kfle

Trailer insurance question

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So I am buying a new custom built 24 ft long by 8.5 ft interior height trailer for use with my own collection of pre 1932 cars.  This will replace my first enclosed trailer that I purchased that was smaller and not built as strong.  We have only been in this for a few years and will also start going to Hershey, other meets, and some auctions.  

 

I have a few questions about insurance that I cannot seem to find the answer on or even where to start.  I currently have trailer insurance for my own trailer and personal use, but what about these two scenarios?

 

1.  What happens if I am moving a car for a friend or maybe helping out a museum move one of their cars?  Does the trailer insurance - especially liability cover this case?

2.  I have seen other people do this and my son suggested it as an idea, that we help someone move their car for money.  This would not be the primary purpose and not planning to start a full time business, but if I am going somewhere with an empty trailer, why not see if someone needs me to take a car and then this helps fund the trip and my hobby.  What type of insurance do you need for this and where can you get insurance that covers liability and contents?  Or does the person who owns the car provide insurance for the 'contents' through their own classic car insurance and we would just need liability?  I have done searches online about car hauling insurance but everything I find is for people who are driving the big rigs taking 3-6 cars in a load in big commercial business.

 

I know someone has to be doing this and so was looking for some tips and advice.

 

Thanks!

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Usually, a pulled trailer is covered by the liability policy of the towing vehicle.

 

This liability does not cover damage to trailer contents.

 

The next thought is, well, car owner has insurance on his car, why worry?  Well, the insurance company will pay him his claim, then come after you for the money, citing negligence on your part.

 

To have correct coverage, you need to set it up as a business, and get business insurance.

 

I'm no expert, just passing on based on what I know of Virginia insuarance. Some states may differ.

 

The problem these days is that we live in a litigious society, and doing a "favor" for someone can bite you in your aspirations.....

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I have my trailers listed on my insurance just so they know I use them behind my truck . I only haul my own vehicles one of my trailers is used for hauling water and I want to make sure I'm covered for the weight of the complete vehicle .

Hauling for hire  is a lot more complicated .

Helping some one out by hauling there vehicle and the worst happens  would be on you.

Having some one pay you to haul a vehicle and the worst happens  again  it would be on you .

To me  sure I would like to help but my insurance is not paying for another persons property .

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I have commercial coverage.

 

I also have agreed upon value replacement coverage on my enclosed

car hauler trailer.

 

Your automobile policy extends to you & your immediate family

usually residing in the same household.

 

It usually covers commercial rental of trailers you rent like

a U Haul trailer.

 

Automobile policies vary - but generally you do not have coverage for

vehicles you do not own that are in your trailer - just like you do

not have coverage for trailers you tow that are borrowed.

 

Automobile insurance is specific to the person(s) it is issued to.

 

The insurance company rates your insurance on specific information.

 

 

Jim

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26 minutes ago, Trulyvintage said:

I have commercial coverage.

 

I also have agreed upon value replacement coverage on my enclosed

car hauler trailer.

 

Your automobile policy extends to you & your immediate family

usually residing in the same household.

 

It usually covers commercial rental of trailers you rent like

a U Haul trailer.

 

Automobile policies vary - but generally you do not have coverage for

vehicles you do not own that are in your trailer - just like you do

not have coverage for trailers you tow that are borrowed.

 

Automobile insurance is specific to the person(s) it is issued to.

 

The insurance company rates your insurance on specific information.

 

 

Jim

Thanks Jim.  I was speculating you would need commercial insurance to do something like this.  Do you recommend a commercial insurance company that I can talk to so I can start to figure this out?  Of course if I did want to go this route I would have to setup a business and all of that fun stuff, just trying to get some basic information and costs at this point to see if it makes sense and what the options are.  

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kfle

Jim is spot on in his advise but states are different.  I am certain that a commercial policy is necessary as you are interstate transporting another party's items.  Another item that might raise up is in order to obtain proper insurance commercially you will have to have your trailer and your tow truck in a LLC or corporate  ownership which is easily done.  But then you will probably be in FMC domain and need FCC registration and inspections.  Then comes the non-hazmat CDL license items.   I have had similar requests throughout the years but always have to decline.

