Hearse

Possible new 64 Riviera owner here greetings everyone!

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Lol...AC modification car...VERY unusual. Only 370 Rivs including exports were built with this option. Basically, a heavy duty cooling option. Does your car show signs of a bumper hitch...like a couple of holes in the lower face of the rear bumper? You`re original fan shroud has gone AWOL. 

Tom Mooney

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No, no bumper hitch at all on it. No holes anywhere either. Interesting . 

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  Well, a heavy duty cooling option would make sense if the owner intended to tow. Originally your car had the shroud, AC type water pump with the extra impellers, the AC sized radiator and the AC type higher output alternator....so in reality a heavy duty cooling AND charging option. You should also have the fuel bypass/return system which was a guard against vapor lock. There should be a small fuel return line at the filter. 

Can you post a pic of your pulley and belt setup?

Tom Mooney 

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It does have a new alternator on it, not sure of the amp size, there is the fuel bypass return system I just put a new WIX fuel filter on it. So that was a guard against vapor lock, that is super interesting lol. I'm loving this car the more I learn about it. Let me go snap a pic of the pulley system real quick one second. 

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Posted (edited)

You should have the AC type clutch and fan and 3 groove crank and water pump pulleys, 2 groove alternator pulley. You should also have the larger in diameter AC type power steering pump pulley which is 5 and 5/8ths in diameter. There wont be a part number stamped into it like `65-`66 but it should have an "AC" stamp in the face of the pulley.

Tom

Edited by 1965rivgs (see edit history)

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This car has the two groove alternator pulley and 4 blade fan, 2 groove crank and water pump pulleys. 

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Interesting, so you have the Alternator & AC Bracket too that can be used to mount the AC on top. Cool car even if can’t get as cold as a complete AC car...

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It is an interesting car I love it, it's never leaving the stable. Will I be able to put the 8 blade fan on and the clutch on my existing water pump? or do I have to swap out for all the AC components?

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  Well, isnt that interesting...I dont doubt that your car was originally built this way (although it is curious there was obviously a second belt running on your alternator pulley at some point since it was "new") but this arrangement is contrary to everything in the `64 Buick parts book and common sense.  The `65 Buick parts book is consistent with the `64. But obviously the AC modification was an unusual option so probably a challenge to the folks putting the cars together on the assembly line.

 

  According to the parts book all the pulleys for the HD cooling option and AC are the same. This makes sense as the reduced diameter of the AC water pump pulley would combine with the extra fins on the AC water pump impeller and the larger radiator to produced greater coolant flow potential. Also makes sense for the high output alternator to be driven with dual belts when it is heavily loaded rather than one as in the non AC single belt lower output system.

 

  However, I seem to recall that the `66 cars with AC mod are equipped similarly to your pic....so who knows? Maybe engineering decided to revise the option and the sales material and parts books were never modified accordingly?

 

  I would be very torn between leaving the belt/pulley system as is for historical accuracy (if it is, in fact, original) or changing over to the AC type pulley/belt system for efficiency.

 

  I`m attaching a couple of scans from the `64 Buick parts book. If you look closely you will see the pulley part numbers for the AC equipped cars in the belt diagram are the same part numbers as in the H.D. cooling illustration. Intersting to note that the engineers are leaving one of the grooves in the pulleys empty instead of adding a second belt to drive the alternator! Apparently, there was some confusion in engineering from the start...

 

Tom Mooney

 

PS I would be curious to know if your engine is original. Part of your VIN should be stamped on the engine block just in front of the lifter valley cover front edge on the driver`s side. Lean over the top of the water manifold which bridges both heads and look straight down.

 

PSS Join the ROA. All this info and more is available to you as a benefit of membership

 

 

img383.jpg

img384 (2).jpg

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You can just swap the fan and clutch. Will bolt to your water pump. Only the internal fan is different from ac (fan blades)to non ac.

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Let me go look at the VIN on the engine one second brb

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Another thing MOST don't know. It appears that the water pump pulley & the crank pulley are of the NON A/C type pulleys looking at the pics.

Non A/C pulleys spin at .9 engine speed whereas A/C pulleys spin at 1.1 engine speed. With the 20" clutch fan & the A/C pulleys it would make the coolant flow faster than non A/C set-ups. Supposed to cool better.

