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Generational Trends in Classic Car Collecting


MarkV

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32 minutes ago, 1912Staver said:

Here is one way out in the burbs not that far from where I live. Anything closer to Vancouver proper will make your eyes water.  Small old building, not much land 1.5 million. 

https://www.loopnet.com/Listing/20728-Fraser-Hwy-Langley-BC/14839093/

 

How does this compare to your area ?

 

Real estate is crazy here now too.

I bought the commercial property in about 1986 from a guy that was going to loose it to the county for unpaid taxes.

I didn't know at the time that he had terminal cancer, but my very low offer was accepted and it all went to his creditors.

The right place at the right time? Yes, I didn't really think it would happen, but he was just happy to get his ducks in a row before he left.

 

I've been trying to buy the land next to my house for many years.

First time I missed out the owner (and neighbor for many years) sold it to some fast talking real estate guy, who of coarse wanted more than I could pay.

But it sold and this owner promised me that I could have the first chance, I will tell you that he made a hefty profit because I am the only guy that would be willing to over pay for it.

So I did over pay because its the place I want to be.

But I am now in mid construction of my last new home.

These are the kinds of things that drive up all the nearby properties, I don't have a problem with that as I am here to stay and my kids can do what they want with it later.

 

On another note, I get crazy offers on my commercial property all the time. I would be a fool to sell it even though it would make me comfortable for as long as I would last.

The only trouble is that there would be a HIUGE capitol gain, I figure about 25% tax liability on gains here in Oregon.

That goes to current cost basis when I die so that big gain wont be there for the kids to think about.

 

Edited by JACK M (see edit history)
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1986 I was just going back to university after deciding I did not want to be a auto mechanic all my life.  If I had of been able to buy anything commercial in those days I would likewise be in a very good position today. Even my pretty marginal house I bought in 1993 is worth quite a bit due to land value however if I sold where would I live ? Everything here  and in fact Western Canada as a whole is sky high. Unlike the western U.S. there isn't a nice small town every 50 miles, Just endless mountains and forest until you get to the interior and then only a little cheaper than Vancouver's far suburbs like where I live. After costs no further ahead but hundreds of miles away from your former life {and my Wife's job, she is 5 years younger so retirement is about 5 years away for her}.

 Greg

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We seem to have this discussion about the future/health of "the hobby" quite a bit around here. I think anyone's perspective on this is a function of how they define "the hobby". If you are looking at a narrow slice, like Prewar cars (which I love and have two of) then there is reason to be pessimistic. I prefer to look at it in the most broad sense, which is people/activities involving motor vehicles. There are so many more options for pursuing an interest in cars then there were 20 years ago. I often find myself needing to choose between more then one event. And while we like to complain about the car shows on Discovery, the amount of quality automotive content on YouTube will fill your free time easily. And while car magazines aren't what they used to be, the internet is full of great content.

 

I get that the economics of "the hobby" are challenging. I'm a Gen-Xer who couldn't afford to own a second, fun car until I was in my 30's. I found other ways to satisfy my car-lust. I started by collecting auto books. As I got more money, I played with motorcycles. I always found events to go to meet other enthusiasts and see cars. My point is, if you think there is a problem with "the hobby" it might be that you need to find other ways to enjoy it.

Edited by Buick64C (see edit history)
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12 hours ago, alsancle said:

So when we are talking artwork,  everybody knows who the old masters are what their paintings represent.   Here is a hint,  its not a bunch of dogs playing poker.

 

In the car world,   big "C" Classic means something too,  and it isn't an 84 Buick Skyhawk.

 

Too me,  almost everything built after 1972 is a group of dogs playing poker.    Talking about big C Classics and 1980s anything in the same breadth is just  wrong.

 

I would love a Sonnet III,   73-4 SS454,  80 Z28 350/4speed,   78 W6 Trans-Am, etc.   One of these days I might stumble on to the right car and own one and will be thrilled,  but I will never use the word classic to describe any one of them.

Well said. In music as in art.

Would you like to hear Classical Music when the Sun Valley Symphony plays this summer, or Rock Music from Bob Seger when he played in Boise a few days ago? ?

 

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I decided not to be a mechanic about the same time I found out that computer rooms were air conditioned and had to stay clean.

 

Bought my house more than thutty yar for about 2.2x my income. When I retired Zillow said was the same. Have a mortgage because at 3% (tax deductible) my 401K is growing faster and being fixed, is a hedge against inflation. Have no loans or debit other than mortgage. Have a credit card for Amazon and eBay but is kept paid off.

