unconventional63 Posted January 30, 2019 Share Posted January 30, 2019 Hello! So I have recently discovered an issue with my 401. I have an intermittent ticking sound coming out of the right side exhaust pipe. I originally thought it was the resonator as it appeared to be coming from that end of the exhaust, however when i straight piped the car, the noise was still there. Its a ticking sound that gets faster with the engine speed, and seems more "throaty" at idle. Now, this does not happen all the time, and it doesn't matter if its warm or cold outside. And again, its only on the right side so I feel like it might be a sticking lifter maybe? So before i pull the covers off and start trying to diagnose a problem I can't duplicate (it never happens when i need it to) I would like to know if anyone else has had this problem, and what they found. Thanks for your help! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RivNut Posted January 30, 2019 Share Posted January 30, 2019 Sounds like you're describing the 'Riviera rattle' which is the fuel return line vibrating against the frame. A couple of well placed pieces of rubber insulation will cure it (or at least you won't be able to hear it.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1965rivgs Posted January 30, 2019 Share Posted January 30, 2019 Sometimes a "ticking" noise can be a small exhaust leak. There are plenty of potential souces for exhaust to leak in the area of the right hand exhaust manifold but if it is an exhaust leak I would guess an individual cylinder at the cylinder head to exhaust manifold junction. When the tick presents itself, pull each of the spark plug wires on that bank one at a time, shorting each cylinder one at a time, and listen to see if you can stop the noise by shorting a particular cylinder. If so, you have an exhaust leak at that cylinder. Sometimes the exhaust manifold bolts can become just loose enough to cause a very small exhaust leak and tightening them can help. Good luck, Tom Mooney Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Riviera63 Posted January 30, 2019 Share Posted January 30, 2019 (edited) 2 hours ago, unconventional63 said: Hello! So I have recently discovered an issue with my 401. I have an intermittent ticking sound coming out of the right side exhaust pipe. I originally thought it was the resonator as it appeared to be coming from that end of the exhaust, however when i straight piped the car, the noise was still there. Its a ticking sound that gets faster with the engine speed, and seems more "throaty" at idle. Now, this does not happen all the time, and it doesn't matter if its warm or cold outside. And again, its only on the right side so I feel like it might be a sticking lifter maybe? So before i pull the covers off and start trying to diagnose a problem I can't duplicate (it never happens when i need it to) I would like to know if anyone else has had this problem, and what they found. Thanks for your help! Just to expand on what Tom was talking about. I had this happen twice on my 63. Two years ago I had this very same thing and found it was exhaust leaking from the heat riser where the flap attaches in the manifold. They removed the flap and welded the holes shut from the outside. Problem solved. Last summer the problem returned. Same side and the same noise. This time It was a cracked manifold. The noise would lessen as the car/manifold warmed up causing the gaps to narrow and close. Eventually it grew worse to the point I had to replace the manifold. I have attached some pictures. There were actually 2 cracks. New manifold, no noise. Bill Edited January 30, 2019 by Riviera63 revise text (see edit history) 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Riviera63 Posted January 30, 2019 Share Posted January 30, 2019 Here are a couple of more pictures. One shows the heat riser flap hole welded shut. Bill 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
unconventional63 Posted January 31, 2019 Author Share Posted January 31, 2019 On 1/30/2019 at 8:56 AM, RivNut said: Sounds like you're describing the 'Riviera rattle' which is the fuel return line vibrating against the frame. A couple of well placed pieces of rubber insulation will cure it (or at least you won't be able to hear it.) AH thank you I will have a look and see if that is the case here! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
unconventional63 Posted January 31, 2019 Author Share Posted January 31, 2019 On 1/30/2019 at 9:38 AM, 1965rivgs said: Sometimes a "ticking" noise can be a small exhaust leak. There are plenty of potential souces for exhaust to leak in the area of the right hand exhaust manifold but if it is an exhaust leak I would guess an individual cylinder at the cylinder head to exhaust manifold junction. When the tick presents itself, pull each of the spark plug wires on that bank one at a time, shorting each cylinder one at a time, and listen to see if you can stop the noise by shorting a particular cylinder. If so, you have an exhaust leak at that cylinder. Sometimes the exhaust manifold bolts can become just loose enough to cause a very small exhaust leak and tightening them can help. Good luck, Tom Mooney Hmm that makes sense. I will pull the wires this weekend and see if i can isolate it. The problem I've ben having though, is it doesn't make the noise when i need it to lol so hopefully i can get it to duplicate, and then i can try this trick! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
