Jerry with a Packard

27 Packard, Oh, to get it started.

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This car hasn't been started in years. I am just beginning and am new to this. I want to turn it by hand as a first step. There is a shaft sticking out from below the radiator. I removed a spark plug and twisted this shaft. It turns very easily; can be turned by my pinkie. No movement in the cylinder.

I am reluctant to start taking things apart, since I don't know about gasket availability.

BTW, if I squirt oil into the plug hole, is there a problem with it just going down the valve shaft?

 

Thanks guys.

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The part sticking out is just a cover over the actual crank stub--it should be removable. There is (hopefully) a wrench under the seat or in the trunk (if equipped) that should fit on the stub once you remove the cover, and that will allow you to turn it over by hand. It is going to be VERY tough to turn, but if it turns, that's good news. I would remove all eight plugs, dribble a bit of your favorite penetrating oil in there (ATF, Marvel Mystery Oil, motor oil, whatever), and gradually try to turn it and see if it moves. By removing the plugs you won't have compression fighting you.

 

Once you're sure it turns safely (try to do a few revolutions just to make sure all is good internally) then you can probably move on to putting gas in it and trying to get it to fire. Make sure there's clean oil in the pan (wouldn't hurt to drop it and make sure the pick-up isn't clogged--messy job but not difficult). Put in a fresh battery with a full charge and see if it will fire. It will smoke and belch and run poorly for a while as that penetrating oil burns off and you will likely have to clean the plugs after the first fire (or during, if it doesn't light off). Gaskets are available from several sources, with most coming directly from Olson's Gaskets, who are on the web, but it's usually best to call and talk to someone to get what you need. 

 

There are others here who will chime in with additional suggestions. The important thing is to take your time and don't rush these first steps. If anything seems amiss, the time to fix it is before you try to fire it, not after. It'll probably take quite a bit of work to get it 100% healthy, but if you start off on the right foot, the rest is easier and more rewarding.


Good luck and that's a great-looking car!

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If the picture is recent may we assume that the car was rolled out of the garage for a photo op.  If so an easy way to check if the engine turns, after squirting some oil through the spark plug holes, is to place the car in gear and gently rock it back and forth on its tires.  This motion should then be translated to corresponding motion by the pistons.  With luck, your greatest problem will lie with stale gasoline requiring draining of the tank and cleaning of the carburetor.  Take your time with the resurrection as  it's taken a while for the car to assume its current state of repose and it must be awakened gradually. If the car's outward appearance is any indication you may be surprised at how little work it will take to get it running.

 

By the way, if you supply us with your location, you may find knowledegable Packard people literally in your backyard.

Edited by ejboyd5 (see edit history)

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If you are turning the crank (bent shaft) with your pinkie  then it needs to be push in first to engage the crank shaft, turn it clock wise while pushing  toward the radiator.

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Thanks guys. Yes, I did take off that cover. I will next try to push in the shaft (what is it called?).  Though there is a pin that may prevent pushing it in. See next post. And, of course, I can try putting it in gear and rocking it. BTW, it is a 6 cylinder.

IMG_1178.thumb.JPG.30dad5b3d7e203aa1e4cda5f5e1b5de0.JPGIMG_0767.thumb.JPG.62d8a637f6a3e1e8710d1d6b4c95a53c.JPGI am an hour north of Santa Barbara in Santa Ynez, CA.

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Yes, I did remove the cover. I will try to push it in. There is a perpendicular pin that may prevent that? I suppose I will have to get a crank made. If that doesn't work, I may try putting it in gear and rocking it.

I am in Santa Ynez, north of Santa Barbara, CA. There is a AACA chapter in SB. I plan to join

Today is my first visit to this AACA site.

I took the gas tank to someone who will clean out the interior. It was pretty gunky. He said not to be in a hurry.

It is now safely stored a few hundred yards away from where the first picture was taken. Not really convenient.

Thanks all.

Thanks, JerryIMG_1324.thumb.JPG.f00c6297ae5dd501dda10aba167975a3.JPG 

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I'm not much on the old cars, but it looks like the washer behind the shaft pin is spring loaded so when the handle goes on the shaft and you push it toward the car it then engages the crank, and it also aids in the hand crank removal after the engine starts by pushing it forward.  Just my thought on it.  I'm trying to learn more about the old cars too by what others have posted on the forum.  Nice car.

