Trulyvintage Posted March 12, 2019 Share Posted March 12, 2019 (edited) I was contacted last week to transport this car by a prospective buyer who declined purchase today. This car is from the West Texas Collection of Mr. Karl Binner who passed away around (20) years ago - perhaps longer. It does not shows up in the Packard Registry. Eight cylinder - double rear continental kit. This car has been out of the Public Eye for at least (15) years. Anyone know this car ? Jim Edited March 13, 2019 by Trulyvintage (see edit history) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trulyvintage Posted March 13, 2019 Author Share Posted March 13, 2019 205619A on top of frame Drivers side by firewall Jim Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ozstatman Posted March 13, 2019 Share Posted March 13, 2019 (edited) Engine number 202921 is well within the range of engine numbers(200001 -> 208428) for 1924 1st Series Single Eights(136's & 143's). For an explanation of the FA suffix, see this link. It's the same car! Edited March 13, 2019 by Ozstatman (see edit history) 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trulyvintage Posted March 13, 2019 Author Share Posted March 13, 2019 Thanks to comments left on FB This appears to be a 1924 Single 8 Sport Model Jim Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trulyvintage Posted March 13, 2019 Author Share Posted March 13, 2019 (edited) Touring Badges & Windshield Decal Chances are - anyone who would of known this car is dead unless they were a child. It appears to have been originally sold either to someone in Portland, Oregon or Portland, Maine. It appears to have been on Texas Tours back in the 1950’s. Jim Edited March 13, 2019 by Trulyvintage (see edit history) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1912Staver Posted March 13, 2019 Share Posted March 13, 2019 Another of the rare sport models, a fine car. Your customer declined purchase ? Looks like a great opportunity to me. Greg in Canada 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trulyvintage Posted March 13, 2019 Author Share Posted March 13, 2019 Greg, I am a storyteller in a digital age. Charles Kuralt In 60 second bits ( usually ). I tell stories from the road - transport pays the way. I don’t buy & sell - I help turn the wheel. If I have an opportunity to help - I do. I met Jesse & his brother Boo Boo today - spent the better part of the afternoon at their shop - made new friends. It started out a bad Day. It ended as another great adventure. (12) years on the road & I still get excited when I lay eyes on great cars .... Jim 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trimacar Posted March 13, 2019 Share Posted March 13, 2019 So, did Scott from Troy, New York, end up with car? Apparently it was for sale in 2015. I never have quite understood the covering up of license plates, has anyone ever really been "hunted down" due to a picture of them? If one had access to those records, it would seem the other numbers posted could trace owner too... 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trulyvintage Posted March 13, 2019 Author Share Posted March 13, 2019 It is for sale now. I am helping the Seller research it. Jim Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt Harwood Posted March 13, 2019 Share Posted March 13, 2019 11 minutes ago, trimacar said: So, did Scott from Troy, New York, end up with car? Apparently it was for sale in 2015. I never have quite understood the covering up of license plates, has anyone ever really been "hunted down" due to a picture of them? If one had access to those records, it would seem the other numbers posted could trace owner too... It's one of those things where everyone thinks it is a privacy issue but totally isn't. Nobody can track you by your license plate beyond knowing what state the car might be in (might) because it says in what state the plate was issued right there on the plate. Only law enforcement has access to the license plate database and abusing it is a punishable offense. Nobody will track you down by a license plate, the IRS won't kick in your door for owning a nice car, nobody is going to find out where you live from a photo of a license plate and steal your car. It's ridiculous. Besides, don't they realize that they're driving around--in public no less!--with their license plates visible to just anyone? Egad! PS: Not to freak anyone out, but did you know your bank account number is RIGHT THERE ON THE CHECK YOU JUST GAVE THAT CLERK AT THE GROCERY STORE! RIGHT THERE! IN PLAIN SIGHT! YOUR BANK ACCOUNT NUMBER! The horror. The horror. 7 1 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
edinmass Posted March 13, 2019 Share Posted March 13, 2019 Matt........I choose to worry about rapid climate change ending the world in the next twelve years..............I'm only getting ten hours of sleep at night because of it..........."I can't take it anymore!" 2 1 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