Robert

Let us know what your attorney and commercial insurance underwriter advises!

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This reminds me of a comment made by a friend of mine who does commercial hauling of vehicles.

 

He said that his insurance policy covered the car being transported in the trailer, but ONLY if that was the ONLY thing in the trailer!  He said that even so much as hanging a T-shirt in the trailer voided his policy.

 

Just a word to the wise, make sure of the fine print in any insurance policy.  

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Posted (edited)
8 hours ago, kfle said:

Thanks Jim.  I was speculating you would need commercial insurance to do something like this.  Do you recommend a commercial insurance company that I can talk to so I can start to figure this out?  Of course if I did want to go this route I would have to setup a business and all of that fun stuff, just trying to get some basic information and costs at this point to see if it makes sense and what the options are.  

 

There is no money to be made in auto transport.

 

I do it to travel and tell stories from the road.

 

Jim

 

 

Edited by Trulyvintage (see edit history)
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3 minutes ago, Trulyvintage said:

 

There is no money to be made in auto transport.

 

I do it to travel and tell stories from the road.

 

Jim

 

i

Understand and not looking to do it as a income generation business.  We have a passion for the cars, people, and events.  My son and I are active with various car related organizations and volunteer with some auto museums as well.  Mostly just looking to cover any liability that I may have and I really do like helping people and organizations out if it makes sense.   Just completely investigating.  

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33 minutes ago, kfle said:

Understand and not looking to do it as a income generation business.  We have a passion for the cars, people, and events.  My son and I are active with various car related organizations and volunteer with some auto museums as well.  Mostly just looking to cover any liability that I may have and I really do like helping people and organizations out if it makes sense.   Just completely investigating.  

 

 

If you can use a good tax write off - then I would pursue it further.

 

 

Jim

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17 minutes ago, Trulyvintage said:

 

 

If you can use a good tax write off - then I would pursue it further.

 

 

Jim

Now your reading my mind and thanks for the input!

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Lots of interesting questions. Trailering is a very difficult and dangerous thing nowadays with the amount of traffic, poor road conditions, (maintenance & weather), poor drivers, and a handful of other issues. To be honest, if I had a chance to sit down with Jim and ask him about his business, I think one would be amazed that a independent single hauler can survive today. Tolls, fuel, insurance, maintenance of both vehicles, replacement costs of vehicles, hotels, ..............I often wonder what the actual return on ones investment and time could possibly be. Add in empty miles, Time looking for loads,.........it boggles the mind. Driving to maximize mileage is a must. Ten years ago I remember a independent hauler complaining about the cost of a flat tire that needed replacement and how he would be working for three days just to cover the costs. While income varies from state to state, if one could figure out the actual pay per hour after ALL expense were figured out, I think the hourly rate would be lower than most people expect. If one managed twenty dollars per hour after everything, and only drove a forty hour work week, that’s 800 dollars per week going over the road...........depending on one’s skills, education, family status, ect.............that’s not a lot of compensation for the effort in today’s economy. Years ago there were lots of small independent haulers that worked local or “short” distance, today I just can’t imagine trying to do it. Notice we haven’t even discussed care and treatment of the car........I see LOTS of drivers who just don’t give two cents about the cars............LOTS, as I ship more cars than most people and see the operations in the lots, like at Amelia Island just yesterday. Everyone asks.........how much does it cost to move a car from point A to point B..........the answer should be.........who is the best shipper who won’t damage my car or take unnecessary risks while moving it. Cost should be way down the list of criteria when selecting a hauler............pick the best one........not the least expensive!

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2 hours ago, edinmass said:

 Everyone asks.........how much does it cost to move a car from point A to point B..........the answer should be.........who is the best shipper who won’t damage my car or take unnecessary risks while moving it. Cost should be way down the list of criteria when selecting a hauler............pick the best one........not the least expensive!

 

 

  Very insightful comments Ed,

 

  I quoted the last point as the Quality of the transporter should always be the most important question. There are some real hacks out there, junk equipment, NOT car guys, don't speak English, treat the customers like they are a bother, don't keep a schedule, etc, etc. 

