1920's Luxury Car in Dallas Texas

[Steve Hagy]

Back in the old days the Chief of a large fire department generally had a car that was quite fancy.  It appear that the Fire Chief in Dallas, Texas was no exception to this rule.  I would like to know the year, amke and model of this beauty.  I wonder if that sign down the street is a clue?

 

Thank you,

 

Steve

Edited February 18, 2019 by Steve Hagy (see edit history)

[TerryB]

It’s a Packard, not sure of the year.

[keiser31]

1928 Packard 433 phaeton, I believe....this one has different door handles....

Edited February 18, 2019 by keiser31 (see edit history)

[Matt Harwood]

Packard 443 7-passenger phaeton circa 1928?

[Matt Harwood]

Dag-nabbit, Keiser!

[58L-Y8]

Its a 1928 Packard Custom 443 seven passenger touring car, body style no. 310.  The touring is easily identified by the loop carriage-style door handles versus the straight type seen on the red phaeton pictures above.  Another telltale its a touring is the rear of the body is further to the rear whereas the phaeton is more close-coupled.  The Dallas Fire Chief certainly had a nice expensive car befitting his important position.

 

The sign down to the right reads "Auburn Dallas, Used Car Dept" must have been that for the Auburn dealer in the area. 

[jrbartlett]

Relatively powerful car for the era, with 109 horsepower. Factory said they would run 85 MPH. What color do you think it was?  Clearly not black, and looks too light to have been red.

[Matt Harwood]

15 minutes ago, jrbartlett said:

Relatively powerful car for the era, with 109 horsepower. Factory said they would run 85 MPH. What color do you think it was?  Clearly not black, and looks too light to have been red.

 

Also interesting that the fenders are the same color as the body. In 1928, even the big Classics still typically had black fenders as standard equipment. I think it very well could be bright red for the Fire Chief. I also note that the wheels are about the same color as well, but they're pinstriped, so it could have been ordered all-red from the factory. The interior is dark but I don't think it's quite dark enough to be black. Would dark red leather in a bright red car look awful? What else could it be? Brown?

 

Here's Keiser's example car rendered in grayscale for comparison (note that the old photo was taken in direct sunlight):

 

 

The more I look at them, the more I like the 4th Series Packards. Beyond the headlights, are they significantly different than, say, the Sixth Series cars in 1929? Open cars like this sure look lower and sleeker than most other 1929-1931 Packards.

 

Also, could that be the fire department building behind them? Look at the big overhead doors that are all open...

 

 

 

Edited February 18, 2019 by Matt Harwood (see edit history)

[nzcarnerd]

1 hour ago, jrbartlett said:

Relatively powerful car for the era, with 109 horsepower. Factory said they would run 85 MPH. What color do you think it was?  Clearly not black, and looks too light to have been red.

 

I did some quick calculations just for interest. The Standard Catalog says the tyre size for 1928 was 32 x 6.75 so we will assume 32" diameter. The rear end ratio for the open cars was 4.07:1

 

Pi x diameter give 100.5" circumference. Divide that into 63360 gives 630 revolutions per mile - or 630 wheel revolutions per minute at 60 mph. Multiply that by 4.07 to get revs at 60 mph -  2566 rpm.

 

Divide that by 6 to get rpm/10 mph - 427 rpm. Times by 8.5 to get revs at 85 mph - 3635. Getting up there for a big eight with a 5 inch stroke? Peak power is at 3200.

 

I have had some involvement with 1934 Series 40 Buicks - a different class of car I realise. Like most cars of the era the rear end ratio is quite low at 4.33:1. On 16" wheels it does 3200 rpm at 60 mph - coincidentally its peak power revs. The factory reckoned these would do 85 mph - it would mean running 4500 rpm.

[Matt Harwood]

37 minutes ago, nzcarnerd said:

The factory reckoned these would do 85 mph - it would mean running 4500 rpm.

 

They never said for how long they'd run at 85 MPH...

 

I bet I could get my 1929 Cadillac up to 80 MPH or so. And a few seconds after snapping the photo of the speedometer to prove it, a few of the connecting rods would surely liberate themselves from the crankcase in spectacular fashion!

[mikewest]

23 hours ago, Matt Harwood said:

Packard 443 7-passenger phaeton circa 1928?

This is a 6 cyl 1928 I sold about 5 years ago.  It wasn't a big car like the one shown.

[Steve Hagy]

Thank you all for the replies.  I know that an answer is always at hand on this site.

[jrbartlett]

Yes, high RPMs. But you may be off on your tire circumference. These cars ran 700x20 and the tires that size I saw on the Coker Tire website show diameters of 33-35 inches. (Yes, I know tires could be larger now.)

 

We had a '29 Packard Super 8 Club Sedan during the 1960s. My father ran it hard, over 80 more than once according to the modern cars running with him -- though he normally cruised much slower. Finally burned out a rod bearing in a race against a '31 Buick Model 90.

 

I have a '29 Super 8 Roadster now, and have run it at 75 for about 10 minutes once when I inadvertently had to enter a freeway when a country road ended. I wound up in the middle of a big pack of trucks and the safest thing to do was run with them until they worked their way around. Didn't want to run that hard, but the car did have more speed available. My normal cruise is 50-55. I've put 7,000 miles on the car since I bought it. It was low-mileage at the time, just over 40,000 on the speedo. Still has the original rod and main bearings, but did have a ring and valve job when first restored.