auburnseeker Posted March 13, 2019 Share Posted March 13, 2019 So if it's for sale what's the price? People seem as leery to post prices as they are to have their license plate seen. Yet it's most often the very first thing a buyer, even a rich one that's foolish with their money (not like any of the rich people i have ever met, they are rich for a reason and squandering money wasn't one of them) will want to know. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
auburnseeker Posted March 13, 2019 Share Posted March 13, 2019 1 minute ago, edinmass said: I choose to worry about rapid climate change ending the world in the next twelve years All I'm worried about is freezing to death. I don't think it will ever get hot enough in this life to burn up. (the afterlife, I'm not so sure about) 2 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
autoluke Posted March 13, 2019 Share Posted March 13, 2019 Ed Let me agree that the Gore climate change alarm is indeed genuine.. Local caterpillars are shedding their fur coats, and robins seem to be panting. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
auburnseeker Posted March 13, 2019 Share Posted March 13, 2019 49 minutes ago, autoluke said: Ed Let me agree that the Gore climate change alarm is indeed genuine.. Local caterpillars are shedding their fur coats, and robins seem to be panting. Boy where do you live? Any houses with a big garage next door for sale? Low taxes wouldn't hurt either. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1912Staver Posted March 13, 2019 Share Posted March 13, 2019 2 hours ago, auburnseeker said: So if it's for sale what's the price? People seem as leery to post prices as they are to have their license plate seen. Yet it's most often the very first thing a buyer, even a rich one that's foolish with their money (not like any of the rich people i have ever met, they are rich for a reason and squandering money wasn't one of them) will want to know. I am also curious about the price however Jim { poster of this thread} is not the owner. Possibly he can direct us to where it is advertised if it is indeed advertised. Unfortunately there is no possibility of me affording a Packard like this however we all have dreams. These cars have always been prominent on my top 10 list. Greg in Canada Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trimacar Posted March 13, 2019 Share Posted March 13, 2019 (edited) One of my best friends, now gone, was a multi millionaire with a collection of over 50 Full Classics. He was NEVER loose with his money, he would not overpay for a car, and he could tell you to the penny, from his record keeping, how much money he had invested in each car, including any work done, maintenance, so forth. Matt, I'm glad to see you bring up the check thing, routing number and account number right there, as you say, yet people are "protective" of the information.....funny... Edited March 13, 2019 by trimacar (see edit history) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
edinmass Posted March 13, 2019 Share Posted March 13, 2019 2 hours ago, trimacar said: He was NEVER lose with his money, he would not overpay for a car, and he could tell you to the penny, from his record keeping, how much money he had invested in each car, including any work done, maintenance, so forth. If I added up all my time, effort, and out of pocket expense I have spent on cars, trucks, trailers, boats, motorcycles, and all the other assorted toys............I'm sure I would pass out and be sick when I came to. That said, I have had more fun and joy in the hobby for almost fifty years than any reasonable person could ever expect. In the end, I'm sure the money was spent very well..........If I ever make it to the old age home and still have all my faculties I'll be rocking in a chair with a smile on my face calling the nurse over to change my depends. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spinneyhill Posted March 13, 2019 Share Posted March 13, 2019 If you sell anything on line, you send the purchaser your bank account number! BTW, what is a cheque? In this country, anybody who issues warrants of fitness (safety check stickers) has access to the motor reg. database. They put the data into it. It is easy to get friendly with someone and get access. One can also ask for details and pay a fee at a post office. I don't think they will tell you the owner's name and address any more though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted March 13, 2019 Share Posted March 13, 2019 I wish i could cover up my license plate when I go browsing for a new car. My experience with a local dealership was merely walking through the showroom and then being overwhelmed with phone calls from a salesman. It appears he had a friend at Motor Vehicles who would run a plate for him. I complained to management and eventually all the way to the top man (Jimmy Pattison). They all said he was just doing the job he was hired for. My next visit was to the Registrar of Motor Vehicles. The net result was a lady at motor vehicles lost her job and a salesman was charged by the local police. Of course if i drive MY Pontiac rather than my wife's Sonata everybody knows who I am and where I've been anyway. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