 

  However a Quality Transporter who is Honest & has a  Great Reputation/ Rapport with their customers can do very well, especially if he knows how to run his business. Trust me, as much as I enjoy the folks I deal with, love the cars & being at all the big shows... If it was NOT highly profitable, I would stay home & do Customer Paint & or Restorations in the shop like i used to do many years back before the transports took over everything

 

God Bless

Bill Squires (owner)

Bill's Auto Works

https://www.jalopyjournal.com/forum/threads/nationwide-single-car-transport-hauling-open-or-enclosed.614419/

IMG_20190222_075134088 (640x360).jpg

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Posted (edited)

I have been a member here since 2008.

 

I didn't join (6) days ago ....

 

 

Jim

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited by Trulyvintage (see edit history)

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Posted (edited)
10 hours ago, edinmass said:

Lots of interesting questions. Trailering is a very difficult and dangerous thing nowadays with the amount of traffic, poor road conditions, (maintenance & weather), poor drivers, and a handful of other issues. To be honest, if I had a chance to sit down with Jim and ask him about his business, I think one would be amazed that a independent single hauler can survive today. Tolls, fuel, insurance, maintenance of both vehicles, replacement costs of vehicles, hotels, ..............I often wonder what the actual return on ones investment and time could possibly be. Add in empty miles, Time looking for loads,.........it boggles the mind. Driving to maximize mileage is a must. Ten years ago I remember a independent hauler complaining about the cost of a flat tire that needed replacement and how he would be working for three days just to cover the costs. While income varies from state to state, if one could figure out the actual pay per hour after ALL expense were figured out, I think the hourly rate would be lower than most people expect. If one managed twenty dollars per hour after everything, and only drove a forty hour work week, that’s 800 dollars per week going over the road...........depending on one’s skills, education, family status, ect.............that’s not a lot of compensation for the effort in today’s economy. Years ago there were lots of small independent haulers that worked local or “short” distance, today I just can’t imagine trying to do it. Notice we haven’t even discussed care and treatment of the car........I see LOTS of drivers who just don’t give two cents about the cars............LOTS, as I ship more cars than most people and see the operations in the lots, like at Amelia Island just yesterday. Everyone asks.........how much does it cost to move a car from point A to point B..........the answer should be.........who is the best shipper who won’t damage my car or take unnecessary risks while moving it. Cost should be way down the list of criteria when selecting a hauler............pick the best one........not the least expensive!

 

 

That just about sums things up Ed ....

 

Transport - for me - is a way to meet folks and tell stories from the road.

 

I have always done that.

 

I always give back.

 

To museums - thru donations - free transport from time to time.

 

I have given away (3) Model T vehicles and (1) enclosed car hauler trailer in the past few years.

 

That - is my business model.

 

I Enjoy Helping Others.

 

 

Jim

Edited by Trulyvintage (see edit history)
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Two things you need to be aware of are>

#1  All 50 States regulate Insurance.  (Usually differently)

#2  All personal auto policies that I know of exclude coverage for "Livery"     (Don't

deliver pizza, haul freight or use it as a TAXI)

 

In that business 30 years.

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Posted (edited)
On 3/11/2019 at 3:49 AM, Dynaflash8 said:

J. C. Taylor, Inc. insures my trailer

And the contents even if they are not yours? I have JC Taylor’s for the antique cars, but my trailer is not an antique and they won’t cover the cars once on any trailer. Just curious.

Edited by victorialynn2 (see edit history)

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Posted (edited)

As usual, as Paul indicated, every state is different.  There is no way to answer a general question about auto or trailer insurance other than to say how your state does it.  I’m an adjuster.

 

There are also huge differences in personal trailer policies vs. commercial policies.

Edited by 39BuickEight (see edit history)
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On 3/11/2019 at 1:56 PM, Trulyvintage said:

 

 

That just about sums things up Ed ....

 

Transport - for me - is a way to meet folks and tell stories from the road.

 

I have always done that.

 

I always give back.

 

To museums - thru donations - free transport from time to time.

 

I have given away (3) Model T vehicles and (1) enclosed car hauler trailer in the past few years.

 

That - is my business model.

