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Should a new thread be opened for discussion of BCA BOD Nominees?


Peter Gariepy
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Should a new thread be opened for discussion of BCA BOD Nominees?   

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  1. 1. Should a new thread be opened for discussion of BCA BOD Nominees? (NOTE: It will be heavily moderators to adhere to forum rules, ie civil, constructive and NO personal attacks.


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  • Poll closed on 04/02/2019 at 03:38 AM

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12 hours ago, Pete Phillips said:

"With that in mind, can anyone summarize--perhaps without using names--what, exactly is going on? Can both sides be explained in a cool, calm way so that someone like me (and I presume a great majority of the BCA membership) can sort of understand what's going on?"

 

Since I am a writer, I will try to summarize:

I think the bad feelings began when the Driven Class (not judged to high standards, but a little more than just "display-only) cars were relegated to a remote parking lot that was walled off from the rest of the meet by a high fence at the South Bend, IN. national meet. This led to a feeling among Driven Class and non-judged car owners that they were being treated as unwanted step-children compared to the cars being judged in the 400-point classes. The awards banquet at the end of each national meet tends to reinforce that perception, with most of its emphasis being on trophies and awards. Pre-War cars, being harder to get parts for and tougher to keep in an original state--especially if you want to drive them on today's roads--tend to congregate in the Driven Class, the Modified Class, or the Display-only class, unless the owner is well-heeled enough to do a total restoration and bring the car to the meet in an enclosed trailer. There are exceptions, but that's the norm.

 

 

The bad feelings got worse when in subsequent national meets the Pre-War (and other) cars were separated from each other depending on what they had signed up for (400-point; Archival; Display-only;  Modified, or Driven Class), and at some meets there were assigned parking spaces for the entire meet, based on what type of judging or non-judging the car's owner had signed up for.

 

 

In the meantime, people got elected to the BCA Board who were and are quite stratified in the types of Buicks they focus on. We have some Board members who are only interested in Pre-WWII cars, and have little knowledge or interest in newer Buicks. Likewise, we have some Board members who are only interested in the later model Buicks and have little knowledge or interest in the older ones. This deepens the divide.

 

 

Add to that, a lack of financial reporting to the membership of the club for nearly three years, following the sudden death of our long-time club accountant, Joel Gauthier, and suspicions tend to build up about what is going on with the club's finances. This has recently been rectified, with the publication a few months ago of an annual financial report in the magazine, but it took nearly three years to do so and a lot of reputational damage was done in the meantime. In addition, an outside auditing firm has recently been hired, after a Board member made an issue out of the lack of audits and adequate financial reports for many years and the club's build-up of a large financial reserve, which, (from my perhaps uninformed point of view), the reasons for and size of the reserve were not adequately communicated to new Board members as they came onboard. When the reserve reached or got close to $700,000, one alarmed Board member reported the club to the IRS, out of fear that it would lose its non-profit status, and when he could not get a majority of the Board to acquiesce to his concerns. He also alleged wrong-doing by some, but that has not been proven and should not be brought up unless or until it is proven, and I doubt that it will be. Carelessness--maybe. Evil or bad intent--I sincerely doubt it.  This has made the divisions and bad feelings even worse.

 

 

At about the same time, the BCA Board majority removed the Director of the BCA's Pre-War Division due to concerns that the division's membership records were not being tracked and newsletters were not being distributed with regularity. The majority of the  Board then took the step of appointing another Pre-War Division Director, and this person at about the same time attacked the Board member who reported the club to the IRS, with a petition for his removal from the club. At the same time, the Pre-War Division held their own election and elected another member as their Director. So, now you had two competing directors for the same Division--one with a lot of "baggage" due to his very public attack on the Board member at a national meet and not having been elected by anybody other than the Board majority, and the other duly elected but by a somewhat questionable list of Pre-War Division members.

 

 

This brings us down to the current BCA Board election situation, in which there is a definite "us versus them"  group, as well as a couple of unaffiliated or perhaps uninformed Board candidates in the current group of eight candidates. Much like the national Republicans versus Democrats, each camp is making claims about the other that are probably more extreme than reality. For example, the establishment group (for lack of a better term) is not against Pre-War cars or non-judged cars as the challengers might have you believe; and the challengers (for lack of a better term) do not want to eliminate BCA judging (as the establishment group would have you believe), they just feel there is too much emphasis on it. So, that's where we are, and I will probably be attacked by one group or the other for what I have written above--so be it. I'm a 40-year BCA member who has had a lot of involvement with the club and that's my perspective, as fairly as I can write it.

