Jump to content

Possible new 64 Riviera owner here greetings everyone!


Recommended Posts

It is an interesting car I love it, it's never leaving the stable. Will I be able to put the 8 blade fan on and the clutch on my existing water pump? or do I have to swap out for all the AC components?

Link to post
Share on other sites

  Well, isnt that interesting...I dont doubt that your car was originally built this way (although it is curious there was obviously a second belt running on your alternator pulley at some point since it was "new") but this arrangement is contrary to everything in the `64 Buick parts book and common sense.  The `65 Buick parts book is consistent with the `64. But obviously the AC modification was an unusual option so probably a challenge to the folks putting the cars together on the assembly line.

 

  According to the parts book all the pulleys for the HD cooling option and AC are the same. This makes sense as the reduced diameter of the AC water pump pulley would combine with the extra fins on the AC water pump impeller and the larger radiator to produced greater coolant flow potential. Also makes sense for the high output alternator to be driven with dual belts when it is heavily loaded rather than one as in the non AC single belt lower output system.

 

  However, I seem to recall that the `66 cars with AC mod are equipped similarly to your pic....so who knows? Maybe engineering decided to revise the option and the sales material and parts books were never modified accordingly?

 

  I would be very torn between leaving the belt/pulley system as is for historical accuracy (if it is, in fact, original) or changing over to the AC type pulley/belt system for efficiency.

 

  I`m attaching a couple of scans from the `64 Buick parts book. If you look closely you will see the pulley part numbers for the AC equipped cars in the belt diagram are the same part numbers as in the H.D. cooling illustration. Intersting to note that the engineers are leaving one of the grooves in the pulleys empty instead of adding a second belt to drive the alternator! Apparently, there was some confusion in engineering from the start...

 

Tom Mooney

 

PS I would be curious to know if your engine is original. Part of your VIN should be stamped on the engine block just in front of the lifter valley cover front edge on the driver`s side. Lean over the top of the water manifold which bridges both heads and look straight down.

 

PSS Join the ROA. All this info and more is available to you as a benefit of membership

 

 

img383.jpg

img384 (2).jpg

  • Thanks 1
Link to post
Share on other sites

Another thing MOST don't know. It appears that the water pump pulley & the crank pulley are of the NON A/C type pulleys looking at the pics.

Non A/C pulleys spin at .9 engine speed whereas A/C pulleys spin at 1.1 engine speed. With the 20" clutch fan & the A/C pulleys it would make the coolant flow faster than non A/C set-ups. Supposed to cool better.

 

Tom T.

  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites
3 minutes ago, telriv said:

Another thing MOST don't know. It appears that the water pump pulley & the crank pulley are of the NON A/C type pulleys looking at the pics.

Non A/C pulleys spin at .9 engine speed whereas A/C pulleys spin at 1.1 engine speed. With the 20" clutch fan & the A/C pulleys it would make the coolant flow faster than non A/C set-ups. Supposed to cool better.

 

Tom T.

Posted above Tom.

Tom

Link to post
Share on other sites
17 minutes ago, telriv said:

Must be blind Tom. I don't see it mentioned anywhere???

There are no longer numbers associated with each post, at least on my laptop, but in my post above:

 

  " According to the parts book all the pulleys for the HD cooling option and AC are the same. This makes sense as the reduced diameter of the AC water pump pulley would combine with the extra fins on the AC water pump impeller and the larger radiator to produced greater coolant flow potential. "

 

Tom

Edited by 1965rivgs (see edit history)
Link to post
Share on other sites

I did some more digging in the `64 parts book and found an inconsistency...there is a listing for a fan "spacer" for the AC modification package. If the option originally included the fan clutch, as the sales description states, there would be no fan spacer.  Beginning to think the AC modification option was built as pictured.

Tom

  • Thanks 1
Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, 1965rivgs said:

  Well, isnt that interesting...I dont doubt that your car was originally built this way (although it is curious there was obviously a second belt running on your alternator pulley at some point since it was "new") but this arrangement is contrary to everything in the `64 Buick parts book and common sense.  The `65 Buick parts book is consistent with the `64. But obviously the AC modification was an unusual option so probably a challenge to the folks putting the cars together on the assembly line.

 

  According to the parts book all the pulleys for the HD cooling option and AC are the same. This makes sense as the reduced diameter of the AC water pump pulley would combine with the extra fins on the AC water pump impeller and the larger radiator to produced greater coolant flow potential. Also makes sense for the high output alternator to be driven with dual belts when it is heavily loaded rather than one as in the non AC single belt lower output system.