old car fan Posted March 13, 2019 Share Posted March 13, 2019 I think it would look great in or corral,,on his way home Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trimacar Posted March 13, 2019 Share Posted March 13, 2019 2 hours ago, edinmass said: If I added up all my time, effort, and out of pocket expense I have spent on cars, trucks, trailers, boats, motorcycles, and all the other assorted toys............I'm sure I would pass out and be sick when I came to. That said, I have had more fun and joy in the hobby for almost fifty years than any reasonable person could ever expect. In the end, I'm sure the money was spent very well..........If I ever make it to the old age home and still have all my faculties I'll be rocking in a chair with a smile on my face calling the nurse over to change my depends. Ed, you know me, I agree 100%.... I've been fortunate to have a little money to put into the hobby, but the friends and personal contacts and the places I've been...wow, beyond anything one could purchase....those never show up on your net worth, but they show up on your personal worth, and the memories are beyond compare... 3 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John_Mereness Posted March 13, 2019 Share Posted March 13, 2019 Sweet Packard !!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trimacar Posted March 13, 2019 Share Posted March 13, 2019 (edited) From recent private sales I've seen, the early Packard eights get respect, but not big bucks. I'd put that car in the "damifino because I didn't realize it was a special car price" range. If condition warrants, possibly slightly higher. There seems to be a 1928 443 phaeton for sale recently, which I thought was a much more significant car in Packard history, as it started the form over function styling, rather than form follows function.... Edited March 14, 2019 by trimacar didn't know what I was talking about (see edit history) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
West Peterson Posted March 14, 2019 Share Posted March 14, 2019 David The Sport model predates the 1928 models in as far as form over function. This is a unique and extremely rare car, which actually is the predecessor to the Speedster series that began in 1929. The car is about six inches lower and six inches narrower than any of the other Packard phaetons of the time period 1923-26. If it were to be painted properly, it would be a much more striking automobile. See story in the January/February 2019 issue of Antique Automobile. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trulyvintage Posted March 14, 2019 Author Share Posted March 14, 2019 (edited) 5 minutes ago, West Peterson said: David The Sport model predates the 1928 models in as far as form over function. This is a unique and extremely rare car, which actually is the predecessor to the Speedster series that began in 1929. The car is about six inches lower and six inches narrower than any of the other Packard phaetons of the time period 1923-26. If it were to be painted properly, it would be a much more striking automobile. See story in the January/February 2019 issue of Antique Automobile. West, Thank You for posting on my Facebook page and thank you for bringing the discussion back on topic here. Did you get a chance to watch the walk around video on Facebook ? Jim Edited March 14, 2019 by Trulyvintage (see edit history) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
A. Ballard 35R Posted March 14, 2019 Share Posted March 14, 2019 I believe the car is known to one or more of the Packard roster keepers who will hopefully be posting soon. Has a price been given ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trulyvintage Posted March 14, 2019 Author Share Posted March 14, 2019 Hopefully the history of the car can be fully researched. If someone personally knew the previous owner(s) & the car - it would be nice to hear from them. Jim Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