 

So I'll take the factory's word at 85. Just not for long with, as you say, the long stroke and the babbit bearings. 

[John_Mereness]

Matt, painted fender cars (and painted undercarriages cars) are unusual, though I saw this photo and apparently they are not as unusual as I initially thought via later 1920's (to early 30's) Packards.

[Matt Harwood]

2 hours ago, John_Mereness said:

Matt, painted fender cars (and painted undercarriages cars) are unusual, though I saw this photo and apparently they are not as unusual as I initially thought via later 1920's (to early 30's) Packards.

 

That photo certainly makes sidemounts look rare...

[John_Mereness]

1 minute ago, Matt Harwood said:

 

That photo certainly makes sidemounts look rare...

I am thinking this is some sort of "factory" tour - I cannot imagine why all these new Packards would be together in a group (they are all licensed and .. - so not cars sitting on showroom floors waiting for buyers) and also has to be a large city to have this number in any one place.   

 

With the 35 Auburn Phaeton with sidemounts and the 1936 Auburn Phaeton with spare tire in the trunk it is interesting as most people prefer the sidemounts, though the tire on in the trunk (and I assume tire on the rear before that) were "quote" more "modern" looking (streamlined).

[A. Ballard 35R]

8 hours ago, John_Mereness said:

Matt, painted fender cars (and painted undercarriages cars) are unusual, though I saw this photo and apparently they are not as unusual as I initially thought via later 1920's (to early 30's) Packards.

What a great photo. Can't help but wonder what the occasion was that there were only two closed cars participating.

 

 

[John_Mereness]

14 minutes ago, A. Ballard 35R said:

What a great photo. Can't help but wonder what the occasion was that there were only two closed cars participating.

 

 

Did you notice the touring with an American Flag top boot ?  Also, on the left is a dual Cowl white painted sidemounted spectacular car and another awesome touring two in front of it  with rear trunk and a rear mount tire) and one more to left of it (with sidemounts).

 

Yes, the two people with the closed cars were not doing it right, had good friends, were full of everyone's lunch, or ...

[Spinneyhill]

There appear to be little platforms on the right hand doors of many of them. Makes me wonder if it was a drive-in movie show.

 

There are uprights on three cars, perhaps for a second windscreen for the back seat passengers.

Edited February 25, 2019 by Spinneyhill (see edit history)

[keiser31]

2 hours ago, Spinneyhill said:

There appear to be little platforms on the right hand doors of many of them. Makes me wonder if it was a drive-in movie show.

 

There are uprights on three cars, perhaps for a second windscreen for the back seat passengers.

Those are battery boxes on the running boards.

Edited February 25, 2019 by keiser31 (see edit history)

[Spinneyhill]

1 minute ago, keiser31 said:

Those are battery boxes on the running boards, aren't they?

They are just a thin platform. No box under them as far as  can see. You can also see pale fender under one, at the LR of the sedan.

[keiser31]

I see a box under the one I just posted.

[keiser31]

Actually, I see boxes under all of them with the "platform". Googling "1929 Packard battery box photo" I came up with this....

Edited February 25, 2019 by keiser31 (see edit history)

[Spinneyhill]

OK, I give in! You are right.

[keiser31]

Spinneyhill....I do appreciate the questioning of it because I am always willing to learn.

[Spinneyhill]

The fire chief's car has a box behind the spare wheel, of a different style. It is hard to tell if there was a box on the inside of the wheel. I saw some photos of a box on the inside of a side mount wheel.

[keiser31]

1 minute ago, Spinneyhill said:

The fire chief's car has a box behind the spare wheel, of a different style. It is hard to tell if there was a box on the inside of the wheel. I saw some photos of a box on the inside of a side mount wheel.

I did notice that and I am guessing they either got tired of working on the battery BEHIND the spare tire or maybe it is a spare battery or tool box.

[John_Mereness]

On 2/24/2019 at 10:24 PM, A. Ballard 35R said:

What a great photo. Can't help but wonder what the occasion was that there were only two closed cars participating.

 

 

 

On 2/24/2019 at 1:25 PM, John_Mereness said:

Matt, painted fender cars (and painted undercarriages cars) are unusual, though I saw this photo and apparently they are not as unusual as I initially thought via later 1920's (to early 30's) Packards.

This photo was identified as a Parade for Charles Lindbergh and was in Los Angeles (explaining the quantity of Packard Tourings and the large number of light color painted cars) 

[Brass is Best]

On 2/25/2019 at 4:21 PM, keiser31 said:

I did notice that and I am guessing they either got tired of working on the battery BEHIND the spare tire or maybe it is a spare battery or tool box.

 

The box on the running board has something to do with fighting fire. Maybe gloves and a hydrant wrench, or a universal hose coupler. If you look in the wheel well you can see the bottom of the battery box. 

[Brass is Best]

On 2/24/2019 at 1:25 PM, John_Mereness said:

Matt, painted fender cars (and painted undercarriages cars) are unusual, though I saw this photo and apparently they are not as unusual as I initially thought via later 1920's (to early 30's) Packards.

 

Spectacular photo. Maybe they are going to carry dignitaries in a parade. 

[keiser31]

54 minutes ago, Brass is Best said:

 

The box on the running board has something to do with fighting fire. Maybe gloves and a hydrant wrench, or a universal hose coupler. If you look in the wheel well you can see the bottom of the battery box. 

Yep....it would be difficult to actually remove the battery box itself. That is why I mentioned "tool box". Makes sense to carry the stuff you mentioned.