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AFE11A66-9144-4AEF-9EAC-48F4FEA4947A.thumb.jpeg.d2354346318cd62723ffde5aa1560088.jpegJust joined the group.....

I own a 39 Buick Special and a 22 McLaughlin Buick 4 cylinder  coupe.   I use to drive the 39 often but life got in the way and it’s been stored for around 35 years.   When I got the 22 about 30 years ago it was partly disassembled so I’m looking for manuals, diagrams and detailed photos to help me locate a few parts I’m missing and to reassemble.   The biggest item I need are the splash pans that I’m sure I will need to have fabricated but I need the dimensions so any suggestions would be appreciated.  The other big task that I need to be cautious about is getting it running again and what to watch out for.   I know to pull the plugs and add loosening oils and giving them time to work but beyond that any advice is welcomed.

 

i live in Michigan but in AZ for the winter if there are any local Buick groups

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Edited by Mike Mowen
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Mike,    There have been a number of topics recently on this forum,  where people are freeing up engines that have been sitting for a long time.  Mark Kikta has  been giving a very good , step by step  account of freeing up  his frozen  22 engine. Read  those topics,  it  covers all you need, to get your  engine going. 

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Welcome Mike!

 

Agree with Rod W.  Do a search on a topic.  Lots of great info on the PWD site.  Please consider joining the BCA as well.

 

Lots of helpful people here so if you don't see your answer, just post and ask.

 

You are not missing anything in mid-Michigan right now.  High noon and -4F.

 

Not sure if you are seeing our post signatures, but mine shows I am in Fenton, MI so not too far away.

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Listen to the sage advice you just read here. Great you are in AACA now but you also need to join the Buick Club of America as well as any local BCA chapter that is near you.

By all means contact Larry Schramm, he is one great guy and has become a buddy as we are next to each other at the annual AACA meet in October at Hershey in the flea market!

He is a cool guy with lots of hands on experience and will be a good mentor to you getting your car back on the road again. Lots of good people in AACA and BCA to help so take advantage of that.

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Mike, 

   Welcome.  You have your hands full with 2 Prewar Buicks, but I think that is just twice the fun.  

I wrote the following with the advise of others on the forum to help new owners.  I look forward to seeing more pictures of your cars and your progress.    Hugh

 

Starting Buick Pre War engines                                                          Hugh Leidlein   1-30-2019

    To protect your investment, the following guide is to prevent any damage from hand cranking the engine on a Pre War Buick which has been sitting. 

Warnings:

All Buicks – Ensure all rocker arms will pivot.  Failure to do so will result in bent push rods.

1918-1930 (Buicks with water pumps on the side of the block) – Buicks have a fiber timing gear.  Frozen water pumps can cause the timing gear to shear the teeth.

Non Detergent oil usage.  This is in many old cars.  The dipstick may look like clean oil, but all the sludge has built up in the pan.  There is a high probability that the Oil pick up screen is sludged over or torn.

Must Do:  DO NOT ATTEMPT TO ROTATE THE MOTOR UNTIL DOING THE FOLLOWING

Rocker Arms- drizzle oil on the rockers.  Bump the rockers with a rubber mallet over each valve spring to ensure that the rocker arms and springs move just a little.  If any are stuck or slow, Spray with penetrant, then oil.

Water Pumps – remove the water pump inlet and outlet hoses.   Verify that the pump housing will rotate on the shaft.  It should rotate at least 180 degrees without the hoses.  If the pump will not rotate, you will need to remove the water pump and shaft assembly.   

Oil Pan - Drain and drop the oil pan.  Olson’s Gaskets has replacement gaskets.  The pan may never have been dropped and it may be full of sludge from the non- detergent oil days.  Your oil pick up screen may be clogged and the screen will tear loose and get sucked in.  Many of the people that drop the pan have to replace one of the sump screens.     

 Cylinders – Remove the spark plugs.  Squirt some oil in the cylinders. 

Now you can attempt to turn the motor with the hand crank.

 

 

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Welcome Mike!

 

i too an brand spanking new to the game and have been a sponge since joining these unbelievably knowledgeable folks in this fine group, every question I have had multiple members have taken their time to help me out and give SOLID advice...... this place is both QUALITY and Quantity when advice/guidance is needed!

 

Mr even a “What the heck is this!!???” moment!  I got my hands on a 1927 Buick back in the Summer that had a 20 year old restoration (aside from its original 91 yr old interior) and it’s been sitting in the previous owner’s garage since 2004 when he passed away!  These fine folks have been a huge asset and chocked full of quality answers for me to help me “let the sun shine on her ass yet another day” as I affectionately like to put my work toward getting the car back in running order!