 

I Enjoy Helping Others.

 

 

Jim

And the Model T community obviously knows and trusts you as is evident by your Facebook page. ✔️

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10 hours ago, victorialynn2 said:

And the contents even if they are not yours? I have JC Taylor’s for the antique cars, but my trailer is not an antique and they won’t cover the cars once on any trailer. Just curious.

 

8 hours ago, victorialynn2 said:

And the Model T community obviously knows and trusts you as is evident by your Facebook page. ✔️

J. C Taylor insure my cars themselves, on or off my trailer.  They insure the trailer in case itself is damaged in any way.  Most regular insurance companies would not insure the trailer for its value, at least at a reasonable price.  Regular insurance companies insure the trailer automatically when attached to the puller as part of the puller insurance for liability only (damage to others)

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I have been involved in (3) accidents involving towed trailers by others that resulted in damage to my vehicle and/or trailer over the years.

 

(2) were before I started hauling.

 

In each case - the tow vehicles and/or trailers were not owned by the operators.

 

In each case - the operators were cited for moving violations.

 

In (2) cases the tow vehicle and/or trailer were towed from the accident scene because the operator could not establish ownership.

 

In all (3) cases - the insurance companies representing the tow vehicle owners(s) - the trailer owner(s) - the operators - declined coverage.

 

In all cases - the reasons given by the insurance companies were:

 

Operator of the insured vehicle not a policyholder and/or immediate household member.

 

Tow vehicle and/or trailer not declared on policy of operator.

 

In one case - I filed a small claim action to recover damages - because the insurance company is required to represent their insured the matter was moved to a higher court where I would have had to retain legal counsel - the matter did not warrant the expense.

 

Perhaps someone else with firsthand experience would care to comment ....

 

 

Jim

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I added my trailer to my collector car policy for collision and comprehensive.  It's all aluminum and worth a billion beer cans.  Liability coverage comes from whichever vehicle I'm towing it with.  I don't tow for hire.

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Knock on Asphalt. 5 million plus miles from tow bars starting in 68 to one car to 11 car trailers. I have never been invoked in a accident. So, I cannot comment.

Still hauling cars at 68 years old. Love the hobby.

Picture of my 2019 Pet in Moab UT.

Screenshot_20190702-234055.png

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On 3/11/2019 at 3:16 AM, edinmass said:

Lots of interesting questions. Trailering is a very difficult and dangerous thing nowadays with the amount of traffic, poor road conditions, (maintenance & weather), poor drivers, and a handful of other issues. To be honest, if I had a chance to sit down with Jim and ask him about his business, I think one would be amazed that a independent single hauler can survive today. Tolls, fuel, insurance, maintenance of both vehicles, replacement costs of vehicles, hotels, ..............I often wonder what the actual return on ones investment and time could possibly be. Add in empty miles, Time looking for loads,.........it boggles the mind. Driving to maximize mileage is a must. Ten years ago I remember a independent hauler complaining about the cost of a flat tire that needed replacement and how he would be working for three days just to cover the costs. While income varies from state to state, if one could figure out the actual pay per hour after ALL expense were figured out, I think the hourly rate would be lower than most people expect. If one managed twenty dollars per hour after everything, and only drove a forty hour work week, that’s 800 dollars per week going over the road...........depending on one’s skills, education, family status, ect.............that’s not a lot of compensation for the effort in today’s economy. Years ago there were lots of small independent haulers that worked local or “short” distance, today I just can’t imagine trying to do it. Notice we haven’t even discussed care and treatment of the car........I see LOTS of drivers who just don’t give two cents about the cars............LOTS, as I ship more cars than most people and see the operations in the lots, like at Amelia Island just yesterday. Everyone asks.........how much does it cost to move a car from point A to point B..........the answer should be.........who is the best shipper who won’t damage my car or take unnecessary risks while moving it. Cost should be way down the list of criteria when selecting a hauler............pick the best one........not the least expensive!

Did 140k 1099 last year as a driver of a new truck. Truck gross 400k plus. drove 110k miles. This year we are doing better. 1099 works great because of taxes. You still m in WPB FL?

Screenshot_20190702-234055.png

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