one set for events and a second set for everyday. That is what I always did with race/autocross cars. Judge in particular this way since stock 14s with 2 ply (4 ply rated) tires were "not even safe in the driveway" - Goodyear tire engineer.

 

I carry a tube/iron in some of my modern cars simply because there is no room for a spare. Do not try to run a tube with TPMS sensors though.

 

Back in the day we used to paint the insides of rims to control porosity.

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20 hours ago, ply33 said:

 

I am curious about this. Please explain why a tube type radial would be an issue? I don't recall reading or hearing about issues with radial type tubes being used in radial tires.

 

For what it is worth, I've considered putting a set of the now available tube type radial tires on my '33. My main reason for going to radials would be for better tread life, I'm only getting between 10,000 and 15,000 miles out of the currently available bias ply tires. But am still worried by the controversy I've read about rim failures when using radial tires on older wheels. If I had a Model A or early V8 Ford where I could just buy a new set of wheels I'd not worry. But correct rims for my car are only available used so I'd rather not damage the ones I have.

 

 

That is a bit of a worry. I had a tube fail on me a little over a week ago coming back from a camping trip. Fortunately I was going slower than 60 as I was entering a fairly long curvy grade. And fortunately, it happened in an area where I had just enough room between the guard rail and pavement to be out of the traffic lane.

 

FlatTire.jpg

Tubes in radials are an acceptable practice and they make radial tubes.  That being said though, a certain brand of radial tire I thought had too aggressive of a construction pattern in the interior and I was having tube issues as a result (or at least that appeared to be the issue - but unsafe any way about it if having problems with anything).  Thus, if you can run tubeless via a tire designed to run tubeless (you have to calk around any rivets of spokes (I calked and then calked a gutter strip in too), you can eliminate any tube issue.

 

For those installing tubes, I would always use a heavy duty tube (some clearly marked for radial use), run your hand over surfaces and make sure no sharp pints on rim or ..., use a gutter strip (or perhaps a flap if appropriate), talc the wheel/tube/casing to allow tube to not stick to anything, make sure there are no stickers or anything sticky, and use care installing.

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Posted (edited)

This was some sort of tube issue. - I am now running a Toyo with whitewall applied from Diamondback (so far so good).   By the way, the tread totally delaminated off the sidewalls and was perfectly intact.   Tube was well on its way to an issue of fire - big melted mess.

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Edited by John_Mereness (see edit history)
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3 hours ago, padgett said:

Being frugal I run modern radials on everything. Seems to me the answer is two sets of wheels and tires,  one set for events and a second set for everyday. That is what I always did with race/autocross cars. Judge in particular this way since stock 14s with 2 ply (4 ply rated) tires were "not even safe in the driveway" - Goodyear tire engineer.

 

I carry a tube/iron in some of my modern cars simply because there is no room for a spare. Do not try to run a tube with TPMS sensors though.

 

Back in the day we used to paint the insides of rims to control porosity.

 

Another person who had to paint high porosity wheels back in the day!

Robert

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