 

Welcome to the group, I too can’t wait to see your progress, Good luck on the builds!

 

🤘🏼🤘🏼

-Crazyfamily

”William”

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Mike, 

     I can tell you have your hands full, but I found another document that has additional information for you.  Sorry for some overlap in the documents.    Hugh

New Buick Owners Guide & Prewar Starting guide.          Hugh Leidlein                  12-22-19   C

Welcome to Buick ownership.  Here are some tips to get you started.

The following books are necessary for Pre war Buick Ownership.   They come based on 4 cylinder or 6 cylinder models prior to 1925, or for Standard or Master 1925 and up.  Basically around 115” wheelbase is the smaller Buick series and 120 to 128” wheelbase is the larger Buick series. 

The Buick Heritage Alliance sells the following books.  The quality of the copies is only “fair” in many cases.  This may work for some people, depending on how many pieces your car is missing or needing.  I suggest buying an original book of parts if you can find it due to the better print quality.  

1)      The “Book of Parts” for your year.  

2)      The “Shop Manual” for your year

3)      The “reference book” for your year (of lesser importance if you can find a shop manual).

It is helpful in many cases to obtain copies of the parts books for 1 or 2 years before and after your model year.  Many times there is additional information or photos that will help with your understanding.

Note: Only a handful of parts used on a 4 cylinder model fit a 6 cylinder model.  Same with so few Standard parts will fit a Master.  The 4 cylinder line became the Standard, and the 6 cylinder line became the Master so there is interchangeability in that order.  Parts interchange is closest based on wheelbase of the models      

There is also available a big book of parts “Buick Master Parts List 1916-1932”.  This 3” thick book provides a listing of the years and models for each part.  You will have better luck finding a part knowing it’s year and model range rather than just looking for a single year.   This book does not have a lot of pictures and will not be a good substitute for the book of parts for your year, but I refer to this book frequently.   Some find it of little use - based on how many parts they are missing.

There are almost zero “exploded views” of parts, so take a lot of photos and notes during disassembly. 

------------ Precautions------ THESE ARE NOT MODERN ENGINES------Damage can occur.

The first order is usually to see if the engine will turn over.  Do the following first.

1)      Pull the Water pump hoses

 The water pump is on the side of the motor.  The issue is that the camshaft gear is fiber, and it drives the waterpump.  If the water pump is frozen or drags, it will destroy the timing gear teeth.  Parts will fall in the engine.  The camshaft gears are expensive and new gears are not of the same quality as the originals.  The first order of business should be to remove the water pump hoses to ensure the pump rotates on the shaft.   Without the hoses, it should rotate 180 degrees. Note that some earlier models have a water pump housing bolt that also needs to be removed.       

Water pump shafts are steel unless a recent replacement to stainless.  The water pump bearings are bronze.  If the antifreeze was not cared for, rust on the WP shaft could wear the bronze bearings out quickly.  The WP seal is graphite packing.  The wear surface should be smooth and the packing should only be tight enough to prevent major leaks of the waterpump.  It should drip a little bit here and there.  If it does not, the packing is too tight.  Most people replace the shaft with a stainless steel shaft.

2)      Change the oil (and filter if it has one).  Strongly consider dropping the oil pan as well. 

An oil change is probably long overdue.   Don’t cut corners and skip dropping the pan.  Pre 1926 cars had no oil filter.  Non detergent oil was used for years, and there is likely a lot of sludge in the oil pan.  I have seen the oil pick up screens clogged from sludge, and this will starve the engine and could suck the screen in.  Bob’s Automobilia or Olsons Gaskets has an oil pan gasket set.  This is not a hard job.

3)      Oil the Cylinders

Pull the spark plugs, put some oil in the cylinders.  If penetrating oil or Marvel mystery oil was used in the cylinders, you must follow it with regular oil once the engine begins to turn. 

4)      Pull the valve cover. 

Squirt oil on the rocker assembly.  Bump the rockers with a rubber mallet over the valve springs to ensure that all the valves move.  Drip oil on the valve stems if you can.

5)      Pull the engine side covers.

Squirt oil on the cam shaft rollers (and cam bearings if you can get to them). 