 

Only really spendy on three things: computers, tools, and cars. Just bought a new DD, a TOL DOHC-6 Caddy with 50k miles for $13k.   Am now learning OBD-II and Tech-2.

 

Do not spend much else when alone except for cats. Sam's Club, Mart at Wal, and Family Market provide most other needs. (And Mobil 1 is on sale now gas was $2.209 yesterday).

 

ps I always open the door for a lady. I appreciate the view.

 

pps I have both classical and Bob Seger and 30GB of other things on my phone (part of reason all of my cars have handsfree) "Night Moves" and "Layla" (Eric Clapton.) should be classics.

Edited by padgett (see edit history)
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I do believe tastes change. I’m 24 now and I own a 91 Reatta, but I’m also a big fan of late 30s-50s cars. I’m a bit all over the place for that era but I’m interested. There’s some other later dates mixed in it too. When I was in high school  I really loved 65 mustangs. And was hell bent on getting one. Now I don’t really look at them when I see them.

I like rarer things now. Every cruise in night you see tons of 55-57 bel airs, corvettes and mustangs. But how many times do you see a reatta or something Prewar. I know of three other guys around my age that have classic cars. One has a 1990 Nissan 300z, one has three 70s Datsuns, and I met a guy who has a 1914 model t. So there’s totally no categories for age and cars you like. Said before in their thread but if it interests you and you can afford it go for it. 

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Another thing to consider.  In the past, people kept their cars, even after they were “done” with them.  Often the reason an older collector has a few cars is because he or she has had them forever.  This doesn’t apply to everyone, but does many.  It is much more common for them to keep their cars instead of trading them in.  I see it at work all the time.  That also comes back to the space issue.  

 

Sentimentality also gets lost.  It used to be a big deal to be handed down and take care of a parent’s or grandparent’s car that they worked so hard for.  Not so much anymore.  Now people want the cash to blow on unneeded stainless steel appliances, phones, and TVs that depreciate every day they exist.

 

It’s all part of the ever-changing society that we are all part of.

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Well I am into 1940s and 1970s and some 1980s luxury cars. This is mostly due to the fact that this is what I grew up around with my WWII grandfather born in 1916. The earlier cars don’t do much for me because sadly they can’t be enjoyed here in ca due to the insane traffic (I only take my 21 out twice a year) even my forties cars have a hard time so they don’t get out much but they are started weekly. 50s cars do nothing for me except the 58 imperial and the Mark II. 60s cars are so common and not exciting (I own a 66 mustang which was my first car). My tastes now in car buying are luxury 70s and 80s. I have the Seville 77, 2 reattas, and now my 81 Imperial. I feel that if I am going to buy a classic I want to keep up with traffic and have something super comfortable to drive and the nice part? I find great deals on these mostly under $2k and they are nice and clean usually original or second elderly owner and they get a lot of looks. 

 

As as far as cars getting passed down/sentimentality my 21 Chevy, and 41 dodge came through 3 generations, the Lincoln was my grandpas and I bought it back. The caddy is a clone of my grandpas and that is why I bought it.

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Edited by MarkV (see edit history)
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7 minutes ago, Dave Fields said:

Now I'm wondering why I have my old stuff.

You have your old stuff for the same reason alot of us do.  A hellcat will never offer the same feel as a 29 Chrysler or a 42 Packard.  Sure it's fast as hell,  which you can really only use on a track,  which I'm sure are few and far between that will actually let you run it.  Anything over 85 on the interstate and you are a target.  Even at 70 you might be a target just for a cop that wants a little look see if you are driving a hellcat. 

I've had at the same time a 36 Chrysler convertible,  A 32 ford Higboy roadster,  A fuel injected 60 corvette and a 46 Plymouth convertible.  The Mopars were stock but mechanically all rebuilt.  The Vette was stock but Chevies top performance for the day with a solid lifter engine and 4 speed and the Highboy I built,  so it was in great mechanical shape and drove well.  If I wanted to tear up the road,  I drove the Vette, I would run it in third to 60 or so just to listen to the factory offroad exhaust and get on and off it in the corners to feel the pull of the engine but often I just wanted to tour around with the top down with those little flat sixes just humming along.  Ironically same windy back road.    Each has it's own feel and that's why we own them.  