 

Tom T.

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3 minutes ago, telriv said:

Another thing MOST don't know. It appears that the water pump pulley & the crank pulley are of the NON A/C type pulleys looking at the pics.

Non A/C pulleys spin at .9 engine speed whereas A/C pulleys spin at 1.1 engine speed. With the 20" clutch fan & the A/C pulleys it would make the coolant flow faster than non A/C set-ups. Supposed to cool better.

 

Tom T.

Posted above Tom.

Tom

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Posted (edited)

Found the number on the engine block, it  matches the title its a numbers matching engine. 

Edited by Hearse (see edit history)

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Must be blind Tom. I don't see it mentioned anywhere???

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Posted (edited)
17 minutes ago, telriv said:

Must be blind Tom. I don't see it mentioned anywhere???

There are no longer numbers associated with each post, at least on my laptop, but in my post above:

 

  " According to the parts book all the pulleys for the HD cooling option and AC are the same. This makes sense as the reduced diameter of the AC water pump pulley would combine with the extra fins on the AC water pump impeller and the larger radiator to produced greater coolant flow potential. "

 

Tom

Edited by 1965rivgs (see edit history)

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I did some more digging in the `64 parts book and found an inconsistency...there is a listing for a fan "spacer" for the AC modification package. If the option originally included the fan clutch, as the sales description states, there would be no fan spacer.  Beginning to think the AC modification option was built as pictured.

Tom

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Looking at the picture you can see that the fuel filter has a return port and line.  

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1 hour ago, 1965rivgs said:

  Well, isnt that interesting...I dont doubt that your car was originally built this way (although it is curious there was obviously a second belt running on your alternator pulley at some point since it was "new") but this arrangement is contrary to everything in the `64 Buick parts book and common sense.  The `65 Buick parts book is consistent with the `64. But obviously the AC modification was an unusual option so probably a challenge to the folks putting the cars together on the assembly line.

 

  According to the parts book all the pulleys for the HD cooling option and AC are the same. This makes sense as the reduced diameter of the AC water pump pulley would combine with the extra fins on the AC water pump impeller and the larger radiator to produced greater coolant flow potential. Also makes sense for the high output alternator to be driven with dual belts when it is heavily loaded rather than one as in the non AC single belt lower output system.

 

  However, I seem to recall that the `66 cars with AC mod are equipped similarly to your pic....so who knows? Maybe engineering decided to revise the option and the sales material and parts books were never modified accordingly?

 

  I would be very torn between leaving the belt/pulley system as is for historical accuracy (if it is, in fact, original) or changing over to the AC type pulley/belt system for efficiency.

 

  I`m attaching a couple of scans from the `64 Buick parts book. If you look closely you will see the pulley part numbers for the AC equipped cars in the belt diagram are the same part numbers as in the H.D. cooling illustration. Intersting to note that the engineers are leaving one of the grooves in the pulleys empty instead of adding a second belt to drive the alternator! Apparently, there was some confusion in engineering from the start...

 

Tom Mooney

 

PS I would be curious to know if your engine is original. Part of your VIN should be stamped on the engine block just in front of the lifter valley cover front edge on the driver`s side. Lean over the top of the water manifold which bridges both heads and look straight down.

 

PSS Join the ROA. All this info and more is available to you as a benefit of membership

 

 

img383.jpg

img384 (2).jpg

Hmm, in this picture it isn't the the Alternator & AC Bracket that is in Hearse's car, it is just the standard Alternator bracket.

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Yes, but it also has the "ears" for the mounting of the A/C compressor.

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It does have the ears for the mounting on the compressor . The stud on the cylinder head. It does have 2 holes on the lower portion of the bumper after having looked better but it looks like nothing was ever mounted there and thats not exactly what I would call a solid mounting point if one were to bolt a trailer hitch on there. 

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I have a feeling that all of the engines were assembled with the same number of studded bolts.  

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Now I just need to know which shroud to use with the current bottom brackets. Or get the other's you linked to me Ed. I'll put a shroud over this 4 blade fan I'm ok with that. 

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