LeBaron Bonney

[Steve Moskowitz]

I do not like rumors but I had an email from a former employee of this company that they filed for bankruptcy on Friday.  He stated there would be an auction of their equipment and materials.  I do not know if this is completely true as there are several forms of bankruptcy. This could be a Chapter 11 reorganization BUT checking out their website is ominous as much of it is down.  If it is true, it is a sad day as they have been an important part of the hobby for a long, long time and many of you probably used them. I feel for the owners and staff and the hobby.

[John_S_in_Penna]

Can someone tell us more about Lebaron Bonney?

I've never used them, but think of them for high-quality

wool interiors, especially for Fords. 

Have they branched out into the more popular cars

of the 1950's and 1960's, including vinyl?  What else

do they make or offer?

 

Are they owned by a single person or family?

 

I went to their website to find out more, but as Steve

said above, much of it is shut down or inaccessible.

We can always use a good, capable, honest company

in this hobby.

Edited March 18, 2019 by John_S_in_Penna (see edit history)

[Bhigdog]

Sadly, my guess is this is a preview of coming attractions................Bob

[46 woodie]

John. LeBaron Bonny was purchased by a new owner and in talking to him at HERSHEY, he was really trying to make it work. I have used them for 3 Model A's, my '32 and my '46 Station wagon and was very happy with their interior kits. I hope if it is true that they are closing, there is another company that can offer interior kits for us. From what I understand is they were hit with several retirements and could not find the craftspeople that were required to do what we all expect in our interiors.

[Steve_Mack_CT]

Well, something is up.  Placed an order and it had some issues, no one has responded.  We are likely out a few bucks, which is obviously not someyhing I am happy about, but sad still...

[Restorer32]

I have been very worried about Lebaron Bonney for several years. Fewer products in stock. I assumed the end might be near a few weeks ago when I tried to order door cardboard and was told they no longer stock it. 

[jpage]

I think accessibility and cost of materials and shipping also has something to do with it. In talking with Restoration Specialties, where I used to work, Jeff told me that the door board and panel boards must be ordered in standard packaging now instead of by the piece and shipping a large board can cost almost $100. Shipping costs are getting way out of line ! Manufactures pricing had gone up considerably because of a decline in accessibility of original type materials and low volume sales! Couple all that with trying to find skilled workers, or even anyone who will actually show up for work today, and you have a recipe for failure! It's really sad, so many of our specialty businesses are going belly up and it won't be to far in the future that there will be no special services at all. 

[alsancle]

13 minutes ago, jpage said:

 Couple all that with trying to find skilled workers, or even anyone who will actually show up for work today, and you have a recipe for failure!

 

I know nothing about this particular situation,  but in general this is a tough problem across the board in the hobby.  Many of the very skilled workers are on the older side of things and when they retire I'm not sure there is anyone to replace them.

[Xander Wildeisen]

15 minutes ago, jpage said:

I think accessibility and cost of materials and shipping also has something to do with it. In talking with Restoration Specialties, where I used to work, Jeff told me that the door board and panel boards must be ordered in standard packaging now instead of by the piece and shipping a large board can cost almost $100. Shipping costs are getting way out of line ! Manufactures pricing had gone up considerably because of a decline in accessibility of original type materials and low volume sales! Couple all that with trying to find skilled workers, or even anyone who will actually show up for work today, and you have a recipe for failure! It's really sad, so many of our specialty businesses are going belly up and it won't be to far in the future that there will be no special services at all. 

Out here they sack businesses. Not losing skilled workers/shops. People are taking them out. Drink the Kool Aid. What a story.

[Steve_Mack_CT]

Not answering phones, emails and I have owners direct line which is also going unanswered.  They got us for a few hundred, and instead of a fully upholstered seat on new springs I received a partial kit that appears to have been packed by a third grader, probably so they could report as a completed order to close things out.

 

Glad it was not big dollars and hope no one here is in that situation..

Edited March 19, 2019 by Steve_Mack_CT (see edit history)

[Bhigdog]

1 hour ago, alsancle said:

Many of the very skilled workers are on the older side of things and when they retire I'm not sure there is anyone to replace them.

 

And why would they? The hobby will continue to contract as both the supply of interesting cars and those interested in them decline. A young person entering the "old car" trade today is tantamount to a young person learning to repair typewriters or linotype machines in the 70's................Bob

 

[Steve Moskowitz]

Bob, I don't see it your way.  Why?  The programs at McPherson, Alfred State, Penn Tech amongst others are filled with young students.  A lot of the shops I know have "interns" or apprentices from these schools or elsewhere.  I know a shop with very unique skills that are irreplaceable in brass cars and they has a young man working for them learning the trade. The Hershey Region alone has added $50,000 to help fund scholarships to those learning the trade. Do we all have a concern for the future?  Sure, but not a automatic death knell at least from my perspective and many others.  The future of the hobby still remains in our hands and it will die if we let it.  We do not intend for that to happen.

