m-mman Posted February 2, 2019 Share Posted February 2, 2019 (edited) 1958 Edsel Pacer 4 door hardtop - barn find stored 48 years Here is the story. In 1971 ‘grandpa’ retired and bought a 1958 Edsel as a project to keep him busy. He began by dismantling most of the mechanicals then lost interest (ability?) and left the car literally in a barn. Eventually he died and ‘dad’ inherited the car. Having no interest and better things to do, dad too left it sit. Finally dad dies and now the ‘son’ inherits it. His current interest is in settling the estate by selling the property where the car sits on a quick escrow, so it has to be out of the barn and off the property ASAP. I offer to try to find a good home for it so here it is at my house. 1958 Edsel Pacer 4 door hardtop. Last run 1970/71. Sitting in a barn for 48 years! Factory tri tone Sunset coral – Black – White. Power steering & brakes, radio, heater, back up lights, bumper guards. Shows 66,000 miles (likely correct) Straight, California car, no rust but does have enough dings, repaint and surface rust that it is unlikely that the original paint can be brought back. Five original coral wheels and the original jack. Front seat recovered, back seat original. Padded dash very decent. Drivers window cracked, other glass good. The bad news. Grandpa began dismantling it and lost a bunch of (replaceable) mechanical parts. All nuisance items, nothing that is unobtainable. No carburetor, generator, water pump, power steering pump, starter, torque converter. Treadle-Vac booster has been disassembled. Transmission removed from car, (but I do have it) motor hanging on its mounts. There is a box of loose stuff like nuts, bolts & linkages. As typical in these situations there are no keys it but it does have the original 1971 California title and registration so a California owner can reactivate the original black plates. Yeah, it is a project, but it is mostly all the mechanical stuff, not heavy body and interior. A great car for a starter hobbyist. I saved it, but I have NO ROOM for it. Can you give it a good home for $1500? Located in the Los Angeles, California area. NOTE: The transmission has now been put back in place (no converter) this means that then engine is secure, the cross member is now bolted in and the parking brake linkage is connected. Edited March 26, 2019 by m-mman addition work done (see edit history) 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
m-mman Posted February 2, 2019 Author Share Posted February 2, 2019 More pictures after we got it home and cleaned it up. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
m-mman Posted February 2, 2019 Author Share Posted February 2, 2019 Additional pictures 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kgreen Posted February 2, 2019 Share Posted February 2, 2019 wow! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zimm63 Posted February 2, 2019 Share Posted February 2, 2019 Sounds like an unfixable title problem, dating back three generations. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thehandleman Posted February 2, 2019 Share Posted February 2, 2019 looks solid! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
m-mman Posted February 2, 2019 Author Share Posted February 2, 2019 (edited) 2 hours ago, Zimm63 said: Sounds like an unfixable title problem, dating back three generations. No, not unfixable at all. Its very easy. 😎 There is a 1971 California registration card in the glove box in Grandpa's name, so he did have a title. Likely the 'pink slip' was placed in a secure spot so that it would not be lost. But then people either forgot where that was, or didnt recognize what car the pink slip was for. (BTW - having the registration document even allows someone in CA to reactivate the original black license plate) Same with the keys, they were likely put in a box or hung on a hook and when the time came to 'clean up' nobody recognized them and threw them away. Creating a current California title would be very easy but it would cost about $100 in California state fees and the lines at the California DMV have made the headlines as currently being 6-8 HOURS long! If the car was being offered for $15,000 I would put things on order. For $1500 it will be a learning experience for the new hobbyist. 😉 Edited February 2, 2019 by m-mman (see edit history) 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John_Mereness Posted February 2, 2019 Share Posted February 2, 2019 3 hours ago, Zimm63 said: Sounds like an unfixable title problem, dating back three generations. Title problems happen all the time - there is usually a Common Pleas Court process to resolve (cost a few 300-400 usually and quite of bit of time) - contact your Clerk of Courts or someone administrative at your DMV and inquire. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lebowski Posted February 2, 2019 Share Posted February 2, 2019 Can you please take a pic of the data plate or at least post the serial number of the car? A guy named Phil Skinner (who lives near you in Orange County), who is probably the world's foremost authority on the Edsel, keeps a registry of all of them and I know he would definitely like to have it. Thanks.