Buying out of state

[RivVrgn]

I am car shopping now and it seems nothing is close to me. How do you purchase a car from an individual out of state hundred of miles away? With smart phones now you can do a walk around and discuss things but still I’m not wiring 20k to someone I don’t really know with no way to track it. Do shippers get involved with the money exchange ( seems like a liability they would not want ) or is there a broker. Never done it before, I was always able to find something close. Thanks

[joe_padavano]

4 minutes ago, RivVrgn said:

I am car shopping now and it seems nothing is close to me. How do you purchase a car from an individual out of state hundred of miles away? With smart phones now you can do a walk around and discuss things but still I’m not wiring 20k to someone I don’t really know with no way to track it. Do shippers get involved with the money exchange ( seems like a liability they would not want ) or is there a broker. Never done it before, I was always able to find something close. Thanks

 

I've bought seven cars from out of state in the last decade.  Most of those have been from the desert southwest because I refuse to deal with rust anymore. It definitely requires building trust with the seller.  In every case, I've sent money orders or used electronic means (yes, even PayPal) to pay before delivery.  My most expensive purchase was $8000, so not $20K. In all cases, I got extensive photographic coverage of the car before sending money. I spent a lot of time talking to the sellers. You can get a feel.  Only one time have I been disappointed (and that was a $2900 car). For $20K, buy a plane ticket.

[George Smolinski]

I’ve bought long distance. If the seller is willing, I send a cashier check or Postal money orders. As soon as he gets the payment, he overnights the signed title to me. I will wait 2 weeks after he gets the payment to allow time for the check or m.o. to clear. By then the transaction should be complete so a hauler can pick the car up & deliver it to me. I don’t do wire transfers because then there are bank account numbers involved - a high security risk IMO.

[1937hd45]

It depends on what that $20,000. is going to buy. Bob

[39BuickEight]

I bought a cheap part car out of state without putting my eyes and hands on it, but also after communicating with the seller for months.  If I was spending $20,000, I would have made a trip to see it myself first.  

[Buffalowed Bill]

Being a little smug when I say virtually all of my cars are local. If you don't know why western cars are better, you need to find out. If you are looking for quality you may need to travel to get it. At any rate you need to know what the history of the car is. Ask specific questions, if answers are not forthcoming walk away.

Edited March 11, 2019 by Buffalowed Bill (see edit history)

[joe_padavano]

1 hour ago, Buffalowed Bill said:

Being a little smug when I say virtually all of my cars are local.

 

I'm guessing you don't live in the northeast. 😉

[Pilgrim65]

In the Uk ,friend and I bought cars from states , 

firstly contacted a local appraiser ,who sent report and video , deposit by pay pal or transfer on proof of title  , balance on collection .

80 % success , one car missing bits under rocker cover  , but seller was a genuine guy and sent replacements so now 100% 

so overall pretty good experience. 

Edited March 11, 2019 by Pilgrim65 (see edit history)

[zepher]

Is there someone you trust that is fairly local to where the car is?

If so, have them go down and take a look at the car to make sure it really is what is being represented.

Have you contacted any owner's groups for the Marque to see if they could provide any history on the car?

I would fly/drive out and see the car myself unless you can find a trusted party to really go over the car for you.

 

[Matt Harwood]

A plane ticket is cheap insurance against getting ripped off. If you buy a car sight-unseen and it shows up wrong, you have only yourself to blame. You will wish--every single time you look at the car--that you had spent the $500 to just go see it yourself before you spent the money. If the car is right, make your deal on the spot, give the guy a significant deposit ($1000), have him sign a receipt that he received the money, and then wire the balance (or send a check or whatever the two of you agree to do), and then send a truck to pick up the car once he's been paid. If you personally spend time with him, it is far less likely that he will pull a fast one on you. Trust is a two-way street so building that rapport with a seller is important.

Nothing will replace going to look at it with your own two eyes. Either you will save yourself a $20,000 nightmare or you'll build trust with a seller whose car you want to buy and you'll get exactly what you expected. There is no downside to a personal visit other than the relatively minor cost in time and money to do it. On the other hand, there can be a massive downside to not doing a personal visit.

 

It's the only way to be sure.

 

 

Edited March 11, 2019 by Matt Harwood (see edit history)

[John_S_in_Penna]

I agree wholeheartedly that a personal visit to

inspect a car is the best way to go.

 

A seller may be perfectly honest, but words might have

differing meanings for each of you.  "The paint is very good,"

he may say honestly.  Your definition of "very good" and his

may be different.