Even if you could trade a couple of your old cars (the ones you really like) for a Hellcat (an even trade where value was the same)  would you do it?  I wouldn't,  unless it was a couple of cars I was looking to get rid of and knew of a buyer for the Hellcat. 

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13 hours ago, auburnseeker said:

 A hellcat will never offer the same feel as a 29 Chrysler or a 42 Packard.  Sure it's fast as hell,  which you can really only use on a track,  which I'm sure are few and far between that will actually let you run it.    

 

Each has it's own feel and that's why we own them.  

 

It highly depends what you expect out of it. 

 

A brand new Demon or Hellcat doesn't offer the same feel as a brand new Subaru WRX STi Type-R, either, but both cars excel in their own way.  A '29 Chrysler and a '42 Packard 180 are just as different.  A stock '42 Packard actually is drivable on a modern freeway where a fully stock '29 Chrysler in modern traffic is taking a bit of a chance.

 

Craig

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It all depends on where you live...................

 

 

that also being a choice.

 

prob could sell your home in Vancouver and Buy a nice 1913 Mercer, move to Virginie and live a modest life.

 

all choices we make. Most on this board would NEVER be able to buy that Mercer, but you sure could if you wtd it bad enough............

 

so whats to talk about? think Ill get get a scoop of eggnog ice cream or maybe rum raisin!  :)

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When the discussion turns to affordability and such I kind of tune out.  Everyone's financial situations are unique, as well as just how much, regardless of income, one may spend on a hobby.  Along the same lines, cars are available in just about every era or subsection of the hobby in a wide price range.  I think interests are more of a factor than income, at least for some folks.

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2 hours ago, mercer09 said:

 

It all depends on where you live...................

 

 

that also being a choice.

 

prob could sell your home in Vancouver and Buy a nice 1913 Mercer, move to Virginie and live a modest life.

 

all choices we make. Most on this board would NEVER be able to buy that Mercer, but you sure could if you wtd it bad enough............

 

so whats to talk about? think Ill get get a scoop of eggnog ice cream or maybe rum raisin!  :)

 

I am in the burbs so it would have to be a so-so L head Sporting.  Just one little hitch, I am Canadian so I can't just move to Virginie . From what I am told Canadians can't be in the U.S. for more than 4 months each year if they are doing so year after year. 6 months less a day for a year in isolation. Your plan would work if I moved to a village in Newfoundland or one of those tiny farming towns in Saskatchewan where town council gives you a house for moving there. Except either plan would most likely trigger a divorce and I would end up in a mobile home  with a Yugo.

 

Greg in Canada,,,, but Virginie sure sounds tempting

Edited by 1912Staver (see edit history)
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yes, I was being facetious Staver........... didnt expect you to move to the Yukon over a car.

 

Just that the same topic comes up for a few yrs now on affordability. We are all on different levels as to affordability and as Steve mentions, what we want to afford. some on here are 25 and some 80. Diff stages of life to get into various cars.

 

my only point is, life doesnt need to hold you back, if you truly desire something.

 

The Miller brothers up in New England loved their Stutz cars, but died like paupers........... their choice and I dont think less of them for that.

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31 minutes ago, 1912Staver said:

From what I am told Canadians can't be in the U.S. for more than 4 months each year

 

I heard they have to carry a small amount of native soil with them. That is about how long it takes to absorb airborne particles and dilute.

 

One friend was over here from Fort Erie and I asked if he carried the soil in a bag around his neck. He replied "No, in my ears."

Bernie

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55 minutes ago, 1912Staver said:

 

 From what I am told Canadians can't be in the U.S. for more than 4 months each year if they are doing so year after year. 6 months less a day for a year in isolation. Your plan would work if I moved to a village in Newfoundland or one of those tiny farming towns in Saskatchewan where town council gives you a house for moving there. Except either plan would most likely trigger a divorce and I would end up in a mobile home  with a Yugo.

 

Greg in Canada,,,, but Virginie sure sounds tempting

 

I am a little bit south of Virginia in North Carolina. Canadians can get a visa to live here long term, or they can decide to move here and become US citizens. My preacher is actually a Canadian citizen here on a Visa. Come on down, there are lots of northern transplants here.

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Could I entice anyone to rural or small-town Pennsylvania?

Trade in your $800,000 small California or British Columbia

house for a bigger house, a collection full of of cars, and

a bank account full of money!  Here's a typical example which

I found on the internet.

