Kissel Seat Cushion Dimensions

[LCK81403]

I would greatly appreciate receiving seat cushion dimensions of a Kissel Gold Bug, as well as leg room figures.  Since I can not afford a Kissel Bug, I have been considering building something like it.  I had contemplated using a basket case '24 Hupmobile, but it will not be a good donor.  Toward that end I have accumulated a lot of photos of various automobile models, and I have been studying various sources of information regarding car body design of the 1920s time period.  Most all of the cars of the 1920s time period featured seats that were fairly high on the frame, the seating approximating ordinary chairs in a home.  Some cars, however, were of the type variously called a torpedo, runabout, sportster, and sometimes roadster.  One prime recognition feature of those "sporty" cars was the rounded appearance of the body beginning at the radiator and blended past the passenger compartment to the end or tail.  A second prime recognition feature was the car's cowl and passenger compartment's configuration resembling the cockpit of an airplane.  A third and quite noticeable feature is the relatively low elevation of the seat cushions.  Those three prime recognition features are present on the 1915 Luverne Special Speed Roadster, the 1921 and 1922 Daniels Sportster, the various vintages of Kissel Gold Bugs, as well as other makes, such as the Stutz Bearcat.  The two photos showing the '21 and '22 Daniels apparently shows that Mr. Daniels went through a learning process.  The '21 photo shows his driving the car with his knees pulled up tightly under the steering wheel and he appears to be rather cramped.  The cowl of the car was ordinary for the times, and the length of the steering wheel post it rather long.  It seems obvious that he does not have enough leg room probably because the seat high was reduced somewhat.  The 1922 photo shows that the cowl was increased in length to provide greater leg room, and probably the steering wheel post was shortened.  Also, the seat height probably was shortened even more, when one compares the height of his shoulder to cowl height.  The difference between the '21 and '22 Daniels is obvious.  Photos of the various Kissel Bug models indicates that Kissel had the seating and leg room rationalized early on.  I imagine that the dimensions and figures I need probably would be similar to the compartment in my old 1964 Corvette, but I no long have that car.

 

I have transcribed a copy of a Paper read before the Body Section, of the Society of Automotive Engineers, at the annual meeting in New York City on January 11, 1922.  It is titled, Motor Bodies and Parts, Body Seating-Dimensions.  It has added to my basic technical understanding of this part of automobile manufacture.  The Paper was presented by George E. Goddard, an engineer with Dodge Brothers.  Mr. Goddard went into some discussion regarding dimensions, seat-cushion heights, leg room, foot rest, and so on.  This information is in a Google book online, Motor Vehicle Year Book - 1922, page B5-B7.  I can provide the transcribed copy if anyone needs it.

[1912Staver]

Something to bear in mind is all of these cars were designed for reasonably compact people. Depending on your height and inseam you may find any of them a fairly tight fit. I am 6'2" and find many 1920's cars a bit of a squeeze especially getting in and out. Cars like Kissel's are fairly large / long wheelbase, however even they are not too roomy especially with sports body's like Gold Bug's.

 

Greg in Canada

[LCK81403]

Yes, I hadn't really thought about that, but you are correct.  Modern human dimensions have changed.  I look at a Ford Model A interior and I feel the squeeze.  When I was 14 I couldn't fit into my great-uncle's antique swimming suit dating from the teens, and he had been an ordinary size soldier in World War One. That old swimming suit was a one piece affair, with straps on the top similar to a summer-type, sleeveless Tee-shirt.  Men were modest back in those days.  However, I used to be 5'9" but because of age I am now 5'7".  I used to think that my father was a big, powerful man, but there came a day, when I was 13, that I couldn't fit into his Army Air Corp insulated bomber coveralls.  But if or when I handcraft a Fraken Bug, I will need to have the seat height and leg room figured out before hand.  I may have to begin with a seat at an appropriate height and build around myself a cardboard mockup cockpit, cowl and dash to get an idea of what will be needed.

[old car fan]

Talk to Ron on this forum.He will chime in,he is kissle

[Spinneyhill]

Here is the 1922 Motor Vehicle Yearbook. It was digitised by Google.

https://babel.hathitrust.org/cgi/pt?id=nyp.33433107851325;view=1up;seq=11

[Restorer32]

I believe the Gold Bug in your pics is one we restored in the 1990's. Later owned by Wayne Carinni who painted the fenders black because he thought it "would sell better" with black fenders. AACA Senior winner in 1996 or so.

[mercer09]

the carini "touch".........................lol!

[ron hausmann]

LCK81403 -

     From the time that they were introduced in late 1918, Kissel Gold Bug seating dimensions themselves were “roomy” in my opinion, unlike other cramped speedsters. While these cars are hard to get into and out of, once you are in, the cockpit is VERY large and comfortable. I have driven 1920’snKissel Gold Bugs with no doors and my own which have doors and each is comfortable, once you manage to get in. I myself am 5’10” tall and weigh 200lbs, and I actually need to use a cushion behind me to comfortably reach the pedals. The 6-45 models (1919 - 1923) have a bit longer wheelbase at 124” than the 6-55 cars (1923-1927) with a 121” wheelbase, I don’t think the difference is in the cockpit but rather in the bumble-bee back. I repeat, getting in and out is hard, but once you ar there, these ar comfortable seating dimensions.

     I suggest that you get measurements from an existing Kissel Gold Bug and you’ll have plenty of room. If you strike out, I can just measure one of mine as you direct. Maybe these pics help.

thanks, Ron 

[LCK81403]

Thank you, Ron.  With your need for a pillow behind your back, that suggests the seats are fixed, not moveable.  I hadn't thought about that little glitch.  I does seem like the seats in my old '64 Corvette would be about the right seat height, as well as being front-back adjustable.  I have no access to a Kissel way out here in western, rural Colorado.  I can only look at photos and drool.  Thank you for your comments.  LeRoy

[John_Mereness]

It should not have buttons on the back seat rest at the "pleats" on the 1925's and assume that carries over to the earlier cars, but 1925's do have buttons on the lower cushions (aka why people put the buttons on the backrest as looks awkward without them).  

[ron hausmann]

Leroy,

I will take some measurements today at my shop. Yes the seats in a 1923 Gold Bug are a fixed bench style. I’ll also check my unrestored original Gold Bug to answer the above question about buttons. I know that my 1918 Kissel Sedanlette swayback originally DID have buttons.

ron