Pete Phillips, BCA #7338

 

Thanks Pete.

 

It is just a shame you were not able to actually publish this or something similar in the April Bugle for all BCA members to see. It would have been a much more accurate reflection on the situation than what was actually published about the election in that issue.

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13 hours ago, Pete Phillips said:

". When the reserve reached or got close to $700,000, one alarmed Board member reported the club to the IRS, out of fear that it would lose its non-profit status, and when he could not get a majority of the Board to acquiesce to his concerns. 

Pete Phillips, BCA #7338

 

The reserves never reached  $700,000.  It has been in the $ 500,000 range for the past few years.   The incoming BOD members and all the BOD members get a financial sheet as soon as I get it from the accountant from the prior month.

 

$ 500,000 reserves would  pay bills for a year and a half if we got no reserves and no renewals.

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I voted yes, as a former member who believes in open, honest and respectful dialog. I choose not to renew my membership when I recieved an all-caps DM from a Board member lecturing me about how to interact on the forum. This is a hobby, not national politics. The lack of civility among some in the club truely astounds me. I hope you can get your house in order.

Edited by Buick64C (see edit history)
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I just read the bios provided by Mr. Gariepy.  I don’t expect to see my hard copy of the Bugle for about 3 weeks yet.  I’d prefer it if we could have a civil discourse about the BOD election, but I fear that we wouldn’t be able to act adult enough to have it.  I’ve been around long enough to have met many of the BOD candidates.  One question doesn’t seem to be asked in general is with departing members of the BOD, what skills will remain on the board and what will the board require?  Emphasis on that may help us to move from a popularity contest to actually creating a more functional, cooperative board.

 

Overall, I have to express my disappointment at the bickering occurring in recent history.  How do we go from “I choose not to have my Buicks judged and don’t participate in judging” to being accused of wanting to dismantle judging if elected?  How do we have a system that was so reliant on one individual that his passing caused so much turmoil?  I believe having better systems and procedures and backup plans is a better way to go.  

 

I’ve received emails from both camps.  They certainly tempt me to vote for the two individuals who are in neither camp.

 

I’ve been a member about 16 years, joining in time to participate in the 2003 event in Flint.  I’ve since attended many National Meets, joined a couple Divisions (and didn’t renew in one of them), have hosted a couple tours that some Gopher State Chapter and local BCA members participated in, and have been a Gopher State Chapter member since late 2005 / early 2006 - I initially joined to offer volunteer assistance for he 2006 meet.

 

As I joined after the 400 point system was implemented, I can’t comment what the meets were like before then.  I do wonder how things have changed.  I also wonder what the banquet at the National was like before 400 point judging (I am assuming there was one).  From personal observation and opinion, I do think there is perhaps too much emphasis on 400 point judging overall.  My 23 year old daughter and I (and perhaps my 21 year old son...I forget) have attained the points to be recognized as Senior Judges in the BCA and have had some of our cars judged in the 400 point system and have had both disappointments and pleasant surprises with the 400 point system.  I love that there is recognition for archival cars that haven’t been restored and recognition for members who have driven their Buicks to the event.  I would never advocate eliminating the 400 point judging, but I think some tweaks and changes are in order to improve the system and reduce the stressors involved.

 

I enjoy the BCA and the Bugle.  I’ve made great friends that I never would have met but for attending National meets and this forum.  I am grateful for them.  I’m also grateful for the overall quality of the Bugle and would prefer it not be forced to receive cuts, even though I’m not “into” the Buicks featured in every issue nor in love with every article.  I do read every issue from cover to cover.  This is a hobby and I think we’d all be wise to remember that.  My children have been raised as part of the BCA - they were 3, 5, and 7 at our first event in 2003.  I’ve witnessed the decline of the youth programs at the National meet, but appreciate that there also seemed to be a demographic shift in attendees and in recent years I’d say we have an increase in family / youth attendees, so it would be ideal if we could institute those programs again.

 

I’ve been asked a number of times to let my name stand for the board elections and I do see that happening in the future.  At the present I have personal / business reasons for not doing so.

 

Sorry for the ramble.  I wish this overall situation was less contentious.