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Hi, Jerry ! Welcome to AACA ! I am sure you recognize these locations right next to you in 'Ynez. Easter 2016, my 1927 Cadillac. (Is Matteis back open yet?). The local chapter meets at Harry's in Goleta. Please don't park your Packard in "my" spot without  bringing a drop cloth 😏. My friend Roy Lassen (classicaccessories.org), lives a few Frisbee throws from Harry's. He will be 95 in February, still sharp, still drives, but seldom goes to the meetings any more. He will have a thing or three you will want for your '27 Packard. He can also hook you up with an extremely competent methodical mobile mechanic if need be. But you may find help very close to you with all the old car folk living in your area. Please tell us more about the history of your car, and how you came to acquire it.

 

I do have to run at the moment, but will enjoy sharing this resurrection with you, and riding "cyber shotgun" when you are back on the road. Oh  : and when you talk to Roy, ask him about the run he made with 1927 Cadillac Carl down Old San Marcos Road from Cold Spring Tavern that Easter. Was that you we passed ?     -    Carl 

 

P.S. I just read my post and realized it could be inferred that drop cloths are now required at Harry's because my Cad' might have piddled. No, it doesn't drip, but I noticed the slab of ply board under  your car in the picture.  -  CC 

 

 

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Edited by C Carl
Add P.S. (see edit history)

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That shaft protruding out the front is spring loaded and needs to be pushed in.  The attached photo show how it engages the end of the crankshaft.  You will need a crank  handle to turn it even if the engine is free.    These parts are from a 1922 6 cyl Packard probably the same as yours.  Nice looking car

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DO NOT TRY TO TURN YOUR ENGINE MORE THAN A FRACTION OF A DEGREE UNTIL EVERYTHING IS FRESHLY PREPARED AND LUBRICATED. YOU MUST KNOW WHAT YOU ARE DOING,PREFERABLY HAVING SOMEONE EXPERIENCED MENTORING. IF YOU WILL NOT HAVE LOCAL HANDS ON, WE CAN TAKE YOU THROUGH EACH NECESSAY STEP. How many years since it has started ? Where was it stored ?   -   CC 

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Very helpful information. All right on.

Thank you Carl David & Coyote. David, did you take those photos just for your response? Wow. What could be clearer?

I am very cautious by nature. That is why I haven't made any progress in the 8 months I've had the car. I won't over do the cranking. I have been warned! I think I can fashion a crank from a 1" galvanized pipe (which fits snugly) and a pipe wrench. If the pipe is strong enough.

Great to see those photos of places I know. Mattei's is a bike ride away. I think they opened and then closed again.

There are minor leaks, mostly grease dripping from the chassis. I don't like oil on the concrete.

I found the car on Craig's list. I was not in the market, or so I thought. They guy had it for a time; I am not sure for how long. One year? Four years?

He bought it from someone in Ojai. I think that owner had it for decades. It was purchased from Earl Anthony in LA as per a plaque on the dash.

I'll try Roy Lassen. 95? He answers email?

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Sidenote:  It is going to leak 30 spots of oil out on your garage floor and if you want to fix them you can spend all the money you have/make = then it will leak oil out of 10 spots onto your garage floor.  Also, best to park it in the grass in the morning when using the Bijur chassis oiler and then put it back in the garage at night - cannot tell you the number of times someone pulled the oiler handle and then looked at me stupid as the thing  leak all over the floor thinking it was not going to make a mess (it basically flushed oil through it's lubrication points).   When I Bijur greased the RR PI, I usually put a cheap plastic painters drop cloth under the car for a couple of days thereafter.

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David, did you take those photos just for your response?   I took those photos a while ago in answer to a similar question.  I am glad they were useful.  I guess your car is a 426 please keep us posted of your progress.  There is information that might be useful on the Packard Information site:  http://packardinfo.com/xoops/html/modules/article/view.category.php?51

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2X on pulling the oil pan.  I have just made it a rule when bringing old cars back to life. Normally there is oil sludge in the bottom of the pan from sitting, right where the oil pick up is.  The sludge can starve the engine of oil.  It is not a big job just a little time consuming.  The best part is you can look up into the engine and see the cylinder walls, they should be free of any rust/corrosion.  You can buy a new gasket from Olson, or just go down to your local parts store and buy gasket material and make your own, I would call first, but you should have a local store that can help.

 

Good luck, great looking Packard, the 6 is a great engine.