After doing the above 5 items, you could rotate the motor, even crank it with the starter.  If the engine is or was frozen, let the cylinders soak for at least a week in penetrating lube.  It is best to try to unstick a frozen engine from the flywheel end and not the hand crank end.  The handcrank is not that strong.  Put the transmission in 1st gear.  Use 4 people (2 in front and 2 at the back) to rock the car back and forth in an effort to free the pistons.  Parts frozen by rust come apart easier if you work the frozen part back and forth rather than continually forcing the rotation thru the rust.  Reversing rotation allows some rust to move out of compression between the parts.

Note that the pistons are removed only from the bottom of the engine on early Buick motors.  If you do get the engine to rotate, strongly consider pulling the pistons out the bottom and cleaning the cylinder walls and the ring grooves and doing an inspection - prior to reinstalling and firing the engine.     

It would be great to get a compression tester.  Around 60 lbs pressure in each cylinder is a good motor.  There should be less than 10% deviation in each cylinder.  Spark plug adapters are available from Ford Model A parts suppliers.    

Cranking the motor is a good thing to check off the list.  A compression test gives a good check on the health of the motor. 

Preparing for starting – knowing that the motor turns over:

1)      Pull the carburetor. 

a)      Clean out the fuel bowl. 

b)      Use carburetor cleaner to ensure all internal passages blow thru. 

c)       Consider installing a Nitrolphyl float – available from Bob’s Automobilia or Gregg Lange. 

d)      Check that the air valve lays smooth against the carburetor inside diameter and that there is a narrow gap at the base of the air valve.  You may need to file the pot metal venturi block.  There are AACA forum posts on this – search using the quote “Marvel Carburetor Rebuilding”.

2)      Check that the exhaust manifold valve (on the front end of the exhaust manifold) is open.  There are AACA forum posts on this – search using the quote “Buick Exhaust valve removal”.

3)      Rebuild the distributor.  The distributor should rotate by the advance levers on the steering column.  Several years of distributors were pot metal and the distributor housing will grow and freeze into the generator housing.   Replace with a steel Buick distributor from other years.  Do not force the movement as there are potmetal gears at the base of the steering column that are not that strong.  There are AACA forum posts on this – search using the quote “Distributor Replacement”.  Also search for “Distributor rebuilding”.

4)      Rebuild the Water pump. (see the forum for upgrades to the seals and shaft). There are AACA forum posts on this – search using the quote “Water Pump Rebuilding”.

5)      The fan hub is an old design that requires frequent oiling and will leak oil all over the motor.  Replace it with a sealed bearing hub – Several suppliers for this.  Search the AACA Forum “fan hub replacement”.

6)      Rebuild the vacuum tank and gas tank * I prefer to do the “fuel supply” system later as there is a lot to this.  For a first start, I hang a 1 quart used lawnmower tank and feed the carburetor with this from a reinforced rubber fuel hose, or just pour gas in the vacuum tank.  It will hold about a quart. Search the AACA Forum “vacuum tank rebuilding”.

 

Other notes:

Oil and grease is usually long overdue for removing the old and installing new (and not just installing new.)  Clean out as much of the old as you can first.

 

Engines that have laid dormant for decades may have significant rust in the engine block.  You do not want this in your honeycomb radiator as they cannot be rodded out.  Consider installing a Gano filter into the top radiator hose to catch sediment and keep rust out of the radiator.  Also consider removing the engine freeze plugs and cleaning any rust out of the block, or at least reverse flushing out the engine water jacket with water and without radiator hoses just prior to start up.

The firing order is 142635.  (Reverse of a modern engine).

 

 

Edited by Hubert_25-25 (see edit history)
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10 hours ago, Hubert_25-25 said:

Water Pumps – remove the water pump inlet and outlet hoses.   Verify that the pump housing will rotate on the shaft.  It should rotate at least 180 degrees without the hoses.  If the pump will not rotate, you will need to remove the water pump and shaft assembly.  

 

 

 

There is a bolt on the bottom too. Won't rotate on the shaft unless you remove that bolt.

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Welcome Mike and thanks for the photos of your Buick.  All good advice above.  Also look at the Prewar Resources on this site to find parts, manuals, etc. 

There is an abundance of expertise on this site, and all will be helpful if you just ask.

Enjoy the ride!

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1 hour ago, Morgan Wright said:

 

There is a bolt on the bottom too. Won't rotate on the shaft unless you remove that bolt.

   Morgan, 

        Is there a bolt on the earlier water pumps that they do not have on the later water pumps?   On the 1925 pumps, the only thing that prevents the housing from rotating with the shaft are the hoses.    Do you have any pictures.    Hugh

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Hugh you are correct. Terry Weigand told me the earlier cars had the pump bolted to the block and had a simpler straight shaft.