 

None of us know the reasons that LeBaron as apparently ceased to exist.  There can be many reasons not necessarily related to the volume of business at hand.  As I said, it is an absolute shame though, as they have served the hobby well for many years. 

[36 D2 Coupe]

Just talked to a friend who has an order hung up at L-B - part paid for and no response. They have his old seat material for patterns and at a minimum he wants THAT back. This does not look good at all. I hope that whatever is going on, they will release what is not part of the company inventory.

[BearsFan315]

we need to hear from Ted (chistech) he lives close by and deals with them a lot on pieces and parts... wonder if he has heard anything ?

 

also know they merged Hampton Coach into one company years back

 

know that many of the skilled workers there are retirement age, and no new skilled workers are interested in the skills ( no pc, internet, cyber security )

 

the kit for my 1929 came from there, complete interior and roof, Ted did the install  AWESOME WORK

Edited March 19, 2019 by BearsFan315 (see edit history)

[1937hd45]

I think it was right around 1968 that my Dad and Grandfather and I drove up to LeBaron Bonney to pick up the seats and top for the 1931 Roadster. I don't think they totaled $1,000. That is one car in one family in 51 years, great product, car is still a 20 footer, who do you know in your town that is restoring a Model A Ford today? Glad I was in the hobby in the "Golden Years" Bob 

[Bhigdog]

Simple demographics and supply and demand will determine the future of the hobby. The supply of interesting cars will slowly shrink through attrition and there really are no replacements. It's hard to see a market for a collectable Prius or almost any of todays production cars. From my observation point I see declining interest from todays youth in cars other than as a means of transportation. Ergo the ever shrinking future base of interested participants in the hobby. This will only be worsened by the changing  technology of todays cars and the almost disposable, "not serviceable" assembly type construction of newer vehicles.

I agree that the tide might be slowed by honest efforts and I'm not saying that things will happen over night.

There will likely always be a core old car hobby, albeit far smaller than todays, and there should always be the need for a few specialists that can make a living tending to the needs of the core group but the entire old car hobby must obey the laws of supply and demand.

I'm guessing if I needed parts for my linotype machine or have my old Royal type writer repaired there are still folks who could help but even they will have to dwindle down to a precious few.

I truly wish it weren't so but I'm afraid it is.............................Bob

 

 

[Steve_Mack_CT]

Hey, I am restoring a Model A Bob!  Or at least trying to!!😆😉

[Restorer32]

I don't know. I guess I just have a different perspective on the hobby/business. Lots of antique cars are coming on the market but I have yet to see anyone giving significant cars away. Most eventually find new owners,  perhaps at reduced prices. The folks who buy these cars presumably did not buy them to destroy them. Unless they intend to just squirrel away these cars they will eventually need service and/or restoration. I will say this again as I have in the past. Our customer base has gotten younger over the last few years with folks in their 40's and 50's committing to full restorations, usually of vehicles where there is no hope of ever recouping their costs. I think there might be a flowering of the hobby as more cars come on the market at more affordable prices. In any case, we're here for the long haul and hopefully there will be work for my 35 year old Son, the current owner of the biz,  well into the future. At the moment we are up to our ears in restoration work.

[Bhigdog]

As I said I'm talking a longer term decline. I don't think anyone will go out of business servicing the hobby over night ( LeB B excepted) or even soon. But it's hard to argue that the pool of collectable cars will increase rather than contract through attrition: fires, floods, neglect, accidents, sink holes, civil unrest etc etc etc. That coupled with the general loss of younger peoples appreciation for things automotive (when was the last time a kid pestered his Dad to drive him into town to see the new models being unveiled?) means fewer people left to collect cars or even be interested in them.

There should always, or nearly always, be room for a few niche players in the old car hobby. There are still, after all,  a few shops whose business is making wooden wagon wheels.

Evidently our Nations youth held a nation wide school walk out in protest of fossil fuels a few days ago. I caught a video of excited  young students holding banners and chanting in directed unison " HO! HO! HO! Carbon fuel has got to go". Reportedly many of their teachers gave them encouragement and class credit.