 

  However, I seem to recall that the `66 cars with AC mod are equipped similarly to your pic....so who knows? Maybe engineering decided to revise the option and the sales material and parts books were never modified accordingly?

 

  I would be very torn between leaving the belt/pulley system as is for historical accuracy (if it is, in fact, original) or changing over to the AC type pulley/belt system for efficiency.

 

  I`m attaching a couple of scans from the `64 Buick parts book. If you look closely you will see the pulley part numbers for the AC equipped cars in the belt diagram are the same part numbers as in the H.D. cooling illustration. Intersting to note that the engineers are leaving one of the grooves in the pulleys empty instead of adding a second belt to drive the alternator! Apparently, there was some confusion in engineering from the start...

 

Tom Mooney

 

PS I would be curious to know if your engine is original. Part of your VIN should be stamped on the engine block just in front of the lifter valley cover front edge on the driver`s side. Lean over the top of the water manifold which bridges both heads and look straight down.

 

PSS Join the ROA. All this info and more is available to you as a benefit of membership

 

 

img383.jpg

img384 (2).jpg

Hmm, in this picture it isn't the the Alternator & AC Bracket that is in Hearse's car, it is just the standard Alternator bracket.

Link to post
Share on other sites

It does have the ears for the mounting on the compressor . The stud on the cylinder head. It does have 2 holes on the lower portion of the bumper after having looked better but it looks like nothing was ever mounted there and thats not exactly what I would call a solid mounting point if one were to bolt a trailer hitch on there. 

Link to post
Share on other sites

The fan should be close the the edge of the shroud and and about half of the angle of the blade should be inside the shroud, not the entire fan.  The close fit ensures that the fan actually pulls air through the radiator and just doesn't let the air cavitate inside the shroud.  I don't know if the four blade fan is large enough in diameter or has enough pitch to do this.  The best way to make sure would be to find a 5 blade fan and mount it on a thermal clutch. That's my thoughts, hopefully others will chime in.  

 

Ed

Link to post
Share on other sites

Cool 64…Congtats on the trade & welcome 

 

Ed, is right. Get a five blade fan in order to play nicely with the fan shroud. Don’t forget a STANDARD fan clutch too. DONT let them sell u on an HD fan clutch. U will HATE it! Haha. I learned the hard way. I did a little write-up on this matter in my 65 Riv build thread.

 

Here’s a link with the basics on fan clutches.

 

http://www.haydenauto.com/upload/HaydenAuto/Documents/Cat_Hayden/2007-hayden-fan-clutch.pdf

 

oh…I have an aluminum 4 row radiator too & my fan shroud fit perfect. No mods. But someday I wanna sandwich those L shaped rubber pieces to either side of radiator that Ed mentioned earlier 

  • Thanks 1
Link to post
Share on other sites

I might add that as long as you don't have an a/c condenser in front of your radiator, you might not need the shroud and five blade fan.  The non a/c cars ran fine with just a four blade fan and no shroud.  If you run a shroud and five blade fan and don't have a condenser in front of your radiator, you'll be cool as a cucumber.

  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites
15 hours ago, RockinRiviDad said:

Cool 64…Congtats on the trade & welcome 

 

Ed, is right. Get a five blade fan in order to play nicely with the fan shroud. Don’t forget a STANDARD fan clutch too. DONT let them sell u on an HD fan clutch. U will HATE it! Haha. I learned the hard way. I did a little write-up on this matter in my 65 Riv build thread.

 

Here’s a link with the basics on fan clutches.

 

http://www.haydenauto.com/upload/HaydenAuto/Documents/Cat_Hayden/2007-hayden-fan-clutch.pdf

 

oh…I have an aluminum 4 row radiator too & my fan shroud fit perfect. No mods. But someday I wanna sandwich those L shaped rubber pieces to either side of radiator that Ed mentioned earlier 

Thank you sir! Love the old Riv we're sold! I will check out that write up here in just a little bit I appreciate the heads up on that . 

Link to post
Share on other sites
8 hours ago, RivNut said:

I might add that as long as you don't have an a/c condenser in front of your radiator, you might not need the shroud and five blade fan.  The non a/c cars ran fine with just a four blade fan and no shroud.  If you run a shroud and five blade fan and don't have a condenser in front of your radiator, you'll be cool as a cucumber.

 I guess I'll run the low drag current fan set up I have with the 4 blade fan and just put an 18 inch electric pusher up front to assist with idling duties. 

Link to post
Share on other sites

With that new aluminum radiator, I don't think that you'll have a problem anyway.  Try it first before going to the expense of installing the pusher.  Should you find that you need it, set up the pusher with a thermostatic switch so it only comes on in extreme situations.  

  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now
×
×
  • Create New...