132002418_979889706_tp.jpg.b3efe98eb8e03818aaba60679bc247da1.jpg.78228ae11b36a847081bb0b249ca79c2.jpg    1918 E-49

IMG_1282.thumb.JPG.371d1ef81cc1872d53224b1334d1c9e1.JPG    1917-D-44

                                                                                                          

 Of course on our 1925s the pump is only held in place on the shaft by the pined impellor and the hoses.1170857847_(KGrHqZ!pIE-0CNoNMNBP)mb08cBQ60_12.jpg.ee8d803dc7aed2fa53609c37e1dfbb6c.jpg

 

Edited by dibarlaw
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2 hours ago, Hubert_25-25 said:

 

 

   Morgan, 

        Is there a bolt on the earlier water pumps that they do not have on the later water pumps?   On the 1925 pumps, the only thing that prevents the housing from rotating with the shaft are the hoses.    Do you have any pictures.    Hugh

 

On my E-49 there is a bracket on the block. On my video skip forward to around 1:45 to see it.

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n-QN9J6_WKc

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Here is a photo of the water pump housing and end cover for my 1916 D-45.  The pump housing and end cover are at the paint shop under primer awaiting paint as I write this.  The new shaft and packing nuts are ready for the final assembly when the rebuilt engine comes back home.  Something that I will point out here is the threaded hole on the bottom side of the housing ledge and/or lip that locks the housing to the arm on the crankcase.  With regard to the brass packing nuts, there are two left hand internal thread nuts and the one right hand internal thread nut.  I thought that I was pretty good at cutting threads with a single point tool.  I am here to tell you all that I made five of those left hand threaded nuts to get the two that I was satisfied with.  Larry knows exactly what I am talking about.

 

Terry Wiegand

South Hutchinson, Kansas

DSC03127.JPG

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As a teenager in 1961 with his "new" '37 Special, I had plenty of time to clean up my engine; it had 95K miles on it and no oil filter. It was smart that I removed the rocker arm shaft since it was totally blocked with hardened black crud, preventing good oil flow to the valves and rockers for cylinders 6-8.  Keep in mind that not only do your rockers and lifters need to be free and moving, but that the oil flow is unobstructed from front to rear in the engine.

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Hi, my name is Les. I just joined BCA and am beginning work on my 1926 Buick Standard 6. I  am planning on pulling engine to clean and check over. I have copies of a couple of manuals. Been reading thru some of the posts on things to do to free up engine and where to buy gaskets. I will be checking in on forums often and looking for suggestions. I live just outside of Muskegon, Mi.

 

 

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Edited by Les Tornga
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Welcome Les,

You have found the right place to talk early Buicks and get acquainted with some very knowledgeable Buick enthusiasts at the same time.  Please post some photos of your car.  We would like to see what you are working on.

 

Terry Wiegand

South Hutchinson, Kansas

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2 hours ago, Les Tornga said:

Hi, my name is Les. I just joined BCA and am beginning work on my 1926 Buick Standard 6. I  am planning on pulling engine to clean and check over. I have copies of a couple of manuals. Been reading thru some of the posts on things to do to free up engine and where to buy gaskets. I will be checking in on forums often and looking for suggestions. I live just outside of Muskegon, Mi.

 

 

 

You are better off making your own gaskets most of the time. Get a gasket hole punch set, Pittsburgh make a great one cheap, sold at Harbor Freight, around $30. Some gaskets are cork, some paper, just match the old gasket for thickness, etc.  Use a small hammer to tap around the metal to edge the gasket. Head gaskets are a different story.

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5 hours ago, Les Tornga said:

Hi, my name is Les. I just joined BCA and am beginning work on my 1926 Buick Standard 6. I  am planning on pulling engine to clean and check over. I have copies of a couple of manuals. Been reading thru some of the posts on things to do to free up engine and where to buy gaskets. I will be checking in on forums often and looking for suggestions. I live just outside of Muskegon, Mi.

 

 

 

Welcome to the PWD Les!

 

68,500+ searchable PWD posts and lots of good folks ready to help.

 

Well done joining the BCA too.

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17 hours ago, Les Tornga said:

Hi, my name is Les. I just joined BCA and am beginning work on my 1926 Buick Standard 6. I  am planning on pulling engine to clean and check over. I have copies of a couple of manuals. Been reading thru some of the posts on things to do to free up engine and where to buy gaskets. I will be checking in on forums often and looking for suggestions. I live just outside of Muskegon, Mi.

 

 

 

Don't get to the west side of the state much, but if you get to the Detroit area, give me a call.

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