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bloo Posted February 2, 2019 Share Posted February 2, 2019 (edited) These title threads are hilarious. Why can't I stay away? I'm like a moth drawn to light. There are two kinds of people in these threads. Those who have paid the guy at the dump $50 to bury a car with a bulldozer and those who haven't. Whether "no title" is a problem or not varies wildly by state. It isn't likely to change soon. Some Craigslist sellers: "No title, but no problem to get one" Half the potential buyers: "LOL nice try. Next!" Here in Washington, "no title" is less of a problem than it used to be, but it is still a giant pain in the ass and risky to boot. It definitely affects the value here. Last year a car I had lusted after since age 14 appeared on Craigslist in Connecticut. It was the right model, the right color, the right interior, and the right engine (a fairly unusual combination). It was an older repaint in the original color. It allegedly ran and drove. It had current tags. It was priced slightly below market. No, I don't think it was a scam. I was ready to drop everything and go there until I realized that Connecticut is a no-title state for older models. I am always flabbergasted that in the age of the Internet, when collector cars cross state lines all the time, where every car forum has a guy or two who can grab a car from far away and bring it to you, that people from the "easy" states still think a title is no big deal. Now, having said all that, the car in the original post is getting blown out for almost no money in a market (Los Angeles) where collector cars are expensive. It's not like he is trying to get top dollar out of it. Someone needs to go (with eyes wide open) and grab this. It is a seriously cool car! Edited February 2, 2019 by Bloo (see edit history) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
C Carl Posted February 2, 2019 Share Posted February 2, 2019 I know m-mman, (Jim). He is one of the most helpful, thorough, intelligent, accurate and selfless guys around. Obviously, he is just helping someone at an inconvenience to himself. (This is not the first time, that is just the kind of person he is). He COULD be spending his time working on his own late '20s Lincoln or Cadillac, or more modern iron, but here he is spending precious time to help two parties, one as yet unknown to him. Here's hoping you clear your space quickly , and that I visit you soon. -Cadillac Carl 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
m-mman Posted February 2, 2019 Author Share Posted February 2, 2019 Exactly Bloo, I think you understand. If my mother was needing a car and she saw an ad for a car that "didn't run" or "needed an engine" she would skip over it because she would have no idea how to even begin to deal with all the many problems and hurdles of making it operational. If there is any car collector who shys away from a nice car because they dont know how to make it run (in their part of the country) or perhaps because some bureaucrat in a government office has told them that that it is impossible to get the parts needed to make it run, then they should stick to the TV shows, they really arent a serious collector. If you are a REAL car guy (or gal) you need certain basic skills and understanding to enjoy the hobby. (especially at the AACA level, maybe not the Pebble Beach level) Basic mechanical understanding, knowledge that AutoZone, O'Reillieys and Pep Boys isnt always going to have the parts you need AND you also need to know how to work the system (in your part of the world) to deal with lost paperwork. Does anyone expect that a 50, 60, 70 year old car pulled from a long barn storage is going to start up and run? I dont. And I have never expected that a long parked car is going to have 'ready to transfer' paperwork either. Making the engine operational or making the title operational . . . just additional work along the path of a restoration. You would be surprised how many cars are turned away from auctions because the seller shows up and there is a 'title problem'. Missing numbers, no numbers on the car or (the worst) numbers that dont match the paperwork(!) You never see these cars because the auction companies tell the seller to just take it away because they dont want to hassle it. In actuality the non-matching/changed numbers cars SHOULD be impounded by the police. Sadly, most all of these problems are the result of the seller/restorer simply not correctly fixing the title. They did the mechanics, the paint and the interior, but they didn't fix the paperwork correctly. Yes we all started out not understanding how to fix a car or knowing where to get the parts to fix an ancient car, but we all learned how and are now better for it. There are some skills that you just have to have to enjoy the car hobby. If the car you are considering needs skills that you dont have, then I guess you just have to pass on it and keep looking. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
C Carl Posted February 2, 2019 Share Posted February 2, 2019 Hi Jim ! I see our postings crossed. Please give me a call when convenient for you. I am not using the old 408 number at the moment. 206-790-6912 is current. - CC Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
m-mman Posted February 8, 2019 Author Share Posted February 8, 2019 The family continued to dig through the estate and 'surprise' they found Grandpa's original pink slip (title). 🙂 So a rust free, iconic 1950s car, in a neat 1950s color, that now has a title. Is anybody interested in giving car this a home? 🙁 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
old car fan Posted February 8, 2019 Share Posted February 8, 2019 That's awesome deal,without title,now it has one 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Licespray Posted February 20, 2019 Share Posted February 20, 2019 If you were australia I would buy this in a heartbeat, it’s beautiful! I love the interior colours, the body shape. Seriously a nice looking car! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
m-mman Posted February 24, 2019 Author Share Posted February 24, 2019 Sadly it has yet to find a home in North America. I know that shipping is expensive. Is anyone interested in giving it a home at $1000 ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
C Carl Posted February 24, 2019 Share Posted February 24, 2019 2 hours ago, Dave Fields said: Hardly. Rrrrrrrrrrrrright ! I think the technical term for the title status is now : "Title in hand". Jim is an Edsel authority, and I expect he can be of further help to the purchaser. - Carl Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
