Jerry with a Packard

27 Packard, Oh, to get it started.

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I must disagree on the oil filter. Bypass filters are very effective, they filter out finer particles of dirt and sludge than a full flow filter. They do filter all the oil, just not all at once. It takes 15 minutest to 30 minutes for all the oil to go through the filter.

 

Like a pool filter that only takes a small amount of water at a time, but will filter a murky pool sparkling clean in a day or 2.

 

If it was mine I would not neglect the oil filter.

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Of course, I will look as to why there is no filter. I'll need to find where the supply tube comes from or would have come from. I think the bracket on the oil filler throat is to hold one end of the oil filter. There are no marks indicating there ever was a filter.

 

BTW, I can see the valves thru the spark plug hole, if I contort myself just right.

 

Thanks Rusty, Jerry

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Be aware that an electric fuel pump will deliver too much pressure for the carburetor if it is a vacuum tank car. In general, a pressure reducer needs to be installed to bring it back to about 1 psi or less, the pressure of about 2' (vacuum to carb) of fuel on the float valve in the carburetor. Otherwise, the carburetor will flood and it will drown in petrol. They worked perfectly well on the vacuum tank for many years and it should again.

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Another note about the fuel pressure regulator.

Please use a decent one, not a super cheap, poorly made one from your local chain auto parts store like this one.

fpr2_1.3474.jpg

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Posted (edited)

Here is a discussion item and I am about to say some things that get people all fired up, but after they put 100K miles on a variety of CCCA cars over 30 years then .....:  I disagree with pulling bearings caps to measure on something of this age - sometimes on original engines you just best be happy or you best be prepared to fully rebuild (aka sometimes messing with things makes marginal turn to bad really quick).  Sometimes I do and sometimes I do not check - just depends.     There is of course the unknown, but doubtful this particular packard car was dropped off the road for bad bearings or piston pins (perhaps yes, but ....).  You will be able to tell via sound and oil pressure.  Also, keep in mind when really hot (and running like 40 or 50 weight) you may not have much oil pressure - it is not pressure as much as it is delivery (you need delivery).  Finally, given your not knowing what to look for it perhaps just leave alone.

 

As to oil filter - there are plenty of cars that did not have them in the time period (and that is fine).  the reason why it is missing is because they were hard to get at certain periods of time and still a challenge today matched to being quite expensive.

 

I would do first oil change within say an hour or so of driving.  Then i would change again say after 50 miles, then another 50.  Then every 3 years or 1000 miles whichever comes first. 

 

Spend some time wire toothbrushing or.  your water passage.

 

Radiator probably needs some help too.

 

Have to go back on the thread - still not sure why electric pump is needed (for priming after long periods of storage yes, but not driving).

Edited by John_Mereness (see edit history)

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On 6/27/2019 at 1:06 AM, zepher said:

Another note about the fuel pressure regulator.

Please use a decent one, not a super cheap, poorly made one from your local chain auto parts store like this one.

fpr2_1.3474.jpg

I have had several of these go bad over time - they sort of just one day leak from everywhere. 

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I also disagree with RTV on both sides of the gasket - one side is fine (do it off the car and spend some time and then rub a little into the seam (when all dry reinstall pan). 

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Once you find gunked up oil in the engine, the next suspects are the rear axle and transmission. 

 

Time to also start working the clutch and make sure not stuck.

 

U-joints will need a careful review too.

Sidenote:  A lot of odd style grease fittings out there - a lot of cars I unscrewed them and had a modern fitting to screw in - then greased and then put old fitting back in.

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Posted (edited)

Focus on getting it garage running first, then running up and down the drive, then around the block, then around the block 5 times or a mile or so, and then ... - you get the idea.

Edited by John_Mereness (see edit history)

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Yes on running it in the garage first, then driveway. Baby steps. Especially since I live up a steep dirt road. Brakes work?

Marvel Mystery Oil should be an additive or used straight??

Visible water passageways are cleaning up better than I thought. Still, more to do. Plan on checking out radiator.

Engine moves very smoothly. Keeping an open mind. The manual I have is for a year after mine. It shows an oil filter.

Don't plan on using electric fuel pump. I may try to fill up vacuum tank manually first.

Yes as to changing oil after an hour (in which case I may not be too worried about oil quality). Probably same for coolant.

Thank you JM.

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Posted (edited)

Marvel Mystery Oil is an additive and I think there is a formula on the bottle of how to add to your gas and how to add to your oil, but if not like 1/3 of a quart can/bottle/jar in oil and 1/3 quart in gas (about 3- 5 rattle can lids to start).

 

The more you add the more it will probably smoke out exhaust, but in laid up cars a little smoking is fine. 

 

 

Edited by John_Mereness (see edit history)

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Posted (edited)

An electric pump to prime is fine (done it on every car i have had a vacuum tank on) - that being said though, they can be really dangerous on cars with vacuum tanks as the vacuum tank is vented and usually the vent aims at something like the exhaust manifold or ... matched to carbs having needle and seats not designed for more than 1lb to 1.5 lb pressure of gravity. 

 

You can actually use the vacuum tank as a "gas can" more or less while testing on car - it will hold maybe 3 minutes of gas (RR would run about 7 minutes and it had an over-sized vacuum tank with a half gallon or so reserve).

