PONTIAC1953 Posted February 21, 2019 Share Posted February 21, 2019 4 hours ago, Summershandy said: I did however, fix the front crank seal which was leaking really bad when I got the car. Of course, I didn't have to remove the engine, crankshaft or transmission for that one...... the rear rope seal can be replace with the engine in the car, dropping the oil pan, removing the rear main cap and using a "sneeky pete" tool to remove and install the upper half of the rope seal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Summershandy Posted February 21, 2019 Share Posted February 21, 2019 9 hours ago, pontiac1953 said: the rear rope seal can be replace 9 hours ago, pontiac1953 said: using a "sneeky pete" Interesting....this "sneeky pete" prevents having to drop the crank as the manual states? I'll have to check into that...thanks for the heads up!👍 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GARY F Posted February 21, 2019 Share Posted February 21, 2019 (edited) Summershanty, How did you clean your motor in the car? did you remove the manifolds? did you gas to clean the grease and oil? I have a 37 Olds straight with all the front sheet metal off? I know with bare metal just use wire brushes.. Thanks for your reply. Your motor looks very nice. Edited February 21, 2019 by GARY F (see edit history) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PONTIAC1953 Posted February 21, 2019 Share Posted February 21, 2019 10 minutes ago, GARY F said: Summershanty, How did you clean your motor in the car? did you remove the manifolds? did you gas to clean the grease and oil? I have a 37 Olds straight with all the front sheet metal off? I know with bare metal just use wire brushes.. Thanks for your reply. Your motor looks very nice. i would use brake part cleaner, comes in a handy aerosol can and evaporates rather quickly leaving the cast iron very clean. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Summershandy Posted February 21, 2019 Share Posted February 21, 2019 36 minutes ago, pontiac1953 said: i would use brake part cleaner, comes in a handy aerosol can and evaporates rather quickly leaving the cast iron very clean. Charles nailed it. The brake cleaner works really well. Of course if you have any heavy build up (like I did) you need to get most off you can. Any degreaser will help but you don't want any residues left behind. Lots of elbow grease, stout rags and wire brushes. My manifold had to go in to be machined so it was off. I painted the intake same colour still attached to the exhaust manifold. The exhaust manifold I just took a wire wheel drill and gave at it. I liked the raw look. I didn't plan on painting the engine but after I had so much stripped off I realized, it was now or never. I'm a man of patience and when the car was up in the air getting checked over ready for the road, my mechanic asked, "did you remove the engine to paint it?"....he couldn't believe I didn't...... 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grizz Posted February 22, 2019 Share Posted February 22, 2019 Over cleaner works good on baked in grime Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PhilAndrews Posted February 23, 2019 Author Share Posted February 23, 2019 As it's an unknown quantity, I've loosened off a few random head bolts to attach lifting chains, I decided to pull the head to inspect inside the top end. Deck looks okay, needs a gentle clean and checking with a straight edge. Head looks good, there is a bit of variance in color across the pots but the manifold hadn't been tightened correctly and wasn't sealing correctly across its width and the valve lash was terrible. The gasket looks fairly recent. Not sure if this type can be reused? The pistons are all forty thou' over, and a couple of the bores have fairly heavy hone marks on them still, none are badly scored or ridged. I'm going to replace the head bolts because a number are corroded quite badly on the neck. I'm going to get myself a tap too and chase the holes in the block clean. Thermostat, a bit of paint and I'm going to call it on the engine. Next question- how do you split the gearbox from the engine correctly? Phil Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PONTIAC1953 Posted February 23, 2019 Share Posted February 23, 2019 1 hour ago, PhilAndrews said: As it's an unknown quantity, I've loosened off a few random head bolts to attach lifting chains, I decided to pull the head to inspect inside the top end. Deck looks okay, needs a gentle clean and checking with a straight edge. Head looks good, there is a bit of variance in color across the pots but the manifold hadn't been tightened correctly and wasn't sealing correctly across its width and the valve lash was terrible. The gasket looks fairly recent. Not sure if this type can be reused? The pistons are all forty thou' over, and a couple of the bores have fairly heavy hone marks on them still, none are badly scored or ridged. I'm going to replace the head bolts because a number are corroded quite badly on the neck. I'm going to get myself a tap too and chase the holes in the block clean. Thermostat, a bit of paint and I'm going to call it on the engine. Next question- how do you split the gearbox from the engine correctly? Phil hi phil, you don't want to reuse the old head gasket, on removing the transmission, there are 30 bolts holding the torus member to the flywheel, and 6 bell housing bolts, after you have the trans unbolted, slide back about 2 inches and then raise the rear of the engine so the torus flange will clear the bell housing. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PONTIAC1953 Posted February 23, 2019 Share Posted February 23, 2019 1 minute ago, pontiac1953 said: hi phil, you don't want to reuse the old head gasket, on removing the transmission, there are 30 bolts holding the torus member to the flywheel, and 6 bell housing bolts, after you have the trans unbolted, slide back about 2 inches and then raise the rear of the engine so the torus flange will clear the bell housing. also do NOT run a tap through the 30 threaded holes in the flywheel, you'll ruin the interference threads there if you do. interference threads are there to act like a lock washer and keeps the 30 bolts from coming loose. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PhilAndrews Posted February 23, 2019 Author Share Posted February 23, 2019 (edited) Figured not- it it's only copper fire rings with some sort of composite innards. I wasn't going to tap the flywheel, but than you for the warning nevertheless. A lot of people don't realize the different thread types used. I'm only going to gently run the correct size tap down the threads of the head bolt holes as they are full of crud and rust, some stuck, some were tight some came undone correctly. None felt like they were torqued to the same ballpark. Manual states clean threads with a film of lead white on them to torque up. I'm going to eyeball the valve seats too. Everything passed the first calibrated eyeball visual though. Going to make a shopping list; Gearbox seal rebuild kit Head gasket Head bolt set Thermostat + gasket Phil Edited February 23, 2019 by PhilAndrews (see edit history) 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PhilAndrews Posted February 23, 2019 Author Share Posted February 23, 2019 (edited) Another question! (Whodathunkit?) Should the manifold be held in with all studs, or is it a mixture of studs and bolts? I didn't measure, but the exhaust bolt on the furthest flywheel end is a bolt on mine- was that factory to allow the manifold clearance against the firewall to be removed? Phil Edited February 23, 2019 by PhilAndrews (see edit history) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PONTIAC1953 Posted February 23, 2019 Share Posted February 23, 2019 1 hour ago, PhilAndrews said: Another question! (Whodathunkit?) Should the manifold be held in with all studs, or is it a mixture of studs and bolts? I didn't measure, but the exhaust bolt on the furthest flywheel end is a bolt on mine- was that factory to allow the manifold clearance against the firewall to be removed? Phil all studs and nuts are used to mount the manifold assembly to the block, sounds like someone replace the rearmost stud with a bolt. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PhilAndrews Posted February 23, 2019 Author Share Posted February 23, 2019 That's what I thought when I discovered the bolt wasn't into a blind hole and water came streaming out... Phil Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Summershandy Posted February 23, 2019 Share Posted February 23, 2019 6 minutes ago, PhilAndrews said: That's what I thought when I discovered the bolt wasn't into a blind hole and water came streaming out... That's what happened to me and scared the bejeebers out of me! Don't lose those washers with those studs either. They are really thick and perfect diameter fit for the manifold. I tried replacing one but couldn't find anything locally. Speaking of, was the manifold leaking at all before removal? Even after replacing the gasket I still couldn't get a good enough seal. I had to get it machined with the intake attached. Apparently they're prone to warpage. Mine is a tight seal now. You might want to check it when it's off..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PhilAndrews Posted February 23, 2019 Author Share Posted February 23, 2019 When I got it no. I tightened it up center, working outward and it sealed up ok, but the gasket on that end is bad and the water leaked from the bolt hole to the exhaust port. Phil Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PhilAndrews Posted February 24, 2019 Author Share Posted February 24, 2019 Cylinder head is coming up ok. Bought some new #9 blades for my scraper. Pistons just wiped clean with a little carburetor cleaner. I'll clean the deck up like the head. Whoever did the work wasn't as thorough. Phil Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PhilAndrews Posted March 5, 2019 Author Share Posted March 5, 2019 Block deck is clean, everything's in pretty good shape. Cleaned the head up- what's the dimple in the squish space for? There's another in #1 on the other end. Phil Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PONTIAC1953 Posted March 5, 2019 Share Posted March 5, 2019 3 hours ago, PhilAndrews said: Block deck is clean, everything's in pretty good shape. Cleaned the head up- what's the dimple in the squish space for? There's another in #1 on the other end. Phil most likely related to pontiac's manufactoring process in either casting the head or in machining the head. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PhilAndrews Posted March 5, 2019 Author Share Posted March 5, 2019 They're both by the intake valve. Shouldn't have thought it's anything to do with flow in the combustion area for the end two pots, so who knows. I'll go with manufacturing oddity for now, then. Phil Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PhilAndrews Posted March 6, 2019 Author Share Posted March 6, 2019 Pontiac used dark Brunswick green for their engines, from what I can see. Admittedly not that color (better than Hunter green), but it's better than black. Phil Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pfeil Posted March 6, 2019 Share Posted March 6, 2019 2 hours ago, PhilAndrews said: Pontiac used dark Brunswick green for their engines, from what I can see. Admittedly not that color (better than Hunter green), but it's better than black. Phil This is the color you should be going for; Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PhilAndrews Posted March 6, 2019 Author Share Posted March 6, 2019 Mid Brunswick. Being as my car is '57 Ford Thunderbird Starmist... Deep turquoise works. Phill Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pfeil Posted March 6, 2019 Share Posted March 6, 2019 7 minutes ago, PhilAndrews said: Mid Brunswick. Being as my car is '57 Ford Thunderbird Starmist... Deep turquoise works. Phill What does a 57 Ford Thunderbird have anything to do with the correct color for a Straight eight or straight six Pontiac Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PhilAndrews Posted March 6, 2019 Author Share Posted March 6, 2019 (edited) "close enough". Previous owners painted the car the wrong shade of blue. It's Starmist, but the wrong manufacturer's Starmist. When I have the money, it's all going back to the correct color. For now, it's being protected by a decent coat of paint. Phil Edited March 6, 2019 by PhilAndrews (see edit history) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PONTIAC1953 Posted March 6, 2019 Share Posted March 6, 2019 have you looked at the condition of the water distribution tube inside the block behind the water pump ?, i have a nos brass (best one) tube for sale. