PhilAndrews

'51 Chieftain - Radio Rebuild

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13 hours ago, PhilAndrews said:

Manifold isn't sealing worth a hoot so need to slacken that off and redo.

 

Can't remember if I asked if you checked the manifold. Mine was leaking and I had to get it machined. It seals perfectly now. 

Great job Phil!

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The exhaust in the center is the worst- that's where it's leaking from, primarily.

 

I need to find a place that is willing and able to skim it down a touch. There aren't many good, old-school machine shops around here.

 

Phil

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8 hours ago, PhilAndrews said:

The exhaust in the center is the worst- that's where it's leaking from, primarily.

 

I need to find a place that is willing and able to skim it down a touch. There aren't many good, old-school machine shops around here.

 

Phil

i've heard of some using two sets of intake/exhaust gaskets to get a better seal. but i agree about getting the manifold set milled to make sure it's perfectly straight and true.

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I'm going to take some measurements and eyeball how it sits. It's very particular also about how it's tightened down also, must start from the center and work outward.

 

A few people have suggested the hard work method of spray gluing a sheet of abrasive to a sheet of glass and using that to face the surfaces.

 

Phil

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I had hoped and tried Permatex Ultra Copper to seal up my original leaks with little success. I took mine to a reputable shop but they still said they had a hard time fumbling around with it. They ended up breaking the choke tube off but that was an easy fix. I was still skeptical when I reinstalled it but they obviously made it better. Worse part was the price but what was I to do? 

I think I've seen somebody using a belt sander too on the manifold but that can't be very uniform. Would be easier but you could really screw things up!

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Phil.. did you have intake and exhaust manifolds apart..?   I would let the 4 bolts (2 long,2short) slightly loose, then torque manifold to block. Then tighten these 4 bolts. May save you some trouble machining. Just your time.  John

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John, I did not. It usually sits better than it did this time. How does it locate the two sections? Simply by the bolts clamping the two together?

 

If so that may help as it appears to be the exhaust manifold is slightly out of line to the intake. It may have a warp too looking at the pattern of soot it left behind when I took it off to put the engine back in the car.

 

I'll take a look if it wants to split when I get back home (currently in Texas for a wedding, been seeing all the shiny cars and bikes heading to Mississippi the opposite way all day- Cruisin' The Coast starts tomorrow).

 

Phil

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.As you know, it onnly takes a few .0001 inch to leak. The 4 bolts could possibly have left it shift a little through handling, on /off the bench. It is 60 + years old and things get brittle. I had mine apart when i repaired the heat riser. The new gasket between the intake/exhaust manifolds will compress slightly.thats why i left them loose.. if you have new gaskets all around, i would sequence torque all 14 bolts/studs together. (Intake/exhaust studs to block and manifold to manifold bolts) hope th8s helps.  Nice job on the trans... John

 

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*heave on bolt*

*bolt finally begins to move*

*tighten up again to clear threads*

*head shears off*

 

 

Doubt those have been undone since they were put in.

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20191006_212548.thumb.jpg.ff60a01173958efd3bbf5fa8e2dc7ee3.jpg

That's the problem, right there. John, you were correct.

 

20191006_213155.thumb.jpg.87be4e8889681b832d4c3ff01966762c.jpg

All 4 bolts sheared, despite application of heat. I can get a grip on 3 but one will probably need to be drilled out.

 

20191006_213300.thumb.jpg.04bfbdf7adc14aa5864cfcf876621fcf.jpg

For now though, they're going to soak a while in PB Blaster. 

 

Pain that the bolts sheared (didn't really expect anything less to be honest) but glad I split the manifolds because the join between the two has been leaking for a while, there's soot all over the underside of the intake manifold.

 

I'll hopefully get the bolts out, new ones in and everything sitting down nice and flat and sealed and quiet.