r1lark Posted February 24, 2019 Share Posted February 24, 2019 A unique car for minimal entry price, great project if you can do a lot of the work yourself to bring it up to a fun driver. Maybe even update some of the mechanicals. Whoops, I didn't say that here Look at it - a four door hardtop! Very unique, too bad none of the pictures show a side view with all the windows down. A cool cruiser, load it up with a bunch of friends hanging (figuratively) out of the four open windows! In my opinion, a very under-appreciated but very attractive body style. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peter S Posted February 24, 2019 Share Posted February 24, 2019 you are doing a good turn in fostering this car. To me, late '50s cars lack the personality of older models, but this one has a lot of cachet! Won't bore you with the lament, "If only it was closer to the East Coast..." Peter S. Alexandria, VA / Northville, NY Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
neil morse Posted February 25, 2019 Share Posted February 25, 2019 I love the transmission push buttons in the hub of the steering wheel. As a kid, I remember this feature from when the Edsel was introduced. I thought it was really cool! Unfortunately, the general public didn't agree. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
m-mman Posted February 26, 2019 Author Share Posted February 26, 2019 On 2/24/2019 at 3:18 PM, Peter S said: Won't bore you with the lament, "If only it was closer to the East Coast..." Perhaps somebody could elaborate on this concept a little. Yes I am in California and Yes I have seen cars on ebay that were "geographically handicapped". Buy the car at the price offered, then add shipping, and you are quite underwater before you ever turn a wrench. Being in CA the idea of starting with a car that has any rust is irresponsible. Even if the numbers made sense I dont think there are any body men in CA with rust repair skills and experience that could actually perform some of the resurrections that I have seen documented on Eastern cars. BUT I have also seen more than a few Easterners spend wayyyyyy more on rust repair than they would ever spend on shipping a western car to the Right hand side of the country. I have moved a few cars a long distance and open vs closed and scheduled vs unscheduled is only like $1000 - $2000(?) What do rust repair and patch panels cost? Way more than that I would assume. Why dont more Easterners come out west to buy? I would like to get this car into a forever home for $1000. OK, then, lets say you step up and spend the full $2000 to ship it . . . . Is an iconic 50s car (that yes, does need all the mechanical repairs that any long parked car needs) not worth $3000??? If I moved it in an Easterly direction, I would have fuel and time involved and it would be in a car corral at $3000. Would it be worth $3000 if it were 50 miles from home? What am I missing? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peter S Posted February 27, 2019 Share Posted February 27, 2019 Excellent points about net cost. I purchased my Hudson from a seller in Wyoming and had it transported to the Metro DC area. It was no restored trailer queen. In fact, it had been stripped nude by somebody who had apparently gotten a gallon of aircraft paint remover for Christmas and then crudely resprayed in primer that had to be stripped in turn. But the important thing was that it was rust-free (except for a modicum of the surface sort). I came out way ahead. But that was 20 years ago. I'm thinking that $1000 or even $2000 is a bit optimistic for a coast-to-coast haul, but maybe I'm out of touch with the marketplace. Definitely it is a good deal for someone closer, Peter S. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
m-mman Posted February 27, 2019 Author Share Posted February 27, 2019 2 hours ago, Peter S said: But that was 20 years ago. I'm thinking that $1000 or even $2000 is a bit optimistic for a coast-to-coast haul, but maybe I'm out of touch with the marketplace. Definitely it is a good deal for someone closer, It isnt a Full Classic or an open car. https://www.uship.com/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peter S Posted February 27, 2019 Share Posted February 27, 2019 (edited) True - rates increase spectacularly with closed transportation. This car is very restoration-worthy and the discussion should focus on "how" this can happen and not "why" it might be difficult. There's a sub-forum on transport that was very useful to me recently, with good practical tips. Edited February 27, 2019 by Peter S unclear language (see edit history) 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
49 maxine Posted February 27, 2019 Share Posted February 27, 2019 On 2/2/2019 at 5:16 AM, Zimm63 said: Sounds like an unfixable title problem, dating back three generations. In Washington they have a delayed title which means you have to post bond, but will get a clear title later .Unknown lenght of time, think it was two years. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bloo Posted February 27, 2019 Share Posted February 27, 2019 Unless something has changed lately, you have to notify the previous owner at whatever address he had, if he doesn't respond, then you get to buy it license tags for three consecutive years, and at the end of that, if the previous owner hasn't come back and claimed it, then Washington will sell you a title. Also, I don't think it is a bond in Washington to initiate the process. Isn't it just a large nonrefundable fee? I guess thats ok for a rusty shell if it's worth enough to you. I might not want to sink much money in some car for that first three years while the previous owner could still come back and claim it. None of that matters with the Edsel in this thread. It has a title now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fleetwood Meadow Posted March 23, 2019 Share Posted March 23, 2019 Did anyone buy this car? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