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PhilAndrews Posted March 6, 2019 Author Share Posted March 6, 2019 Not yet. I just pulled the top end to see how the rebuild work was done- not bad but not great. What's the normal failure mode of the tubes? Phil Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grizz Posted March 6, 2019 Share Posted March 6, 2019 You better get it before I or summershandy😉I been watching this thread like a hawk as I’m likely to be embarking on the same task sooner or later Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Summershandy Posted March 6, 2019 Share Posted March 6, 2019 Haha you can have it Grizz! I checked my tube when I changed the water pump and my it's is in great shape....luckily 14 hours ago, PhilAndrews said: Admittedly not that color (better than Hunter green), but it's better than black. Looks good Phil! Another heads up....I had a really bad oil leak from the front crank seal. When I took the cover off the timing chain and gear were there. Simple replacement so I did them. The seal was cork and I suspected it was hard and dried up. Another easy fix and haven't had a drop of oil since. Sorry if I'm trying to give you more work but it's just you've gotten this far and it would suck if you could have fixed something when the engine was out.....not that you have to, I didn't. Carry on! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PhilAndrews Posted March 6, 2019 Author Share Posted March 6, 2019 Surprisingly the seals have been done. The only thing that leaks oil is the gearbox- the engine is totally dry. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Summershandy Posted March 6, 2019 Share Posted March 6, 2019 4 minutes ago, PhilAndrews said: the engine is totally dry. Nice....I have to get around to fixing a leak around the flywheel. I suspect the rear crank. Probably won't do it this year. Just keep parking over a sheet of plywood in my drive. It's pretty light for now. Didn't get out until late last summer so I'd like to do some cruisin' this summer! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PhilAndrews Posted March 6, 2019 Author Share Posted March 6, 2019 That's the purpose of this work. The gearbox seals are all shot; once that changes OK I need to look at the steering box, as the Pitman arm bearing has a lot of lash. Phil Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PhilAndrews Posted March 6, 2019 Author Share Posted March 6, 2019 Pulled the water pump, shone my bright flashlight down inside and apart from about half a teaspoon of crud spread over the back half, the brass guide insert is in good shape. Bought some new gasket paper also. Phil 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PhilAndrews Posted March 6, 2019 Author Share Posted March 6, 2019 Apart from economy, I cannot see a good reason why the water pump gasket shouldn't be the full size of the water pump backplate? Phil 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PONTIAC1953 Posted March 7, 2019 Share Posted March 7, 2019 1 hour ago, PhilAndrews said: Apart from economy, I cannot see a good reason why the water pump gasket shouldn't be the full size of the water pump backplate? Phil that's true, the gasket would have been the size to function and to keep the repair in warranty. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PhilAndrews Posted March 7, 2019 Author Share Posted March 7, 2019 I think I'm going to make it the full size of the backplate because water has gotten down between the gaps and was rusting. I've cleaned that up, hopefully it'll prevent that occurring. My engine is rather outside warranty. Phil Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Summershandy Posted March 7, 2019 Share Posted March 7, 2019 It's been a very long time since I changed the pump. Does it look like this? Is the engine block raised where the gasket goes? Maybe slap some paint on the block and pump where it doesn't seal? BTW, here's the color of the engine when I first got the car. Well, the timing chain cover at least haha. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PhilAndrews Posted March 7, 2019 Author Share Posted March 7, 2019 No, mine is the type where it's all machined flat and requires the circular gasket by itself on the top right bolt hole. That's pretty much the color I painted mine, too. Phil Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PONTIAC1953 Posted March 7, 2019 Share Posted March 7, 2019 15 hours ago, PhilAndrews said: I think I'm going to make it the full size of the backplate because water has gotten down between the gaps and was rusting. I've cleaned that up, hopefully it'll prevent that occurring. My engine is rather outside warranty. Phil be sure to coat the gasket with good sealant too 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PhilAndrews Posted March 8, 2019 Author Share Posted March 8, 2019 On 3/7/2019 at 12:12 PM, pontiac1953 said: be sure to coat the gasket with good sealant too I have a good quality RTV type sealant that's rated for antifreeze and oil (Renault Mastixo) that I'm going to use. I figured that composite gaskets always split or tear when you try and remove them anyway, so the addition of that would improve the seal, at the behest of knowing the gasket will be junk next time it's split. Phil Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PhilAndrews Posted March 10, 2019 Author Share Posted March 10, 2019 All back together, runs nicely. Need to get a new set of manifold gaskets but that's pretty much done now. Phil 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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