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Wanted: Lock Core for '32 Dictator driver side door

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Need a replacement lock core for the door handle.  If there are two sizes, it is the short one, with the end spring leaf 11/16" back from the face.  If I can't find a lock core, then would like to find a replacement handle.

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Rick

A picture would be helpful and a part number.

I have many unidentified locks.

interchange with other years?

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

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Robert -

Here is a photo of the core with key inserted.

Core is overall 15/16" long to the end of the protruding knob.  Critical dimension is also the length from the face to the spring tab which locks the core into the lock case groove - that dimension is 21 /32".  Note that I have read where that dimension is supposed to be 15/16", which may be correct for the ignition cores which are larger, but is not correct for the door lock cores which are shorter.  Also is a photo of the handle (if you have handles, it is 4 3/4" long 4 5/8" from the lock face to the square end of the shaft).

Thanks (as always) for any help you can give!

 

Lock Core.jpg

20190205_132309.jpg

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Robert -

No number in the Studebaker part books for the lock core (it only appears to have come as part of the assembly).  The proper door handle assembly is part 254798W and the key blank is 170466, if that helps.

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I don't think there was a lock originally in the driver's side door. Studebaker put the lock on the passengers side. 

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My 1929-40 Body Parts Catalog shows the lock cylinder and keys (2 ea) as p/n 256766, used on all 6's and 8's from 1929-36 in door handles (right side only, of course).  It was also used in the trunk handle up to 1935. 

 

The 1934-46 Parts Catalog also shows the 256766 lock cylinder and keys being used in spare wheel carriers on 1934-36 Dictators, 1934-35 Commanders, and 1934-40 Presidents.

 

So, a lock cylinder or door handle/trunk handle/spare wheel carrier from any of those cars would provide your part.

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Yes, Gary - the spare wheel carrier locks appear to be the same core, but of course you can't remove them without drilling the case.  Core would be confirmed in that key blank is also the same.  Thanks for finding the part number!  I now have more hope of being able to lock my door!

 

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Looking at the cylinder, it almost invites being directly 3D printed in stainless steel/bronze - if the exact dimensions existed.  Shapeways.com can print in stainless/bronze, polish the part, and nickel plate it.  The biggest difficulty is that dimensions of the finished part can be +/- 5% from the CAD file, which is a lot on a part like this.  The original die castings must have had an incredibly complex die to make all the slots and holes.  There must have been lots of other cars that also used these locks, so it should be possible to find a cylinder.

 

Just for fun, here's a quick 3D rendition of a lock cylinder based on your photo and a cylinder I have from a 1948 M5 truck (not the same part).  The only dimension I had from your part is the 21/32" dimension, the rest is scaled from your one photo or flat-out guessed.  Shapeways says it would cost about $32 for printing, polishing, and nickel plating.  The original part must have been zinc.

 

 

lock cylinder 1.png

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I have 265595  (6G-9G,  14A- 17A ) and it looks the same so I started measuring some others and they look close except for the part (nub) on the end that turns.

I used to have these organized until someone dumped them out at a show, looking for something that wasn't in there so I have quite a few oldies and no idea what they fit now.. Some have a flipper/dust cover.   Some are just flat.  I think if we look some of these were used well into the 1950's

 

265595-  I got .800 from the shoulder, down to the nub on the end,   .985 from the face down to the nub. ,  and  .516 from the shoulder, down to the brass spring tab.   Also important is the nub on the end, some are round, half round, half rectangle and must match the part down in the well.

lock cyl 6G 001.jpg

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The .516 agrees - which is the really important part (measured with inside calipers).

Overall from face to the bottom of the round nub is .927 with the face being .130 leaving the .800 dimension agreeing.

Only difference then is that the newer cores had the keyhole cover and thus probably a thicker face than the .130 (looks like .185 on your drawing).

So, this core would interchange, but not be the exact part, and vice-versa, the older ones without the keyhole cover would work in newer applications.

 

Gary - your idea of having then 3-D printed may be a very good idea, as I expect the brass bits are available as they are what locksmiths use to re-key these cores - but I have a feeling there are lots of these around, just that they are lacking identification.  I would think the +- 5% tolerance would not be an issue if the .516 can be held so that the center of that brass spring tab from the face of the lock is correct so that the core will snap into the case in the door handle, trunk, or sidemount lock.