 

I once went to look at a scarce pre-war car.  The seller was known

to people in the marque club, and he had done the restoration

work himself.  It was the worst restoration I had ever seen!

The cloth top was lumpy, the wheels had been powder-coated

over rust pits, the paint wasn't smooth.  Condition #4 in the

Old Cars Price Guide can be a "very poor amateur restoration,"

and that's what it was.  Overall pictures of the car from 20 feet

away didn't tell the story.  The plane ticket I bought was the best

buy I ever made, and needless to say, I didn't buy the car!

 

 

 

Edited March 11, 2019 by John_S_in_Penna (see edit history)

[RivVrgn]

Probably won’t be 20 probably around 10 to 13. I’ve had some people do a walk around with there phone with FaceTime..that way tell them look there, look at that, it helps a lot. I guess when it comes to the money part just trust my gut. Appreciate the input though.

[1937hd45]

1 hour ago, John_S_in_Penna said:

I agree wholeheartedly that a personal visit to

inspect a car is the best way to go.

 

A seller may be perfectly honest, but words might have

differing meanings for each of you.  "The paint is very good,"

he may say honestly.  Your definition of "very good" and his

may be different.

 

  The plane ticket I bought was the best

buy I ever made, and needless to say, I didn't buy the car!

 

 

 

That looks like it was worth two plane tickets. Easily $5,000.00 make right, wheels look horrible. Bob 

[Matt Harwood]

8 minutes ago, 1937hd45 said:

That looks like it was worth two plane tickets. Easily $5,000.00 make right, wheels look horrible. Bob 

 

Just the lug nuts would make me suspect the entire car was a POS.

[auburnseeker]

Good photos up front will save alot of time right from the get go.  If they can't provide the photos you want,  walk away.  Most people can.  Once you learn to read photos,  (those few things I would have noticed right off the bat.  Close ups are essential)  and truly analyze them,  the chance of getting ripped off is much slimmer if you buy it sight unseen. I bought a couple of cars sight unseen long distance.  40G and 61G.  I was happy with both cars.  You need realistic expectations as well.  If you are buying a car for 20G that sells all day long for 30G  then immediately the radar should be going off and extra analyzing should be necessary.  

[Trulyvintage]

Trust ....

 

Establish it with a telephone conversation.

 

 Verify vehicle condition with an independent inspection - images - videos as needed.

 

Fly out or drive out with a trailer - pay cash in person - drive or trailer home.

 

If you can’t do that - pay in full with bank wire transfer - hire someone

that you can talk to directly who drives the truck pulling the trailer

hauling your vehicle.

 

Give no advance payment or credit card information for hauling.

 

Hauler does not act as Courier for payment or Conveyer of ownership

documents.

 

Good Luck

 

 

Jim

Edited March 12, 2019 by Trulyvintage (see edit history)

[padgett]

Not a problem since central Florida cars are generally rust free and there are stiff "import fees" if you buy a car that does not have a Florida title.

 

Southwest cars you have to deal with sun damage, probably the best climate is the Pacific northwest not too close to the coast.

[hidden_hunter]

I bought my car out of country, and factored in a worst case with my offer (which pretty much happened)

[plymouthcranbrook]

Well, I went and inspected a car for another member here about 5 years ago. I am not an appraiser or professional of any kind but do know enough about cars especially the brand I looked at to give an informed opinion.  The Member here bought the car(don't know the cost) but told me later that he was very satisfied with it. So depending on your level of trust asking for someone here to look for you might be an idea.

[JACK M]

15 hours ago, plymouthcranbrook said:

Well, I went and inspected a car for another member here about 5 years ago. I am not an appraiser or professional of any kind but do know enough about cars especially the brand I looked at to give an informed opinion.  The Member here bought the car(don't know the cost) but told me later that he was very satisfied with it. So depending on your level of trust asking for someone here to look for you might be an idea.

 

Yup, That's a fun car and I was very happy to have someone to take a look at it.

I am always available to do the same here in the NW, We have a kind of a brotherhood here on this forum.

On the other hand, I very much like to fly and drive. There is something about the journey. Pack up a few tools and grab your b**ls and go for it.

And since I am one that buys high and sells low I am getting the most fun for my money out of this hobby.   

