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'51 Chieftain - On The Road


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4 hours ago, Summershandy said:

I did however, fix the front crank seal which was leaking really bad when I got the car. Of course, I didn't have to remove the engine, crankshaft or transmission for that one......

the rear rope seal can be replace with the engine in the car, dropping the oil pan, removing the rear main cap and using a "sneeky pete" tool to remove and install the upper half of the rope seal.

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9 hours ago, pontiac1953 said:

the rear rope seal can be replace

 

9 hours ago, pontiac1953 said:

using a "sneeky pete"

 

Interesting....this "sneeky pete" prevents having to drop the crank as the manual states? I'll have to check into that...thanks for the heads up!👍

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Summershanty, How did you clean your motor in the car?  did you remove the manifolds? did you gas to clean the grease and oil?  I have a 37 Olds straight with all the front sheet metal off? I know with bare metal just use wire brushes..  Thanks for your reply.  Your motor looks very nice.

DSCN0581.JPG

Edited by GARY F (see edit history)
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10 minutes ago, GARY F said:

Summershanty, How did you clean your motor in the car?  did you remove the manifolds? did you gas to clean the grease and oil?  I have a 37 Olds straight with all the front sheet metal off? I know with bare metal just use wire brushes..  Thanks for your reply.  Your motor looks very nice.

DSCN0581.JPG

i would use brake part cleaner, comes in a handy aerosol can and evaporates rather quickly leaving the cast iron very clean.

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36 minutes ago, pontiac1953 said:

i would use brake part cleaner, comes in a handy aerosol can and evaporates rather quickly leaving the cast iron very clean.

 

Charles nailed it. The brake cleaner works really well. Of course if you have any heavy build up (like I did) you need to get most off you can. Any degreaser will help but you don't want any residues left behind. Lots of elbow grease, stout rags and wire brushes. My manifold had to go in to be machined so it was off. I painted the intake same colour still attached to the exhaust manifold. The exhaust manifold I just took a wire wheel drill and gave at it. I liked the raw look. I didn't plan on painting the engine but after I had so much stripped off I realized, it was now or never. I'm a man of patience and when the car was up in the air getting checked over ready for the road, my mechanic asked, "did you remove the engine to paint it?"....he couldn't believe I didn't......

 

 

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As it's an unknown quantity, I've loosened off a few random head bolts to attach lifting chains, I decided to pull the head to inspect inside the top end.

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Deck looks okay, needs a gentle clean and checking with a straight edge.

 

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Head looks good, there is a bit of variance in color across the pots but the manifold hadn't been tightened correctly and wasn't sealing correctly across its width and the valve lash was terrible.

 

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The gasket looks fairly recent. Not sure if this type can be reused?

 

The pistons are all forty thou' over, and a couple of the bores have fairly heavy hone marks on them still, none are badly scored or ridged.

 

I'm going to replace the head bolts because a number are corroded quite badly on the neck. I'm going to get myself a tap too and chase the holes in the block clean.

Thermostat, a bit of paint and I'm going to call it on the engine.

 

Next question- how do you split the gearbox from the engine correctly?

 

Phil

 

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1 hour ago, PhilAndrews said:

As it's an unknown quantity, I've loosened off a few random head bolts to attach lifting chains, I decided to pull the head to inspect inside the top end.

20190222_182150.thumb.jpg.44f7523aaea6cdf10672b377273d8ca4.jpg

Deck looks okay, needs a gentle clean and checking with a straight edge.

 

20190222_182104.thumb.jpg.0e35ae8017e3feb4b089af03c8461384.jpg

Head looks good, there is a bit of variance in color across the pots but the manifold hadn't been tightened correctly and wasn't sealing correctly across its width and the valve lash was terrible.

 

20190222_182108.thumb.jpg.fee2b25cfdfa30af5a91e34ffaf126c3.jpg

The gasket looks fairly recent. Not sure if this type can be reused?

 

The pistons are all forty thou' over, and a couple of the bores have fairly heavy hone marks on them still, none are badly scored or ridged.

 

I'm going to replace the head bolts because a number are corroded quite badly on the neck. I'm going to get myself a tap too and chase the holes in the block clean.

Thermostat, a bit of paint and I'm going to call it on the engine.

 

Next question- how do you split the gearbox from the engine correctly?