That does not auger well for "car guys"......................Bob

 

 

[edinmass]

The nature of how restorations are done will change, I think you will see smaller shops sub contracting out many parts of the restoration......which can be ok...or terrible, but cars will continue to need service and repair. Even if no new restorations are ever undertaken, the current finished cars will need craftsmen to keep them on the road.The price of the car my go up or down, but no one is going to start junking old cars due to lack of new owners........many people in the restoration industry have seen changes already. We certainly have. Still plenty of work, it's just different now. 

 

I can't wait to purchase my first Model J for 50K, maybe I'll buy two...........

Edited March 19, 2019 by edinmass (see edit history)

[edinmass]

As for L B and their current situation, I just called a close friend who is very familiar with them, and the people who were/are working there, he promised to make a few calls, and get back to me ASAP. I did ask him to inquire about people's patterns sent in and to see if there is any way to get them returned if possible. Not sure what we will get or not get for an answer, but I will let you know. Best, ED

 

First update.......no contact made, mutiple effort.........making another inquiry from a diffrent angle.

 

Different angle approach........a "insider" reported known problems and issues, and mentioned several new companies they bought out in the recent years past. As things have progressed and not gone well the company was offered for sale, and offered to the employees in some form or way. Apparently, nothing worked out, and the report of the filing on Friday wasn't known about or confirmed. Person said they weren't 'surprised" at the reports on line. 

 

One of the "back door contacts" left messages again in an effort to get any customer samples if at all possible.......a helpful hobbiest and industry guy who said he will help out if he is able......its wait and see time. Cross your fingers.

 

Local conformation, Chapter 7, which means the end. 

Edited March 19, 2019 by edinmass (see edit history)

[Bhigdog]

1 hour ago, edinmass said:

 

I can't wait to purchase my first Model J for 50K, maybe I'll buy two...........

 

Time will tell but just the opposite may happen. As the available pool of cars and interested collectors contracts the ratios of each to the other will affect  prices and availability. Throwing in the desirability of any particular segment or type of car will further confuse the condition of the hobby. Eventually an equilibrium of sorts will be reached with a much smaller core of hobbyists/collectors interested enough and wealthy enough to support a much smaller number of support staff.

Neither you or me will still be around to find out what the eventual shake out will be, so enjoy for now.

OTOH if we don't stop eating big juicy steaks and farting up a storm we all will be gone in 12 years when the world ends...............Bob

[CarNucopia]

4 hours ago, Bhigdog said:

From my observation point I see declining interest from todays youth in cars other than as a means of transportation. Ergo the ever shrinking future base of interested participants in the hobby. This will only be worsened by the changing  technology of todays cars and the almost disposable, "not serviceable" assembly type construction of newer vehicles.

 

 

 

I think your observation is more a function of where you go to participate in "the Hobby".  In addition to two prewar cars, I have three from the 90's that have antique plates. I go to a variety of events and see a ton of enthusiasts under 30. Thing is, they don't want to go to Hershey and search Hemmings. Instead, they go to Radwood and buy cars on Bring a Trailer. Tastes change over time.

[1912Staver]

In a way I see a parallel here with something as recently common as book stores, both new and used. Seemingly the younger generation doesn't read anymore, not books at least. Seems a real loss to me. It temporarily is a benefit to me as my local thrift stores are bulging with books at a dollar or two  each. But long term who knows ?  Is society's future really as superficial and vapid as media would suggest ?

 

Greg in Canada

[CarNucopia]

8 minutes ago, 1912Staver said:

In a way I see a parallel here with something as recently common as book stores, both new and used. Seemingly the younger generation doesn't read anymore, not books at least. Seems a real loss to me. It temporarily is a benefit to me as my local thrift stores are bulging with books at a dollar or two  each. But long term who knows ?  Is society's future really as superficial and vapid as media would suggest ?

 

Greg in Canada

 

That's actually not what's happening. Physical book sales are up and there has been a 35% increase in the number of independent books stores in the US. I'd wager the number of car enthusiasts has grown too, contrary to what many around here might say.

 

Book Sales are up this Year Over Last Year, and Physical Books are Thriving

[chistech]

I too have left phone messages and email messages to my contact and the owner with no reply. Over the last year there were many changes made due to the building they were located in being sold. The new building owner wanted a large increase in sq. footage rental. LB moved the office operations across the street and the physical operations to a much smaller adjoining building. The business was split from the classic car/restoration interiors and the EZ-Boy, not original, more modern type interiors with the EZ-Boy segment moving to ME and the original replacement interiors staying in Amesbury. I looked up bankruptcy filings in MA and it shows that they filed for chapter 7 so it looks like it's true. Not sure if there's any other companies making GM restoration interiors out there but there is now an opportunity for immediate business one would think. 