 

[John_Mereness]

I went out to look at a 1958 Buick Roadmaster for a friend and told him no.  He replied that the car was more rare via being a relatively rust free, complete, driving example.  He bought it and then I arranged to have it flat-beaded to my mechanic  -  I insisted he take it to my mechanic before driving it 5 states.  And, the mechanic changed the fluids and spent some time aligning all the pulleys on the front of the engine, tuned it up, and ... The car made it almost home but lost enough transmission fluid to start slipping a little (he refilled at a truck stop all be it that made him an hour late for dinner).  Well long story made longer, he drives it every day and loves it - it has been a fabulous car.   My point is to make sure the person looking at the car is on the "same page" as the person buying. 

[Fleetwood Meadow]

When I bought my Cadillac it was 575 miles away. I sent $500 through PayPal and agreed that when I got there, if I was still satisfied with the car, I would give him the remaining balance. If he wouldn’t agree to that I was not going to do business with him. 

[Joe in Canada]

On ‎3‎/‎11‎/‎2019 at 4:18 PM, Pilgrim65 said:

firstly contacted a local appraiser

Can you trust an appraiser if it is a very good price? An appraiser looked at a Jag in California and gave a bad report on it saying it was not worth the price. It was later found on line for sale again by the appraiser that gave the bad report on it.

Edited March 17, 2019 by Joe in Canada (see edit history)

[Matt Harwood]

49 minutes ago, Joe in Canada said:

Can you trust an appraiser if it is a very good price? An appraiser looked at a Jag in California and gave a bad report on it saying it was not worth the price. It was later found on line for sale again by the appraiser that gave the bad report on it.

 

Paying someone to go look at the car for you is by no means a guarantee of success. Professional inspectors are only "professional" in the sense that they're getting paid and "inspectors" only in the sense that they look at the car.

 

Obviously I've had many, many "appraisers" and "inspectors" to my shop and I can count on three fingers the number of them I felt knew what they were doing. They don't do any of the things you want/expect/hope they will do, not ever. They aren't doing compression tests, leakdown tests, testing the oil, or anything like that. They come, they look at the car, they start it, they listen to it, they take pictures of every little scratch they can find, and sometimes they ride with me while I drive it. That's more or less it. Few know how to spot botched bodywork and I usually point out issues on the undercarriage because they don't have any idea what to look at.

 

At least one of the big "appraisal" companies (with initials AA and the letter that comes after F) is specifically designed to remove money from your wallet without helping you buy a car. Their own appraiser told me they are instructed to go extra hard on the cars and that "the boss/owner doesn't want people buying the cars they inspect." Think about it--they've got your $500, they crap all over the car so you don't buy it and won't hold them responsible for anything they might have missed, and they look like heroes so you'll use them again next time. Get it? Total scam.

 

I've had professional inspectors in my shop who do it part-time to pick up some cash. A taxi cab dispatcher, an appliance repair man, a college student, a high school shop teacher, a retired cop, an insurance adjuster, a retired accountant, a guy who worked at a rental car company, and a bunch of others. Conspicuously absent? A guy who knows about collector cars. One kid walked in to examine this car:

 

 

His very first comment? "Wow, I didn't know they made orange Mustangs!" Are you friggin' kidding me?!?

 

Most of them take a class at the Holiday Inn on a Saturday afternoon, they get "certified" by some company or another to be one of their "inspectors" and then they go out and do these half-assed inspections. Most of the time it involves filling out a form and taking some photos. In the case of AA[blank], they send someone out but the guy who actually does the "appraisal" is the guy who owns the company (and who doesn't want you buying the car). For example, they were hired to look at this car:

 

 

The report to the buyer was that the car was a rust bucket and needed a total restoration that would cost "at least $150,000." Most inspectors will ask to see the title to make sure it's viable, and I'll show it to them, but AA[redacted] took a photo of it when I wasn't looking and sent it to the buyer, who promptly started calling everyone in the country with the owner's last name trying to negotiate a better deal and cut me out of the loop. In this business, both of those are what we call "a dick move." AA[redacted] is merely the biggest and worst offender, but their criminality is matched by incompetence at other levels by other companies. 

 

(It might be worth noting that the '34 Ford up there was so rusty and crappy that I desperately regret selling it and wish I had kept it for myself.)

 

Any car you're interested in buying, if you can't afford to get burned, go see it yourself. Period. It costs about the same as an inspection and you are MUCH smarter than anyone you will pay to go look at the car. Inspections are often a ripoff. Granted, you might think as a dealer I have an axe to grind and a reason to hate inspectors, but most folks who know me know that I don't have anything to hide with the cars I sell. They are what they are and I am very choosy about what comes into my shop--I don't sell junk. Nevertheless, I continue to let inspectors into my shop and I continue to sell very, very few cars to the people who pay them.