 

Newer house of over 4000 square feet;  outbuilding for cars;  2 scenic acres.

This is quite typical, not any special bargain, and the cost is $299,000.

(Or buy a smaller, well-kept older house in town for under $100,000.)

Selling your $800,000 bungalow will give you an extra $500,000 in spending money.

 

1963 Dividing Ridge Rd, Coudersport, PA 16915

1963 Dividing Ridge Rd, Coudersport, PA 16915

Edited by John_S_in_Penna (see edit history)
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Believe me it is at times tempting. My Great Grandfather was born in Iowa however most of the family moved to Canada in about 1910.  I have always felt a strong kinship with the U.S.  Having said that I have just spent my working life paying into the Canadian health care system and I expect that at some time in my life I am going to need the service. A good friend and all round old car guy just passed away far to young from Cancer.  The Canadian system provided a very intensive and expensive treatment of his disease. I suspect he would have been way over the max payable by most U.S. insurance providers. It bought him several more years which he used to the fullest. He drove his Model A pickup less than 6 weeks before his passing.

   About 30 years ago my Wife and I seriously considered a move to Oregon. However the economy picked up here in British Columbia, we became properly  established in our careers and things generally worked out. It's only the last decade or so that Western Canada has gotten so out of whack although the middle class slide slowly started several years previous.

  Greg

  

 

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7 hours ago, 1912Staver said:

Except either plan would most likely trigger a divorce and I would end up in a mobile home  with a Yugo.

Yeah but pretty soon that Yugo will be an antique.  Gremlins and pintos are even accepted now,  so it's only a matter of time.   Finding parts for it might be the hard part,  but you'll have to convert it to electric in a few years anyways as gasoline will be a luxury and you won't be able to afford it. 

It could be worse,  they could make you drive a LADA or Seat.  The even uglier stepsisters of the Yugo.

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On 2/3/2019 at 3:03 PM, Dave Fields said:

Younger people tend not to be collectors of anything but to say they aren't interested in automobiles is ridiculous. 

 

My favorite way to experience this is to take a friend who has never been in an old car for a ride around the neighborhood.  The friend will invariably comment that everyone is staring at the car; that most people stop and point at it; and  that most people break into big smiles when they see it.  It's especially true of little kids, especially boys, who usually proclaim out loud something like, "Mom, look at that car!"   Whether people will collect the cars is different from whether they like to see them: They do, at least in my experience.  As a friend once put it to me, "Your car is a happy-mobile -- it makes everyone who sees it happy!"

 

Edited by 1935Packard (see edit history)
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7 hours ago, John_S_in_Penna said:

Could I entice anyone to rural or small-town Pennsylvania?

Trade in your $800,000 small California or British Columbia

house for a bigger house, a collection full of of cars, and

a bank account full of money!  Here's a typical example which

I found on the internet.

 

Newer house of over 4000 square feet;  outbuilding for cars;  2 scenic acres.

This is quite typical, not any special bargain, and the cost is $299,000.

(Or buy a smaller, well-kept older house in town for under $100,000.)

Selling your $800,000 bungalow will give you an extra $500,000 in spending money.

 

1963 Dividing Ridge Rd, Coudersport, PA 16915

1963 Dividing Ridge Rd, Coudersport, PA 16915

 

Very tempting indeed. A place like that even in my semi rural neighborhood would be 1.75 - 2 million Canadian .  if it was 5 acres and therefore eligible for farm status and much reduced taxes closer to 2.5 million.

 

 

Greg

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1 hour ago, 1935Packard said:

 

My favorite way to experience this is to take a friend who has never been in an old car for a ride around the neighborhood.  The friend will invariably comment that everyone is staring at the car; that most people stop and point at it; and  that most people break into big smiles when they see it.  It's especially true of little kids, especially boys, who usually proclaim out loud something like, "Mom, look at that car!"   Whether people will collect the cars is different from whether they like to see them: They do, at least in my experience.  As a friend once put it to me, "Your car is a happy-mobile -- it makes everyone who sees it happy!"

 

 

You remind me of something that happened 40 years ago. I'd stopped at a local gas station to fill up my 1910 REO. On the other side of the pump I could see a little kid... maybe 10 at the time, jumping up and down. He pointed at the REO and shouted to his father "Dad, IS THAT A CAR?" That little kid must be 50 now and who knows if he was inspired.