unconventional63 Posted January 31, 2019 Author Share Posted January 31, 2019 (edited) 23 hours ago, Riviera63 said: Here are a couple of more pictures. One shows the heat riser flap hole welded shut. Bill This also makes sense...ok i will have a look at the heat riser valve, and then pull the manifolds. I always worry about doing that in fear of braking off bolts. Do you have a suggestion for preventing that? Should i soak the manifold bolts in WD 40 or something similar prior to trying those bolts? Or are they usually good to get out? MY car is pretty clean so i dont think they would be rusted. Edited January 31, 2019 by unconventional63 (see edit history) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KongaMan Posted January 31, 2019 Share Posted January 31, 2019 IMHO, check the rattle before you start futzing around with removing exhaust parts. Hint: it's easier with an empty gas tank. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1965rivgs Posted January 31, 2019 Share Posted January 31, 2019 1 hour ago, unconventional63 said: Hmm that makes sense. I will pull the wires this weekend and see if i can isolate it. The problem I've ben having though, is it doesn't make the noise when i need it to lol so hopefully i can get it to duplicate, and then i can try this trick! Do the troubleshooting before you condemn the manifolds for an exhaust leak. The Riviera rattle that is mentioned sounds deeper than a "tick". Most folks describe the rattle as a "knock" , which has been my experience. Tom Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
unconventional63 Posted January 31, 2019 Author Share Posted January 31, 2019 3 hours ago, KongaMan said: IMHO, check the rattle before you start futzing around with removing exhaust parts. Hint: it's easier with an empty gas tank. absolutely. wouldn't start ripping things apart too far without doing the easy stuff first...when i was going through my apprenticeship, i remember i was diagnosing a horn not working...1 hour into tracing wires, i checked the fuse. It was blown. lol. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
unconventional63 Posted January 31, 2019 Author Share Posted January 31, 2019 2 hours ago, 1965rivgs said: Do the troubleshooting before you condemn the manifolds for an exhaust leak. The Riviera rattle that is mentioned sounds deeper than a "tick". Most folks describe the rattle as a "knock" , which has been my experience. Tom Hmmm well i think it borderlines on a knock.....but at least this thread is giving me some guidance and a few things to check. I remember the noise appearing to be further back closer to the rear tire, so that's why i initially didn't think it was an exhaust leak and more the resonator. But again, now that its straight piped it still there. Thanks again Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
petelempert Posted January 31, 2019 Share Posted January 31, 2019 Not to add to your list of potential culprits, but I had a mystery ticking noise a few years back. I was sure it was either a bum lifter or cracked manifold but it turned out to be a loose harmonic balancer bolt. I was completely frustrated, unable to locate the noise and very reluctant to tear off either a valve cover or a manifold. One day, the ticking started to sound more like a slight chirping. Under a load, it sounded like a knock. I got down under the front of the motor while it was running and it was audible. You could even see a slight wobble in the harmonic balancer. Spooky, but I caught it in time before it damaged the crank. I was so busy looking for the culprit at the top of the motor I never thought to get down under it and listen. Worth a look...PRL 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1965rivgs Posted January 31, 2019 Share Posted January 31, 2019 24 minutes ago, unconventional63 said: Hmmm well i think it borderlines on a knock.....but at least this thread is giving me some guidance and a few things to check. I remember the noise appearing to be further back closer to the rear tire, so that's why i initially didn't think it was an exhaust leak and more the resonator. But again, now that its straight piped it still there. Thanks again Well, that sounds like it could be the fuel line rattle...typically sounds like it`s coming from the right side toward the rear. IIRC, the sound is more pronounced when the engine is cold. Tom 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steelman Posted February 1, 2019 Share Posted February 1, 2019 Just a quick word, but the “Riviera Rattle” affects only air conditioned cars. Cars without air do not have the return line. It was never said if the car in question is equipped with air. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