 

[SC38dls]

It’s the way of a lot of industries. I owned the 2nd largest circulation fulfillment service bureau in the Chicago metro area. We did the data management of the magazine databases for over 120 magazines and 4 million labels a month. With all the tech guys around you would think it would be easy to get programmers and tech guys/gals. No way. They didn’t want to be locked in to a special nitch industry. Plus the fact magazines were hiring tech people and tried to run things under windows or some other generic program. Out of those 120 magazines there are less than 20 still in business. Look at restoration houses they all have in-house upholstery departments and the internet takes another big part of the business off shore.  How many cars have cheap interiors because they are just daily drivers. I know I could not justify the $8000+ estimate to redo the interior of my 38 Studebaker as it is not a show car. It’s just a sign of the times that are always changing. 

Dave S 

[Joe in Canada]

They could also be closing because of poor management. I know a mid size manufacturer up here where the younger took over the business and closed the doors after a few year. They held an auction before going into receivership. Spent the money on themselves leaving nothing for updating until it was too late. 

[Guest]

Joe raises the main reason companies go out of business.  I worked in a GM dealership and believed that GM must know what they were doing look at the market share they HAD.   Parts department had 12 staff, 125,000 inventory that was turned over twice a year.  Average that out and gross was 20,333 per employee.  I was lent to the service manager to work, one summer, in his small  rural bearing supply company.  He had 3 staff, 50,000 stock that was turned over every month.  That averages out to 200,000 per staff member.  His sales were not the value of his stock every month, they were a complete renewal of the stock.  If it did not sell in 30 days and he could not return it he threw it out or gave it away as he said he needed the space for something that would sell.  His inventory was almost entirely different every season of the year.  When he retired the local Bank Manager bought the lucrative business and was bankrupt in two years.  It is all about managing overhead and having more income than outgo.

 

[plymouthcranbrook]

I have read that many small Family businesses fail in the third generation. The first builds the business, the second see's how hard the first worked to build the business and works hard to keep it going. The third never having seen the work needed to make a business a success and usually having the golden spoon due to the parents not wanting their young to lack anything let it fail because they are unwilling to put in the work need to keep it going.

[alsancle]

8 hours ago, plymouthcranbrook said:

I have read that many small Family businesses fail in the third generation.

 

You may have heard the old proverb, “Shirtsleeves to shirtsleeves in three generations.” In Japan, the expression goes, “Rice paddies to rice paddies in three generations.” The Scottish say “The father buys, the son builds, the grandchild sells, and his son begs.” In China, “Wealth never survives three generations.”

 

https://familylinevideo.com/three-generations-family-legacy-videos/

 

My observation of the same phenomenon in the U.S.A is pretty close.   The second generation sees the original guy working his a** off and gets it to a certain extent.   But the grand kids almost never do and the whole thing goes down the drain.  Also,  the hand offs may not be ideal.  For example,  I have a wealthy friend who sent his kid off to work in the same industry but nothing to do with him.  Eventually the son will come back and run the family business,  but the training happened elsewhere.    If you appoint your kid VP right out of College,  chances of failure are pretty high.

[John_S_in_Penna]

8 hours ago, plymouthcranbrook said:

I have read that many small Family businesses fail in the third generation.

 

An interesting hypothesis;  but isn't Lebaron Bonney

a company that was SOLD to new owners, someone said?

If so, the family third-generational topic would not apply.

 

Edited March 20, 2019 by John_S_in_Penna (see edit history)

[Steve_Mack_CT]

Correct.  I understand the company has actually changed owners a couple of times since i'ts founding.  I know more about LB history now than about the history of some of my relatives, but that won't get my order filled properly or get me my money back. 

The good news for early Ford folk is another vendor has quickly earned a reputation for quality and service.  He was well on his way before this.  My mistake was buying a name and not being open minded enough to listen to the collective experience of other A people.  Another lesson learned!!

 

Edited March 20, 2019 by Steve_Mack_CT (see edit history)

[Hupp36]

In  2010 the  Hupp club  had  a  week  tour in  N.H.  We  went to  Le baron  Bonney  and  had  a  great  time  on  a plant  tour.  I  am amateur upholsterer doing my  own  cars and  some  close  friends I  was  really pleased to see  how  the  pro's  did it. We  had  about  20  Hupps in the  parking  lot  and  the  employee's and  customers enjoyed seeing so  many  Hupmobiles in one spot.  I  restored a 1929 Hupp model  A and  installed 1931 Hupp Model  S  window risers and  bought the  inside hardware at  Lebaron Bonney. Really going  to  miss them.

[Dennis Hagen]

I purchased the interior for my Buick Super convert from Autocrafters which I believe was taker over by LB.