 

On the other hand, I do sell an awful lot of cars to people who come see them in person. 

[Pilgrim65]

Can you trust an appraiser? 

Well , limit the risks ,if you follow proven procedures when hiring any service , chose one experienced with the  make , check out the references, contact a couple , follow recommendations.

my experience was beyond my expectations, fantastic service, extensive report and photography, great guy , helped organise essential repairs , needed a new clutch . Provided invaluable advice and when the car arrived in Cyprus no surprises apart from a new workshop manual in trunk , a gift.  Guy lives near Chicago and now count as a good friend .

 

Edited March 17, 2019 by Pilgrim65 (see edit history)

[CarNucopia]

The advice above is consistent with my experience. If I can look at a car, I will make every effort to do so. Any car I've purchased without seeing has had something wrong with it. Usually it's minor, but enough I would have asked the seller for a concession. I now expect minor issues and pay accordingly. 

[ted sweet]

On 3/11/2019 at 2:26 PM, George Smolinski said:

I’ve bought long distance. If the seller is willing, I send a cashier check or Postal money orders. As soon as he gets the payment, he overnights the signed title to me. I will wait 2 weeks after he gets the payment to allow time for the check or m.o. to clear. By then the transaction should be complete so a hauler can pick the car up & deliver it to me. I don’t do wire transfers because then there are bank account numbers involved - a high security risk IMO.

same info is on every check you write

[George Smolinski]

3 hours ago, ted sweet said:

same info is on every check you write

I write checks to pay monthly bills. I DON’T write checks to strangers I’m buying cars from, so in my case, your statement doesn’t hold water.

[trimacar]

2 hours ago, George Smolinski said:

I write checks to pay monthly bills. I DON’T write checks to strangers I’m buying cars from, so in my case, your statement doesn’t hold water.

The check you write to pay monthly bills is seen by someone when they get it, so the person at the receiving end could easily copy the numbers.  Doesn't matter, they really can't do anything with them, but the point is that some people are so protective of information on one side, and giving it out freely on the other.....

[Pilgrim65]

I also think , you have to consider what your buying , if you buying a project or daily driver , you probably  are not expecting a faultless car and your outlay is accordingly lower and whether you need to physically veiw yourself is personal choice as an appraiser should be able to convey enough details to you.

However if your buying top end , restored car or very well maintained original and spending big bucks , I think viewing essential,  would be for me.

I also wonder , how expensive internal flights are in US as if I’m spending few K on car what’s a few hundred bucks for piece of mind and if I’m spending big bucks , well the flight cost is minimal compared to total investment 

Edited March 18, 2019 by Pilgrim65 (see edit history)

[George Smolinski]

7 hours ago, trimacar said:

The check you write to pay monthly bills is seen by someone when they get it, so the person at the receiving end could easily copy the numbers.  Doesn't matter, they really can't do anything with them, but the point is that some people are so protective of information on one side, and giving it out freely on the other.....

I’m familiar with what happens to my checks & who can possibly see them when I send them off to pay my monthly bills. Your statement leads me to believe you missed my point, so I will restate it.

I DON’T write checks to strangers I’m buying cars from.

Getting back to the original post, the poster asked for opinions about buying a car from another state. I gave my opinion. Perhaps we should stick to his original post.

[trimacar]

1 hour ago, George Smolinski said:

I DON’T write checks to strangers I’m buying cars from.

Understood, thanks.

 

I think at this point the original question has been answered.  I've bought over 200 cars in the last 50 years, and only 3 were bought without my personal inspection, or "sight unseen" as is said.  Of those, one was a verified high point CCCA car, and one from a well known person, so there were no issues.  The third was a car bought from the late Art Burichter (spelling?), a dealer, and he ripped me off big time.  Expensive car, 1928 Packard 443 coupe, and it got to me with a LOT of problems.  When I expressed my concerns to him, he basically laughed it off and would do nothing about it.

 

So, as answered, for any significant car purchase, go see it yourself.....only way to understand where your money is going.....

[ejboyd5]

Antique and classic car ownership is not a spectator sport.  If the asking price is several times more that the cost of air fare, get off the couch and visit the product prior to purchase.

[60FlatTop]

Back when distance buying became very prevalent, right around the turn of the century, I did my own risk assessment and set up my philosophy. I already knew if I would buy an old car there was someone else out there who would as well. I also put the numbers together and decided I could lose $3,000 to $3,500 and the family would still have a place to live and food.