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13 hours ago, studeq said:

I don't think there was a lock originally in the driver's side door. Studebaker put the lock on the passengers side. 

That makes sense, Dick.  When I drilled out the lock core I had to drill into the top of the handle to release the brass spring tab (which seemed designed wrong), and the key orientation appears to be upside down with the locking handle on the driver's door.  I'm sure the handle was for the opposite hand door!  I wonder if points have ever been deducted in judging because the locking handle was on the driver's door instead of the passengers?...

So many little mysteries...

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Posted (edited)

Wondering what other cylinders might fit - your problem is a good mystery challenge! - I Googled for suppliers of vintage door locks and keys.  At the Key-men.com site, if you search on Studebaker, a long list comes up for keys.  Scroll down to the H1122M blank, which is listed for 1925-37 Studebakers, as well as 1931-32 Chryslers, some Willys, and Checkers.  There are a lot of other 1122 blanks with different last letters.  These seem to indicate the number and shape of the grooves, so even if the cylinder from another car fits, your current key may not - unless you get a Studebaker cylinder from that period.

 

http://www.key-men.com/shopping/show_cat.php

 

Here is something from another site, 

 

https://www.locksmithledger.com/locks/antique-design-locks/article/10228044/a-look-back-at-vintage-auto-locks

"Early Studebakers from the 1931-1940 used wafer keys and keyway O1122A. 1941-1949 models used an X1199AR blank for the door and ignition with the O1122A keyway continuing for trunk locks. 1949-1952 models often used Hurd locks with the same Ilco 1125H keyway as 1932-1951 Ford. Studebaker went back to the X1199AR blank from 1952-1965. Ilco O1122A blanks were used during 1952-1965 for trunk locks."

 

Does that mean a trunk lock from a '50s or '60s Studebaker might provide a cylinder?

 

It's also worth calling Studebaker International to see if they have any old locks in stock.  Many times they have "one of" that is not shown in the catalog, especially on pre-war stuff.

 

I have disassembled these locks to swap the little tabs so that I could make a cylinder that matched my current one.  With only a few old cylinders, you can usually make up a set of tabs.  You may need a jeweler's eye loupe to read the number or letter stamped on the tab.  For anyone who wants to disassemble a cylinder, be sure to do it inside a bucket or drawer lined with a white cloth because the odds are that lots of little tabs and tiny springs and things will go flying.

Edited by Gary_Ash (see edit history)

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STILL LOOKING: No problem getting key blanks for this core - they are still stocked by our local locksmith.  Problem is that new cores are not available, which is why I am looking an old one or an NOS one.  I don't need the keys.  In fact for one, I don't even need a set of tabs; just need to replace the broken case casting.

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Keep an eye on eBay too. They come up from time to time. I have the same problem with my Dodge 8 door lock, which is a Briggs and Stratton lock.

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Rick

I send you some pictures.

I can send you some lock cylinders for you to try.

I have several for you to try.

Text me your shipping address

Robert Kapteyn

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Robert -

Lock cores arrived today.  Four of the five were too long, and none was exactly correct.  But the core length and nub on the more modern one with the keyhole cover was right.  The photo of the three locks is (bottom to top): the original lock with the cracked case, the one you sent which fits, and a Slide-Co Patio Door Lock #141388 ($7.48 Amazon Prime).  The Slide-Co fits perfectly as far as the core, but the keyhole face is about 1/8" smaller in diameter and slightly thinner, so that it is a sloppy fit.  I installed the second lock core, and it is pictured in the handle.  The keyhole face is about 1/16" thicker than the original (as also seen in the photo of the three lock cores), but now my car will lock!.  As a side note, the Slide-Co Patio Door Lock key is the same key as fits my pair of side-mount wheel locks for the Dictator.  Now, drivers door and rear doors lock from the inside, and passenger door locks with a key.  I will be sending back the four cores which were a bit too long on Monday, along with reimbursing your postage for the ones you sent and making payment as we agree.  Thanks - once again Joliet Studebaker and your wisdom has come to my rescue!

Door Handle.jpg

Lock Cores.jpg

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