 

PS I have two Graham-Paige cars with disk wheels they are 1000 times easier to wash than my wire wheel Grahams

 

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I must confess that I have made no real progress so far. I did turn the engine over by hand. It feels as I would expect an engine that has no excess resistance. I then drained the oil and it looks fine to me. The oil pan will come off next. I called Olsen and confident I can get a gasket. I have looked for the oil filter and where is it? I have a manual for the Packard six and it shows the filter just above the starter and parallel to it. There is no filter on my engine that I can find. I thought it was where the cover was on the bottom of the oil pan, but that accesses the oil pump, which looks clean.

I also have questions about the vacuum tank, which I'll ask in the next post.

Thanks everyone.

Jerry

BTW, Olsen said the oil pan gasket comes in pieces. Will that work?

Oil filter here I.JPG

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Looking at the top of the vacuum tank, there is a tube that is the vacuum from the engine, a tube that goes to the gas tank (now properly cleaned out, but not on the car yet) and a tube that is a vent. The tube that I assume comes from the engine comes out from the firewall in the second picture. It also has a tee that is not connected. Where should that tee go?

The picture attached is not the best one and I don't know how to delete it. It will be attached to the next post.

Oh, I see the delete icon, but will keep it attached for reference.
Thanks guys.

IMG_0767smallernot yet.jpg

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Hmmm. They won't let me attach the photo. Is the 9.77 MB limit a daily or total limit?

I will be out of town soon for awhile. So the progress will remain at a snail's pace.

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55 minutes ago, Jerry with a Packard said:

Hmmm. They won't let me attach the photo. Is the 9.77 MB limit a daily or total limit?

The 9.77 MB limit seems to be a post limit. Others say just leave the topic, look at another briefly and come back and it is reset. If the photo is bigger than 9.77 MB, you will need to resize it.

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That short section of tubing attached to the top of your vacuum tank is the suction line that needs to be  extended to connect to a nipple on the underside of the intake manifold around the centre.  You can't see it, need to feel for it.  The "T" is for a vacuum line from the same location to drive the wipers..  The vent is open to atmosphere.

 

The are many articles on line with detailed information and drawings showing the Stewart Warner vacuum tank.

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You could by-pass the vacuum tank with a cheap electric fuel pump, $10 on eBay, to see if you can get it started. Once running then work on the vacuum tank.

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Vacuum tanks are a marvelous work of old era technology! For getting the car going for the first time in years, first check to make sure the tank is not rusted through or leaking. Often, it is best to carefully remove the top. However be careful, those eight little screws do like to break. Then getting the broken end out of the tank is a royal pain.

If the vacuum tank is good, and the lines to the carburetor are good and clean with no leaks? You are all set up with a low volume temporary tank already mounted on your firewall to put one to two quarts of gasoline in and try to start the motor (of course after all other motor checks,fluids, and gaskets are ready!).

If you can't or don't want to take the top off the vacuum tank? Take the fuel line input to the vacuum tank (the line from the gasoline tank) off carefully. These fittings usually come off easily, usually nothing wants to break. Then using a funnel, put about one cup of gasoline into the tank. Check for leaks. If leaks are found, repair them. Hopefully just taking fittings apart and reassembling them with some proper sealant (not too much, don't want to plug up the fuel flow!). If the bottom of the vacuum tank itself leaks? Then it is a more complicated repair.

If no leaks are found, or have been sealed? Then add another cup of gasoline. Two cups should get the level above where leaks usually form.

To start the engine?  Once the vacuum tank has passed the first simple checks and fixes? One to two quarts of gasoline can be poured into the top of the vacuum tank with a funnel into the inlet fittings. Best to temporarily block off the vacuum line so to not cause a vacuum leak issue with the carburetor. Beyond that, the one to two quarts of gasoline is a controllable enough to run the motor for short whiles. It allows you to monitor amounts and times without wondering whether the vacuum tank is working properly, the fuel lines don't leak, the gasoline tank isn't plugged (it doesn't even have to be installed!). Once you know the motor is running fairly well, THEN you can sort out those other details. You can even do a short test drive running on that quart or two in the vacuum tank. Just don't go too far. A quart or two may take you a block or two, up to maybe a mile or so. Depends a lot on how much you used to get it started.

Years ago, in my '29 Reo, I would put a quart in the vacuum tank, then drive three long blocks to the service station to fill the gasoline tank before going on a tour. (I often kept the tank empty when not being driven.)

 

Beautiful Packard! I love it!

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No need to fit an electric pump, just fill the vac tank with some fuel and use it as a gravity feed supply.  If you connect the vacuum line it is likely it will work.

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