 

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Let me say ABSOLUTELY that there has never been said that judging would be eliminated by Shaw, Moran, or Suarez, and also myself.  The discussion has and continues to be to not make it the over riding priority of the meet.  I know that I have said more than once and put it in writing that if you want to spend $100,000.00 on a $25,000.00 car, please do. 

 

Judging by definition is an exclusive activity to say that mine is better than yours.

 

What has been said by this group is that the club needs to be more inclusive and the way to be more inclusive is to make it more younger family friendly.  Not going after that group, the club will continue to decline in members.

 

As for financials, they were not published for three years.  This year is the first year in four that they were published.

 

If anyone would like to talk to me about my perspective, please give me a call.  I am in the directory or leave me a pm. 

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11 hours ago, Brian_Heil said:

Thank you Pete. Well stated. 

 

Additional points on the PWD if I may. 

 

The PWD Interim Director appointed by the BOD, who did the attacking, was subsequently removed from his PWD position by the BOD.  I believe the BOD Minutes recording this action have yet to be posted. 

 

The PWD member who was elected PWD Director, chose to relinquish his position to make the PWD election a moot point, end any discussion on the election, who voted or who did not vote and revert the PWD Directorship back to Mr Shaw.  

 

The PWD has been working with the PWD Membership and the new BCA Office to improve the PWD membership roster.  Note this effort is not the Bugle PWD 2.0 article as that effort did not generate any shared information once that individual was removed by the BOD. 

Call me dumb but I found the three paragraphs hard to follow. 

 

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17 hours ago, ted sweet said:

and will result in many on other side leaving the club?

Ted, I have no idea what you are talking about; errrr, well if you think one side or the other holds a whole half of the club, I think you're wrong.  I think 50% of the people want the ads and don't care one way or the other about the national meets which normally are too far away or the politics.  Personally, I went to a BCA Meet in Flint in 1971 & 1972 and to a national meet in Richmond, VA somewhere in the '90s AND Allentown.  I got a special invitation because I was #55 and under the first 100 members.  I thought that was nice, but I was introduced by name at the banquet.  I guess I need to comment on judging.  I'm a died in the wool Buick nut prior to 1950, and I like some individual years afterward.  For example I own a 1991 Buick Park Avenue show car.  But, I also like other American cars.  So, over the years I've been mostly dedicated to AACA....and I like what they do, with regard to Meets and Tours.  As to judging and restoration, you can restore almost any old car for somewhat reasonable costs, especially if you do the work yourself.  It's the original cost of some old as-is car that kills you.  All of my restorations used to be done in my garage and I won many big awards back in the day.  You can do it, as Johnny Cash said in the song, one piece at a time.  My most recent restoration cost me about $25,000 to do on what should have been a $1000-1200 car that cost me $20,000.  The idea, or as it's always been understood by me, is to conserve history and therefore build and show a car as close to the way it was sold new as  possible and that's what I've always done.  Oh yes, I've replaced babbitt bearings with inserts and a '39 Buick oil pump with a 1941-53 oil pump with larger gears, but that didn't show to the public.  You don't have to go trophy chasing just because you restore it where restoration is needed.  If it's worse than that, you should be driving it anyway.  If they don't look like the factory made them, then I personally don't see any point in having them if you can afford a more modern "beater" to drive to work.  I just got rid of a car that I felt the painter had done a sloppy paint job on.  I couldn't stand to look at it when I got it back.  So, say I'm particular. 😀

Edited by Dynaflash8 (see edit history)
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11 hours ago, Smartin said:

The good thing is that you can choose to ignore the drama.

 

and hallelujah, I can do that now. Duh, so why the hell am I here. See y'all, I'm off to the great Okefenokee swamp, no cell, no internet... much safer there, only alligators and pesky blood suckin mosquitoes to deal with. Love ya all!!! (you too Terry :lol:)

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5 minutes ago, Silver Streak said:

A plain black 54 Special will score higher than a red 54 Roadmaster convertible.

 I understand how a plain black 54 Special could score higher than a red 54 Roadmaster convertible. However if both are equal in authenticity, condition and workmanship why would the Special score higher?

 

Carl

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This thread is wandering a bit off course.