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4 hours ago, auburnseeker said:

Yeah but pretty soon that Yugo will be an antique.  Gremlins and pintos are even accepted now,  so it's only a matter of time.   Finding parts for it might be the hard part,  but you'll have to convert it to electric in a few years anyways as gasoline will be a luxury and you won't be able to afford it. 

It could be worse,  they could make you drive a LADA or Seat.  The even uglier stepsisters of the Yugo.

Perhaps the factory that I read was full of unfinished Yugos in the former Yugoslavia back at the end of the Bosnian war is still there. Parts Cheap?

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Please don't become to overwhelmed with pity for those of us who live in the PNW. We are not trapped by any circumstance, other then we love it here.

 

IMO people are either car people or they aren't. For most of my seventy five years I've been one. Was I hard wired, or did the post war environment cause the malady? I can't really say, but I still remember at age four or five the two days that I saw my first Cord convertible, and my first Jaguar XK120. It would be years before I was able to find out what the Cord was, but the image of that car was etched into my brain, like a photo. So the next time I saw one, it was an epiphany.

 

As a young man I never felt hamstrung financially. Worked my way through college working nights on a green chain in a sawmill. I put off collecting until I could see that I was going to be able to finish school. When I began collecting I bought what I could afford. Only once in my life have I taken out a loan to buy a car, and it wasn't a new car. Rented space in a chicken barn served as a garage, when I ran out of garage space. Was I blessed or damned, you be the judge.

 

I have decent  collection, but I am no longer an active collector, however I never say never. I no longer suffer remorse for passing up a car that ten of fifteen years ago I would have been all over. When it's my time, I have a young soul mate who is as much a car person as am I. She says that she will be more then happy to deal with the mess that I've created. i did it my way, life is good!

 

I believe that many of us were car people first, before we were old car people. In my case being a car person first has it pluses and minuses. It has allowed me to move from ere to era, car manufacturer to car manufacturer, and from country to country seamlessly without prejudice. In other words I like them all. I feel a bit of sadness for people who limit themselves. But I have hope for all car people. Unlike the epiphany that I experienced years ago, my immersion came gradually. I also don't feel the need to own everything that I love. I feel fortunate to be able to get equally excited when seeing a 1981 imperial, an original 1975 Chrysler Cordoba, 1962 Jaguar XKE, 1953 Studebaker Starliner, 1949 Cadillac Sedanette, 1932 Graham Blue Streak, 1925 Locomobile touring, or a 1914 Pierce Arrow-66 hp (any model). 

 

It's your hobby so enjoy, but do it your way!

 

 

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13 hours ago, Buffalowed Bill said:

Please don't become to overwhelmed with pity for those of us who live in the PNW. We are not trapped by any circumstance, other then we love it here.

 

Yup, It is nice however to know that there is a warmer place to winter just a day or so down the road.

I try to take a week or two every year.

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Certainly not looking for pity. I also like life in the PNW.  However it seems that whenever the subject of the cost of hobby cars  frequently there comes up the theme of " if people just managed their money better there would be no problem regarding hobby finances". 

  I am just trying to point out that where you live and what stage you are in in your life can make a huge difference in disposable income and hobby affordability. In some cases much more than the difference between sound financial management and careless lifestyle spending. Likewise youth, career mainstream / family responsibility years, retirement.

 

  Greg in Canada

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On ‎2‎/‎3‎/‎2019 at 3:03 PM, Dave Fields said:

Younger people tend not to be collectors of anything but to say they aren't interested in automobils is ridiculous. Talked to a couple of guys at the local monthly car swap meet. They own Hellcats. Will do almost 200 mph. Bought used for under $50000. Has AC. Now I'm wondering why I have my old stuff.

 

 

That's why I have my Formula Ford race car. Very cheap racing {it's from the early 1980's} / satisfy the need for speed without risking arrest , vehicle confiscation, uninsurability due to driving offences etc.

What's the point of owning a car like a Hellcat  that when used at anything near its potential the driver places himself at risk of serious legal consequences. 

  Many of us like a fast car, but these days the only long term solution is to find the form of local organized, amature racing that fits your budget and you enjoy. My FF cost under $10,000.00 and is as economical to use as can be in racing.  Just a little 1600 Ford Cortina / early Pinto engine {can be blueprinted but otherwise must remain totally stock} but very simple and lightweight. And they go surprisingly well.

 

Greg in Canada

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