m-mman Posted March 26, 2019 Author Share Posted March 26, 2019 (edited) Nope 😞 Surprised that I cant find a home for it. A local Edsel guy who buys anything available will take it but he has never put anything together and everything sits outside. For all the naysayers who are afraid of a little old car paperwork, It now has the California title (pink slip) and registration from 1971. Having these means that it can be resurrected in California with the original black plates for no additional fees. . I have also stabbed the transmission back in. (no converter) rebolted the cross member and attached the parking brake. This stabilized the engine. Its all ready to load and ship to a new home. Edited March 26, 2019 by m-mman (see edit history) 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
plymouthcranbrook Posted March 27, 2019 Share Posted March 27, 2019 Regarding shipping costs i had a Kia Soul shipped from Mass. to NE Il. enclosed for about $600 two yeas ago. Good rates are available but you have too look. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
m-mman Posted April 18, 2019 Author Share Posted April 18, 2019 (edited) The gift that keeps giving, the seller was digging through his grandfather's papers and found the owner's manual. It is still available. I have no space, it is sitting outside. I bolted the transmission back in (no converter) reattached the cross member and replaced the bolts grandpa removed from the steering. It is now ready to easily load and transport. Cant someone please give this car a home and keep it from deteriorating? Edited April 18, 2019 by m-mman (see edit history) 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trulyvintage Posted April 19, 2019 Share Posted April 19, 2019 (edited) Interesting comments about shipping a non op roller that has an engine dropped into place and unsecured - no responsible carrier will put that on an open trailer - it is a missile waiting to be launched. Good luck finding West Coast to East Coast vehicle transport for something like this at the 30 to 50 cent per mile price range folks claim ..... Multi car open carriers are not equipped with winches. Jim Edited April 19, 2019 by Trulyvintage (see edit history) 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fleetwood Meadow Posted April 19, 2019 Share Posted April 19, 2019 When I had my Cadillac brought from Washington to Rhode Island it didn’t run. They used a local flatbed to pick it up off the ground then they rolled it onto the multi-car trailer. Cost about $1700. It can be done. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peter S Posted April 20, 2019 Share Posted April 20, 2019 $1700 doesn't buy much rust work anymore - so many advantages to a west coast import! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
m-mman Posted April 21, 2019 Author Share Posted April 21, 2019 Yeah, I brought that up earlier. Rust repair vs.shipping. . . . Interesting how when there was no title the discussion was "OMG getting a title is just too difficult to fool with!" Then the seller found the (original) title and the discussion of the difficulty in shipping a car pops up. "Its too expensive", You cant ship a non-running car" Folks, the car needs a good home. I know that every collector car advertisement I look at I always add shipping cost to the asking price and see if it makes sense for me. For this car I am offering it basically just for the cost of shipping. In fact if somebody could convince me that they would actually give it a caring home I would probably just give it to them. (and all they have to pay is the shipping) I know it is not a muscle car. It is not a convertible. It is not a valuable car. BUT it is one of the most iconic and recognizable cars ever produced. Beyond the repairable mechanics, it is in very nice condition. OK if you dont like 4 doors. OK if you think Edsels are ugly. OK if you think a 'pink' car is a girl's car, but maybe you can just be honest with yourself, stop making excuses and admit that you are just not interested in this particular car. I said that it was a starter car and perhaps you are a more advanced hobbyist. That is fine, just be honest. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jason G Posted April 21, 2019 Share Posted April 21, 2019 Wow.... I am a total noob but I would dearly love to give this gal a home in South Carolina! She is begging to be helped along. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fleetwood Meadow Posted April 22, 2019 Share Posted April 22, 2019 M-man, help me fully understand who is selling this car. I know that the owner died, and the family was throwing the car away. You stepping in and said I’ll take the car from you. Did they sign over the car to you? If you are getting rid of the car for them are they or are you signing a bill of sales? Essentially I’m asking about the legal ownership and authority to release the car to someone else in a way that they can legally register the car in their own state. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
m-mman Posted April 22, 2019 Author Share Posted April 22, 2019 Complete and full ownership of this vehicle has been passed to me. I have full legal title to the vehicle. I am telling the story of the car in an effort to describe the car's provenance. . . . 3 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeC5 Posted April 28, 2019 Share Posted April 28, 2019 I am amazed that this car has not sold yet. Deepinaharta SoCal car culture there must be someone for whom transporting the car will not be a big issue. If I were within a day's drive I'd be all over it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
m-mman Posted April 29, 2019 Author Share Posted April 29, 2019 (edited) Yeah as discussed above . . . . . 'if only. . . .' I took the car in but it is (sadly) slowly overstaying its welcome. I need the space for my other projects, some type of clearance will happen this summer one way or anther. Edited April 29, 2019 by m-mman (see edit history) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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