unconventional63 Posted February 1, 2019 Author Share Posted February 1, 2019 17 hours ago, petelempert said: Not to add to your list of potential culprits, but I had a mystery ticking noise a few years back. I was sure it was either a bum lifter or cracked manifold but it turned out to be a loose harmonic balancer bolt. I was completely frustrated, unable to locate the noise and very reluctant to tear off either a valve cover or a manifold. One day, the ticking started to sound more like a slight chirping. Under a load, it sounded like a knock. I got down under the front of the motor while it was running and it was audible. You could even see a slight wobble in the harmonic balancer. Spooky, but I caught it in time before it damaged the crank. I was so busy looking for the culprit at the top of the motor I never thought to get down under it and listen. Worth a look...PRL Ohhh yea that is definitely worth a look. Thank you! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
unconventional63 Posted February 1, 2019 Author Share Posted February 1, 2019 16 hours ago, steelman said: Just a quick word, but the “Riviera Rattle” affects only air conditioned cars. Cars without air do not have the return line. It was never said if the car in question is equipped with air. AHHH good to know! Mine is air conditioned so I'm good there. Thank you for the tip! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Electra63 Posted January 21, 2023 Share Posted January 21, 2023 Hello folks. An old thread but it maybe what I'm looking for.... Two points 1. I believe i have the Riviera rattle on my 63 Electra. It comes and goes when driving. At first I thought it was the drive train. Worn universal joints or something but the fact it is intermittent gives it away. Gonna install isolating clamps and perhaps hose to see if it'll go away 2. Main reason for this reply. I think I may also have the noise generated by the heat riser flap or at least from a leak related to it. I have what sounds like an exhaust leak from somewhere behind the engine more towards the passenger side. Attached is a pic of what I think is this heat flap. Am I right ? Question:. There is what looks like a small diameter metal tube or wire that seems to have detached from the piece that's in the manifold. Can someone confirm what that is and if the piece sitting in the manifold could be open and allowing exhaust gas to blow out with the associated exhaust leak noise Thanks Mark Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RivNut Posted January 21, 2023 Share Posted January 21, 2023 That is the heat tube for the automatic choke. A rubber tube runs from a nipple on the air horn of the carburetor to supply fresh air to the bottom of the heat tube. A metal tube runs from the top of the heat tube to the choke housing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Electra63 Posted January 21, 2023 Share Posted January 21, 2023 Thanks Ed I'm in California so I don't really need the automatic choke function. But if the tube is disconnected (as it seems to be) could it cause other issues with exhaust gas leak, vacuum or air/fuel mix etc? Mark Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RivNut Posted January 21, 2023 Share Posted January 21, 2023 5 minutes ago, Electra63 said: Thanks Ed I'm in California so I don't really need the automatic choke function. But if the tube is disconnected (as it seems to be) could it cause other issues with exhaust gas leak, vacuum or air/fuel mix etc? Mark No. The tube only runs through the exhaust manifold to heat the air. It’s closed from the exhaust gasses. The choke is only needed for cold weather starts. If you don’t need a choke, this air passage is not necessary. On my 63 and my 64, I’ve converted both to electric chokes so this ain’t tube isn’t needed. Both cars run fine without it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seafoam65 Posted January 21, 2023 Share Posted January 21, 2023 Two things to note.......the quick way to check for an exhaust leak and find it is to pour some transmission fluid down the throat of the carburetor while it is idling.....if you have any exhaust leak it will smoke like crazy from that location. Also I would note that the reason the harmonic balancer bolts get loose is because someone had it off and didn't torque it properly when reassembling it. The torque spec on the balancer bolt is 220 foot lbs. People who don't know any better torque them to about 90 foot lbs. and they fly apart after a little while. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RivNut Posted January 21, 2023 Share Posted January 21, 2023 Another place to check for an exhaust leak “tick” is the plug in the bottom of the intake manifold. Exhaust gas passages through the intake can corrode that plug and cause it to leak. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Electra63 Posted January 22, 2023 Share Posted January 22, 2023 Thanks guys. Very helpful I'll do some more investigating Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
.thumb.jpg.d0c94bf3fe8ef9f4d9194c3931b0a03d.jpg)
Recommended Posts
Create an account or sign in to comment
You need to be a member in order to leave a comment
Create an account
Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!
Register a new accountSign in
Already have an account? Sign in here.
Sign In Now