auburnseeker Posted March 14, 2019 Share Posted March 14, 2019 So what's the price? We could have 100 posts with guesses and should be's and comparisons of similar but not really the same car, but there is a firm number that will own it known by the owner. Shouldn't be such a mystery as to what it is. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trimacar Posted March 14, 2019 Share Posted March 14, 2019 West, I did not know the history of the car, thought it was just a "normal" Packard eight of the time. I withdraw my comments on value, thanks for update! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trulyvintage Posted March 14, 2019 Author Share Posted March 14, 2019 (edited) Mr Karl Binner apparently hosted at least one AACA Texas Tour. Again - probably anyone who toured with him of a contemporary age has most likely also passed away .... Jim Edited March 14, 2019 by Trulyvintage (see edit history) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DavidMc Posted March 14, 2019 Share Posted March 14, 2019 West, referring to your comments above: The car is about six inches lower and six inches narrower than any of the other Packard phaetons of the time period 1923-26. The Sport is actually 2" lower than the other open models, other differences are the windshield is further back, the rear of the car is further forward and the body is narrower. This all improved the proportions by giving it a long hood short body look . It was sold as a 4 passenger car as opposed to the 5 passenger Touring. The bodies of the 126 " wheelbase, six cylinder and the 136" wheelbase, eight cylinder are identical from the front of the cowl back, the body difference between the 136 Sport and the 126 Sport are are all in the length of the hood. The 126 Sport has a higher or taller ratio final drive compared to the 5 or 7 passenger 6 cylinder open cars but was otherwise mechanically identical . I don't know if the 136 Sport differed mechanically from the other 136 or 143 cars. Attached are copies of further information about the 136 and 236 Sport . 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trulyvintage Posted March 15, 2019 Author Share Posted March 15, 2019 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trulyvintage Posted March 15, 2019 Author Share Posted March 15, 2019 I reached out to The National Packard Museum In Ohio yesterday for any records they might have on this car. I have not heard back yet. Interesting front side glass deflectors ? I assume the rear passenger windshield ? and folding side windows are original. The rear passenger window assembly had ” safety glass “ markings on the (3) pieces. Jim Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trimacar Posted March 15, 2019 Share Posted March 15, 2019 Car has very nice and aggressive lines for that time period....long hood, add the cowl, wow....very attractive... 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trulyvintage Posted March 15, 2019 Author Share Posted March 15, 2019 I had an interesting conversation with my friend Wayland in Oregon. This Packard has been repainted - no doubt about that .... He told me that some car dealers back in the early years would customize a car to make a sale - including painting it a custom color for a customer in order to make a sale. I went to the Packard Dealer Registry and found only (4) dealers listed for the Portland, Oregon area. Assuming this Packard was custom ordered with rear windshield - not a far stretch to imagine a custom color might have been applied at the Dealership or Agency that took the order. I don’t imagine a lot of 1924 Packard Sport Single 8 cars were sold out of Portland. This car would have definitely stood out. Here is an old photo of one of the Portland Agencies or Dealerships. Jim Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rusty12 Posted March 15, 2019 Share Posted March 15, 2019 (edited) So, how much is the car? It has been for sale at least once, so the price should not be a mystery. Edited March 15, 2019 by rusty12 (see edit history) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
autoluke Posted March 15, 2019 Share Posted March 15, 2019 Questions still remain.. Where is it located ? What is the price ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt Harwood Posted March 15, 2019 Share Posted March 15, 2019 Unlikely that's 1920s paint, dealer-applied or otherwise. Looks like a '60s or early '70s "freshening" restoration, which would explain why it looks aged but not correct. I love the car, it is very much like the charcoal gray one that I was hoping someone knew of in the "missing Classics" thread. Fresh paint in a period-correct color would add a great deal of value, probably more than the cost of a paint job. Of course, at that point the slippery slope argument comes into play and it becomes difficult to figure out the path forward without going upside-down. That is a great-looking car. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trulyvintage Posted March 15, 2019 Author Share Posted March 15, 2019 (edited) I am not suggesting the paint is original - it likely is not. My point is - the color choice might be if the original owner ordered that color from the Agency or Dealer. Jim Edited March 17, 2019 by Trulyvintage (see edit history) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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