They did a great job but are gone. I think age of a skilled work force is an issue.

[Bloo]

This was just posted on the VCCA Forums:

 

https://vccachat.org/ubbthreads.php/topics/422850/hampton-coach-lebaron-bonney-is-gone.html#Post422850

 

Hi Guys. I am David, who many of you have spoken to at LBB over the past several years. The rumor mill is true, they are done, Gone, kaput. First, I left the Company in September 2018, because they weren’t getting the work out. They also were not ordering what they needed to produce things. Long story short, Friday the 15th they closed for good. They owe a lot of people. I don’t know how many Chevy Guys they owe, but it’s a lot. I will tell all that I know, so if you contact me with a number, I’ll call you. It’s a sad, sad deal, because the people who made this stuff were Special. For a company to buy them, at auction, means not much without the expertise to make all the patterns work. I’m bummed for the Industry, and for all who are caught in the middle. In my opinion, they were acting fraudulently for a long time. Taking deposits, in many cases 100%, and then not purchasing the Good to make. They were making purchase orders, so when I looked it appeared things were ordered. Then I found out that the PO’s were printed, but not Executed. No orders placed. Lying to both, Cam, and I everyday. Customers would inquire, I would ask on their behalf and be told “ O about 3 weeks”, or something like that. September 15, 2018 I demanded Scott Holbrook prove to me he ordered Leather for important orders. We argued, and he finally said “David, do you want to get paid? I said (not at the risk of the company being fraudulent!” That didn’t go over so well. He told me to go home and come back tomorrow. Well, this led to Scott Holbrook having to fire me, or show me the proof. I got fired. As I said I would be happy to help anyone I can especially the Chevy guys, good luck to you all stuck in the middle!

 

 

Edited March 20, 2019 by Bloo (see edit history)

[Steve_Mack_CT]

Thd atty representing LB is posted on Fordbarn today.  I am going to take a crack at putting in a claim but not expecting much.

 

Agree with all others who place no blame on original owners or craftspeople involved.  But I sure woulx like to see the fellow who took my order at Hershey again..

[1937hd45]

Quote

 

As I remember things LeBaron Bonney started with Model A Fords, then expanded to Ford V8 upholstery and tops. At some time they bought out Hampton Coach a Chevrolet upholstery business. I'll never totally understand the expand or die business operation theory, but trying to be a one stop upholstery depot for all automobiles looks like it didn't work out. Sorry for all the craftspeople effected and customers left high and dry. Bob 

[plymouthcranbrook]

4 hours ago, John_S_in_Penna said:

 

An interesting hypothesis;  but isn't Lebaron Bonney

a company that was SOLD to new owners, someone said?

If so, the family third-generational topic would not apply.

 

I suppose i meant more of a generalization as opposed to being specific to this thread.. My fault  Sorry

[swoff]

On 3/18/2019 at 5:00 PM, Steve Moskowitz said:

I do not like rumors but I had an email from a former employee of this company that they filed for bankruptcy on Friday.  He stated there would be an auction of their equipment and materials.  I do not know if this is completely true as there are several forms of bankruptcy. This could be a Chapter 11 reorganization BUT checking out their website is ominous as much of it is down.  If it is true, it is a sad day as they have been an important part of the hobby for a long, long time and many of you probably used them. I feel for the owners and staff and the hobby.

 

https://www.inforuptcy.com/filings/m...bonney-company

 

Originally Posted by Cool Hand Lurker Debtor LeBaron Bonney Company 6 Chestnut Street Amesbury, MA 01913 Tax ID / EIN: 23-2973513 represented by Joshua A. Burnett Kitaeff & Associates, P.C. 65A Flagship Drive North Andover, MA 01845 978-687-1818 Fax : 978-258-1967 Email: attorneykitaeff@aol.com

The Federal Court filing ID is 19-10586

...just off the phone with Kitaeff office and BR Chap 7 total liquidation was filed this morning..There is a creditor's list ...I expect that I will get my material, patterns and other things returned by the end of 2020...In the meantime we have lost a venerable institution...the knowledge is irreplaceable and many employees who over the years have become good and close friends...I understand they were caught flatfooted...
If you had things there...you will get a notice from the Federal BR Trustee who is Joe Butler another attorney in Amesbury...if you do not hear anything in by early next week...call the attorney's office above and ask Susan if you are on the list.

Through a round about way, I understand that the staff were packing things to return to the Owners when Scott Holbrook, the owner of LB came in and told them to stop and go home.
My suspicion is that the Holbrook's were in way over their means...
Perhaps someone will buy the business in tact?
The distribution of materials was one of their main business parts and I don't know who will pick that up.