 

Phil

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2 hours ago, PhilAndrews said:

*head shears off*

 

Exact reason I didn't attempt it when I had my leakage. I had already broken a flange bolt removing the exhaust then went ahead breaking off the "ear" of the manifold flange itself trying to remove the rest of it with shitty taps. Ended up costing me in repairs on top of the machining. Sometimes when it ain't broke.....

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I may speak to my neighbor. He has a decent welding machine, should be able to weld a couple nuts on the remnants, give them a couple wallops when red hot and see if they'll come loose that way first.

 

There's more of the 4th stud left than I initially thought, there's gasket material I can remove (carefully, it's probably asbestos) to allow better access.

 

It looks like there's maybe an inch of threads actually into the metal so there's still a chance of getting these out. Much heat required!

 

Phil

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Phil,
I feel your pain. I was so surprised when none of my studs broke off taking the manifolds off the block. Very solid. But I had to shell out like $85 just to get the manifold-to-manifold bolts removed. If all else fails, I have an extra intake you can just have. Great job on everything by the way, I’ve been following along. 

Edited by cevensky (see edit history)
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That sucks !!  But you found a second leak also. With what i saw you do with the trans, this will be a piece of cake for you phil..                   john

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24 minutes ago, john hess said:

That sucks !!  But you found a second leak also. With what i saw you do with the trans, this will be a piece of cake for you phil..                   john

 

Well, hopefully. Where there's a will there's a way, I guess!

 

Manifold bolts/studs are always a crapshoot, normally with the game rigged against you...

 

Phil

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VideoCapture_20191007-224819.thumb.jpg.2892fcd1f837668f4f3ac2e8666638fb.jpg

There was fire.

 

20191007_195814.thumb.jpg.dee0499b6267d265c822226eb71c501e.jpg

There were drill bits.

 

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Finally there were threaded holes.

 

The intake manifold was moderately easy. I've already had to drill the exhaust oversize to 3/8 and am beginning to tap a thread (got about 3/4" deep done tonight but it's hard metal and slow going and I've still got another one to go yet.

 

Phil

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On 10/6/2019 at 10:37 PM, cevensky said:

Phil,
I feel your pain. I was so surprised when none of my studs broke off taking the manifolds off the block. Very solid. But I had to shell out like $85 just to get the manifold-to-manifold bolts removed. If all else fails, I have an extra intake you can just have. Great job on everything by the way, I’ve been following along. 

 

Do you have a split set, just the exhaust? If this all goes pear-shaped I may be looking for one...

 

--Phil

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Well... I can’t recall if they’re split yet... I can see/try sometime this week. I think they’re off a 51 but the manifolds should interchange at least from the 40s to 54. 

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If not already split, and if they don't show signs of having leaked, don't... you're likely to end up with the same problem I have with this one. Whereabouts are you located?

Edited by PhilAndrews (see edit history)

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I’m in northwest Louisiana. They’re a spare set off a spare engine, a little rusty and greasy so hard to tell too much about leaks. 

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Opposite corner of the state to me! I'm in the south-east, about 60 miles south of New Orleans.

 

I'll see how this goes. If it clamps together adequately we should be ok; if not I may be giving you a holler.

 

 

Thanks

 

 

--Phil

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Ah perfect! I get the chance to leave Shreveport for the south every now and then. Good to know there's an experienced hydramatic rebuilder in-state 😂 (only partially a joke!), I've seen some of your other work rebuilding the radio and all that and I'm real impressed. I'll be needing help in the future

There's no good reason your manifolds shouldn't seat together with a new gasket between them. I'll be running the same experiment when my 8 is out of the shop in a month or two. 

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Expert? No! I can give advice (mostly- get the factory manual, it's pretty good) 

 

I really need to get back to the radio, it's in bits still. 

 

Phil

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20191010_181249.thumb.jpg.ef41f786c55f5129e57b6597cb5e7916.jpg

Manifold now bolts together- with no gaskets, bolting the manifolds to the engine makes them seal correctly to the engine but the two halves don't come together flat or correctly. 

Hopefully should be able to get it as close as possible, I'm going to then try sand the faces flat if it won't sit.

 

Phil

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