Edited by John_Mereness (see edit history)

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Posted (edited)

You are going to stir up a lot of rust chips in cooling system - you may want to consider such as a Gano Filter for the top radiator hose (Summit racing has and ... - do a search). 

 

Again, perhaps an Evapo Rust start to a thread - I heard it from Edinmass I believe who likes the product. 

Edited by John_Mereness (see edit history)

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2 hours ago, John_Mereness said:

Here is a discussion item and I am about to say some things that get people all fired up, but after they put 100K miles on a variety of CCCA cars over 30 years then .....:  I disagree with pulling bearings caps to measure on something of this age - sometimes on original engines you just best be happy or you best be prepared to fully rebuild (aka sometimes messing with things makes marginal turn to bad really quick).  Sometimes I do and sometimes I do not check - just depends.     There is of course the unknown, but doubtful this particular packard car was dropped off the road for bad bearings or piston pins (perhaps yes, but ....).  You will be able to tell via sound and oil pressure.  Also, keep in mind when really hot (and running like 40 or 50 weight) you may not have much oil pressure - it is not pressure as much as it is delivery (you need delivery).  Finally, given your not knowing what to look for it perhaps just leave alone.

 

 

With TOTAL respect for John, as he anticipated, I disagree with this. Within the literal construction of this proposition lies the logical defeat of his premise. However, since I have to unload 2-3 tons of machinery and materials right now, with more to move later, my counter argument will have to wait. You will not be starting your engine for well into next month, not even by Argentine Independence day. This is not a time sensitive matter. So, 'round here at the ranch : first things first. Here's hoping for no injuries, and no damage to heavy precision tools.   

                                                             I'll be back in a day or 3.    -    Carl 

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Posted (edited)

I am not sure why one would add another oil to a perfectly good engine oil. It will change the viscosity. Oils already contain a lot of additives. What is in this mystery oil that is not in 5W-40 oil, other than a lot of Stoddart Solvent (white spirits)?

Edited by Spinneyhill (see edit history)

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Like Spinneyhill I question the use of additional additives in motor oil.What are you trying to accomplish by adding MMO or Risalone to your oil? Refiners put a lot more than just crude into those bottles. Snake oil, all of them in my opinion. You are welcome to your opinion of course.  Zeke

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Relieved to report no injuries, and no damaged anything. I have just been able to slowly hobble to my bed and lie down for a few minutes. Somewhat sore, but tomorrow will be the critical test. If I am too beat to do anything more than lie in bed, I will tend to some thumb tapping. Too pooped to post now.   -    Carl 

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Posted (edited)
On 6/30/2019 at 3:36 PM, Spinneyhill said:

I am not sure why one would add another oil to a perfectly good engine oil. It will change the viscosity. Oils already contain a lot of additives. What is in this mystery oil that is not in 5W-40 oil, other than a lot of Stoddart Solvent (white spirits)?

Marvel mystery oil is for ungumming valves and probably helps too with stuck rings - you add it to crusty original/unrestored engines that have not been run in years (basically it is what you would use in a valve oil lubricator).  I would be the first person to not use such, but after eons of old timers yelling at me I thought perhaps time I listen and so far I have been pleasantly surprised (addit it in about the last 5 cars I have revived).    Once you have run it for a while then I would stop adding it to the oil/change the oil.  Not to be rude or anything like that, but I like to get things running that have been laid up for year and then I like to run them on AACA and CCCA tours for a while - basically really drive them (and we rarely if ever trailer a car to and from) and these are the kind of things I found  useful in reviving them. 

Edited by John_Mereness (see edit history)

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Sorry I was away for a couple of days, and saw you mentioned removing the rocker covers. Do not do this, what you are looking at  is the roller rocker system cover and they will not go back in with the valves installed. The valve springs will push the lifter ( push rod )  down and the rocker mechanism will be in the down position and impossible to push the four valve trains ( 8 valves each )   back up at the same time to get it back in. The only exception might be from under the car, but reaching in through the cam shaft to lift the push rods out of the way would be very difficult at best. The rollers are in two sections of 8 vales each, hence two covers. This car has a roller bearing rocker lifter system that pushes the push rod up to move the valves, servicing can only be done when a complete tear down of the valve train is done. You will have to wait and see if you have excessive noise from the lifters after start. Given the overall condition of this car, I would very much doubt you have any lifter issues. If you say the valves all move, then that is a good indication of other things being in good shape as well.

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Sorry Jerry, this is a 433 car ? Then a 6 cylinder, not an eight ? so my suggestion is invalid.  I would suggest you get on the PAC forum and talk to someone who knows this car well, and can tell you from specific experience what you are in to. Sorry for the confusion.

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901 Thanks. I thought I replied Sunday, but I must not have hit the reply button. My car is a 426., a six. PAC is the Packard Club.org? This forum seems much more active.

I'll await more guidance before I remove the rocker cover.

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1 hour ago, Jerry with a Packard said:

901 Thanks. I thought I replied Sunday, but I must not have hit the reply button. My car is a 426., a six. PAC is the Packard Club.org? This forum seems much more active.

I'll await more guidance before I remove the rocker cover.

Can you lay under the open pan while someone handcranks and make sure everything is turning freely regarding valves ?

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I removed the cover over the pushrods. As the engine is cranked, they all move. Looking through the spark plug holes, all valves move. It is awkward to look in those holes. I would say there is not excess carbon, though my judgement lacks experience. Cranking is smooth; no roughness.  

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