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My friend discovered an old Chrysler that has a data tag in German. It is said that it is type 65 from 1928, but it does not match engine performance and content. It is said that it was made in Germany, but I do not know that it would be a production factory in Germany. Photo data tag is from that car. Can someone help me with the determination of the car, when and where it was made and what is the type. It's definitely a six-cylinder.

 

Thank you
marbeton
 

data tag.jpg

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Posted (edited)

FEDCO chart says it is a 1928 Model 65....first column at the bottom...."LL3...."....

Fedco chart 3.jpg

Edited by keiser31 (see edit history)

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1 hour ago, keiser31 said:

FEDCO chart says it is a 1928 Model 65....first column at the bottom...."LL3...."....

 

 

Thank you Keiser31, ist very importent for me. You do not know whether they were manufactured in Germany or just imported the USA?

 

marbeton


 
1 hour ago, keiser31 said:

Fedco chart 3.jpg

 

 

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2 minutes ago, marbeton said:

 

 

Thank you Keiser31, ist very importent for me. You do not know whether they were manufactured in Germany or just imported the USA?

 

marbeton



 

 

THAT, I do not know. My Dad was an executive for Chrysler Export-Import Division, but unfortunately he is gone and cannot say.

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That's a cool tag which US market cars did not have. I believe there was an European assembly plant, possibly in Netherlands or Germany at the time. The tag is likely result of national regulations. The European 1929 Chrysler adverts were fantastic examples of ArtDeco by the way.

29 Chr 3 S65 S75 Ply - Euro GCAT 001 Crawfords UK GER FRA.jpg

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I think so it´s import to Germany and data tag there had to do in German to comply with German regulations

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Do you have any photos of the car that you can post for us to view? We DO love photos.

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I seem to recall reading somewhere that Chrysler had an assembly plant in Belgium in the 1920's, but can't remember where I saw the article

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7 hours ago, Narve N said:

That's a cool tag which US market cars did not have. I believe there was an European assembly plant, possibly in Netherlands or Germany at the time. The tag is likely result of national regulations. The European 1929 Chrysler adverts were fantastic examples of ArtDeco by the way.

29 Chr 3 S65 S75 Ply - Euro GCAT 001 Crawfords UK GER FRA.jpg

Wow! You are right about the fantastic graphics.

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.

10 hours ago, viv w said:

I seem to recall reading somewhere that Chrysler had an assembly plant in Belgium in the 1920's, but can't remember where I saw the article

If production in Belgium is, it would have been another FEDCO series like Canada's Windsor. I think the car was imported from Detroit complete and only in Germany I was making German data tag.

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Here is a Norwegian data tag for a Series 75 Roadster. The car was made in Detroit and the quality of the tag is questionable, including stamping an incorrect first digit in the FEDCO-number and unreadable last digits. It has also lived a hard life, but will likely be put back in its patinated condition.

1807 02 Olav Haddeland kjøper S75R (2).jpg

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Does that mean that cars made in Detroit for export had data tag in the language of the country where it was exported? Right from production?

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10 hours ago, marbeton said:

Does that mean that cars made in Detroit for export had data tag in the language of the country where it was exported? Right from production?

No. Must have been added by the importer, including recommending a specific oil for servicing. I also doubt Chrysler Corp would have slipped a data-tag with incorrect numbers on it.

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15 minutes ago, Narve N said:

No. Must have been added by the importer, including recommending a specific oil for servicing. I also doubt Chrysler Corp would have slipped a data-tag with incorrect numbers on it. 

Yes, apparently you are right and the data tag was supplied by the importer

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You say the data plate does not match the engine performance and content. Is it possible the engine was changed some time in the last 90 years? Can you give us the engine number and photos of the engine? Engine number is stamped into a raised pad on the engine block, usually on the left side.

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The engine number corresponds to the data tag. But it does not match the engine content and engine power. 
According to historical records, type 65 should have engine content 195.6 cu.i, (3,205 ccm) but the data tag is 3.180 ccm. 
The performance should also be based on historical records of 65 HP, but the tag data is 55 HP. 
Here is the difference I do not understand.
  

 

 

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On 3/6/2019 at 8:41 PM, keiser31 said:

Do you have any photos of the car that you can post for us to view? We DO love photos.

 

I'm sending a few photos. Interestingly, the dashboard does not match any Chrysler of that time. The wheel is also in the front fender and not on the back of the car. Plus, there's a fifth door. Apparently the car used to be a taxi. Have any such special modifications been made directly at the factory?  Unfortunately, I do not have more photographs yet

Resized_20181208_152526_5522.jpg

Resized_20181208_152617_5017.jpg

Resized_20181208_152634_3971.jpg

Resized_20181208_152645_3520.jpg

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Marbeton, the vehicle type , such as model 65, is not the horsepower of the vehicle, it is the maximum speed the car was capable of when new. So a model 65 would have been capable of 65MPH.

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9 hours ago, viv w said:

Marbeton, the vehicle type , such as model 65, is not the horsepower of the vehicle, it is the maximum speed the car was capable of when new. So a model 65 would have been capable of 65MPH.

Yes type is actually 65 by FEDCO number.
Interestingly, the German datatag shows the performance in 55 HP (PS) and a volume of 3180 cm3 and is actually supposed to have 195.6 cu.in. (That is 3.205cm3.)
Also, the performance should be 65 HP (PS). But the most interesting are the fifth door on the back wall. Here I need help if this is done, or it is a later modification from some body shop. Another instrument panel was probably later replaced with a dashboard from Czech Aero or Skoda cars. According to the picture they exactly match them.
 

 

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Appears to be a Chrysler modified locally for commercial use. If you carefully inspect the spare tire well, rear door and instrument panel you should see evidence of hand work and modification. The spare tire would have been moved from the back to the side to allow the rear door to open. The date of the dash board could be a clue to the date of modification.

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Back in the 80s a vendor calling himself The Gasket King asked whether my Series 65 was an export model, which according to his sources should have a smaller bore than the regular Series 65 and corresponding different head gasket. I have never encountered anything like that but could be an explanation to the deviation in engine volume and HP-rating as the data tag shows?

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I also thought it was some sort of export adjustment. Probably due to car taxes in Germany
 

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The horsepower tax in UK caused smaller engines to be used in some cars exported to there.

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Posted (edited)

UK horsepower tax was one pound per year per horsepower. In those days many working men made 2 or 3 pounds per week. So you can see this was a substantial expense. The horsepower was rated, or calculated, not developed horsepower. The formula did not take the stroke into account just the bore of the engine. So a small reduction in bore size could drop a car into the next lower HP class, resulting in a substantial savings to the customer. Of course car buyers took this into consideration when choosing a car. American car manufacturers made small bore versions of their motors for this reason.

 

In Germany the tax was based on engine displacement. I don't know how high the tax was or if it influenced engine design. In any case it was dropped in 1933.

 

 

 

 

Edited by Rusty_OToole (see edit history)

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