 

My priority one question is "Do I want this car?" Number 2 question "If I buy it and have to unload it, can I get at least $3,500 less than I paid for it?". That was almost 20 years ago. I have bought a few unseen cars and the  the risk has never materialized. I have bought a couple of pigs that did not meet my expectations, but I cleaned them up and gave a much better sales presentation that the previous seller. I have made a few bucks on the ones I didn't want, but, actually kept more than I should have. None have been over $10,000 in that time and I knew what I was getting into.

I am most cautious about buying from older owners. The older they are the more I distrust them. I prefer the younger, less experienced seller. Sometimes you can buy their car and clean out their whole garage.

 

$10,000 or under is a pretty low price range for a decent car in the hobby today. And it is low enough to be able to recapture most of any mistake one might make. Over $10,000 and not taking the time to look it over yourself is kind of lame. A couple of thousand bucks will get you a round trip ticket, lodging, and a rental car to just about any city in the US. That's the cost of the tires and exhaust system the appraiser overlooked, or whatever equivalent he lacks experience in.

 

Or you could say "I'm going to buy a 50 or 60 year old car, but I want to be very careful about how I spend my money". I laughed just writing that!

Bernie

[mercer09]

I don’t do wire transfers because then there are bank account numbers involved - a high security risk IMO.

 

I was just paid with ZELLE this past week. no acct numbers given out. works entirely on your ph number or email. thats it. never seen anything so simple in my life. Money was instantly in my acct.

[padgett]

My credit unions sends most of my payments, I write maybe 3 checks a year, mostly to the DMV since they charge more if you use cash. For cars, I use stacks of Benjamins.

When I go to look at a car, I take a friend, he often spots things I don't.

Back when I judged platinum it would take me 2-3 hours including "getting out and getting under" to properly examine a car. No-one else did.  Part of the reason I quit.

[John348]

8 hours ago, mercer09 said:

I don’t do wire transfers because then there are bank account numbers involved - a high security risk IMO

 

Mercer, I have done wire transfers several times both selling an buying and there really is no security risk. You can always have your bank open up another account with just the amount for the payment if you are worried. I have never heard of anyone getting burned on a wire transfer, other then buying a bad car. I respect your concern, next time ask your banker 

 

4 hours ago, padgett said:

I use stacks of Benjamins.

 

Mr P, Now that can be high risk with a substantial amount of money, maybe for $1500 car

 

 

16 hours ago, George Smolinski said:

 

I DON’T write checks to strangers I’m buying cars from.

 

George, Not too many people are going to take a personal check from a stranger when they sell a car, so that works both ways

Edited March 19, 2019 by John348 (see edit history)

[mercer09]

sorry John, I didnt say I dont do wire transfers, that was a quote from someone else and yes, I should have put it in quotes. I too never had a problem with a wire transfer, but ZELLE is what I will use from now on in the US.

 

much easier then a transfer and no 3 day wait.............

[Bill Boudway]

Hi,

Please forgive me if this has already been covered.

Never give out your bank routing and your account numbers for someone to make a payment to you. You also know that this info is on all your checks.

Instead, go to your bank (credit union, etc.) and have them set up a one-time account for the purpose of receiving the funds.

Fortunately, I did this and avoided a financial disaster.

Send me a PM , and I'll relate my experience with a scammer from Florida(?).

[60FlatTop]

The biggest precaution I take financially is carrying my money in the front pocket of my pants. My Dad and I went to the Atlantic City car auction and swap meet in 1974 and we were standing at the entrance in a long line. He asked "Where's your money?" I patted my wallet. He told me I wouldn't notice someone slipping my wallet out of my back pocket, but he was pretty sure I'd know if a hand went in my front pocket. At was a short but pivotal discussion of great influence.

 

Some years later I was traveling on the west coast, partly to visit the Pomona swap meet, with a significant amount of money in my pocket. I was driving by bars in the Ontario area at night, thinking of stopping, but not wanting to walk into a strange place with the cash. That was another realization. Since them I carry enough money to be cautious about where I go.

 

The main thing, when distance purchasing or traveling to make a purchase is to stay aware of what you are doing and what is going on around you. And never think you know it all.

 

And watch out for those old scoundrels.

 

 

"Elmer, I almost lost it when you told that city slicker you were selling our Buick for money to fix up the porch."

Edited March 19, 2019 by 60FlatTop (see edit history)