BCA members should all vote for candidates, that they know will have the best interest of the bCA at heart. It is interesting that we always get back to judging , while saying no one wants to do away with judging. Some existing BOD members are mentioned as being "Pro judging". This thread is not about existing BOD members, it is about BOD candidates . Three members say they have no intention of doing away with judging,  just changing it.  If we have three candidates , who all mention judging in their bio and make reference to "changing it" enquiring minds would like to know, Change it how? Some would say , there is too much emphasis placed on judging.  I would say in what way?  (if you are going to go back to parking, I think everyone's eyes will just glaze over) 

I am often referred to as Pro Judging. *I do not think that is a bad thing. The BCA has used the AACA system to create their own 400 point system and it is one of the fairest possible ways to judge a car. I have often been refereed to on the Internet and the forum as "Judging only". I am not even sure what that means. I tour more than I have my cars judged, and I use my BCA "Senior Gold" car on tours. It has never seen a trailer. 

I am pro judging. I did support three candidates in a letter. Are those three the only choice for everyone? NO!. Vote for the candidate( s) that you feel have the best Interest of the BCA in mind !!

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Larry Schramm and Silverstreak in particular, but true for everyone:

 

Please... as in ALL OTHER threads on the AACA Forums, stay on subject

Judging is NOT what this thread is about.

If you want to debate the merits of the BCA judging do it somewhere else.

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6 hours ago, 1937-44 said:

Create a new thread or not?

 

Don't know that it matters.  Seems to me that all these threads (deleted and otherwise) are populated by the same few folks.  Which might lead one to conclude that most folks just don't care.  They belong to the BCA for the magazine, because they think they should if they own an old Buick, out of habit rather than interest, or whatever.  The club itself isn't that important to them; the makeup of the BOD even less so.  For as hot and bothered as some are about the machinations in Denver or parking layout or the importance of judging or the promptness of financial disclosures, one might deduce from the pervading indifference that the overwhelming majority of the membership either does not know or does not care about any of that.

 

So, do what you will.  Some folks will be happy with the results, some won't; some will gloat and some will grumble; and most will have tossed their ballots in the trash without ever filling them out.

 

As for me, I've been distinctly unimpressed with the tenor of the whole debate.  I'm kinda thinking that if I've got $50 to further my enjoyment of my cars, I might get more utility out of a new tool or a tank of gas.  And if you really stop to think about it, that holds for many of the rest of you as well.

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KongaMan makes some very good points!  Many join a national club to learn more about their cars than what they might find in a general publication they might find on a newsstand display.  Our The BUGLE fits that bill exactly!  They might venture in here every so often with questions, get answers, and not used these forums as a part of their daily lives.  Many might not personally know the candidates, so they don't vote for them?  And life goes on for them as they further enjoy their Buick and the magazine dedicated to them.  From the national club dedicated to only Buicks.

 

Enjoy!

Willis Bell  20811

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This poll is closed to new votes
  1. 1. Should a new thread be opened for discussion of BCA BOD Nominees? (NOTE: It will be heavily moderators to adhere to forum rules, ie civil, constructive and NO personal attacks.

 

The floor has been closed for discussion and the votes have been counted. The nays have it. The motion fails.

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2 hours ago, Ronnie said:

 

The floor has been closed for discussion and the votes have been counted. The nays have it. The motion fails.

 

I wouldn't call 36 votes out of 6628 members representative. What a joke.

 

Al Malachowski

BCA #8965

"500 Miles West of Flint" 

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On 3/30/2019 at 10:40 AM, Smartin said:

People are going to vote for those who they already know...call it a glorified popularity contest?  That said, I do think most of the nominees have a common goal in mind.  I don't think it's going to help to start another thread.

 

Or they might pick out the names of the candidates who they DON'T know and vote for them.;) 

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28 minutes ago, 1953mack said:

 

I wouldn't call 36 votes out of 6628 members representative. What a joke.

Just like with any club I've ever been in,  the members fall into two groups. One group tries to help make good decisions to make the club better and the other group complains about the decisions that were made.  It's the nature of the beast. No joke. :)

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3 hours ago, 1953mack said:

I wouldn't call 36 votes out of 6628 members representative.

 

Which goes back to the earlier point that most members just don't care.  You've got a few people in a cage match to the death while the overwhelming majority are oblivious and/or indifferent.

 

Which is kinda too bad, because folks might raise an eyebrow at some of the goings-on if only their eyes were open to begin with.

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