 

Phil

 

hi phil, you don't want to reuse the old head gasket, on removing the transmission, there are 30 bolts holding the torus member to the flywheel, and 6 bell housing bolts, after you have the trans unbolted, slide back about 2 inches and then raise the rear of the engine so the torus flange will clear the bell housing.

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1 minute ago, pontiac1953 said:

hi phil, you don't want to reuse the old head gasket, on removing the transmission, there are 30 bolts holding the torus member to the flywheel, and 6 bell housing bolts, after you have the trans unbolted, slide back about 2 inches and then raise the rear of the engine so the torus flange will clear the bell housing.

also do NOT run a tap through the 30 threaded holes in the flywheel, you'll ruin the interference threads there if you do. interference threads are there to act like a lock washer and keeps the 30 bolts from coming loose.

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Figured not- it it's only copper fire rings with some sort of composite innards.

 

I wasn't going to tap the flywheel, but than you for the warning nevertheless. A lot of people don't realize the different thread types used.

I'm only going to gently run the correct size tap down the threads of the head bolt holes as they are full of crud and rust, some stuck, some were tight some came undone correctly. None felt like they were torqued to the same ballpark. Manual states clean threads with a film of lead white on them to torque up.

 

I'm going to eyeball the valve seats too. Everything passed the first calibrated eyeball visual though.

 

Going to make a shopping list;

 

Gearbox seal rebuild kit

Head gasket

Head bolt set

Thermostat + gasket

 

 

 

Phil

Edited by PhilAndrews (see edit history)
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Another question! (Whodathunkit?)

 

Should the manifold be held in with all studs, or is it a mixture of studs and bolts?

 

I didn't measure, but the exhaust bolt on the furthest flywheel end is a bolt on mine- was that factory to allow the manifold clearance against the firewall to be removed?

 

Phil

Edited by PhilAndrews (see edit history)
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1 hour ago, PhilAndrews said:

Another question! (Whodathunkit?)

 

Should the manifold be held in with all studs, or is it a mixture of studs and bolts?

 

I didn't measure, but the exhaust bolt on the furthest flywheel end is a bolt on mine- was that factory to allow the manifold clearance against the firewall to be removed?

 

Phil

all studs and nuts are used to mount the manifold assembly to the block, sounds like someone replace the rearmost stud with a bolt. 

 

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6 minutes ago, PhilAndrews said:

That's what I thought when I discovered the bolt wasn't into a blind hole and water came streaming out...

 

That's what happened to me and scared the bejeebers out of me! Don't lose those washers with those studs either. They are really thick and perfect diameter fit for the manifold. I tried replacing one but couldn't find anything locally. Speaking of, was the manifold leaking at all before removal? Even after replacing the gasket I still couldn't get a good enough seal. I had to get it machined with the intake attached. Apparently they're prone to warpage. Mine is a tight seal now. You might want to check it when it's off.....

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  • 2 weeks later...
3 hours ago, PhilAndrews said:

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Block deck is clean, everything's in pretty good shape.

 

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Cleaned the head up- what's the dimple in the squish space for? There's another in #1 on the other end.

 

Phil

most likely related to pontiac's manufactoring process in either casting the head or in machining the head.

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2 hours ago, PhilAndrews said:

Pontiac used dark Brunswick green for their engines, from what I can see.

 

20190305_153308.thumb.jpg.b4023d8b2573b8096177c45b4bed7a7f.jpg

 

Admittedly not that color (better than Hunter green), but it's better than black.

 

Phil

This is the color you should be going for;

Image result for pontiac straight eight images

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7 minutes ago, PhilAndrews said:

Mid Brunswick.

 

Being as my car is '57 Ford Thunderbird Starmist... Deep turquoise works.

 

Phill

What does a 57 Ford Thunderbird have anything to do with the correct color for a Straight eight or straight six Pontiac

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"close enough". Previous owners painted the car the wrong shade of blue.

It's Starmist, but the wrong manufacturer's Starmist. 

 

When I have the money, it's all going back to the correct color.

 

For now, it's being protected by a decent coat of paint.

 

Phil

Edited by PhilAndrews (see edit history)
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Haha you can have it Grizz! I checked my tube when I changed the water pump and my it's is in great shape....luckily

 

14 hours ago, PhilAndrews said:

Admittedly not that color (better than Hunter green), but it's better than black.

 

Looks good Phil! Another heads up....I had a really bad oil leak from the front crank seal. When I took the cover off the timing chain and gear were there. Simple replacement so I did them. The seal was cork and I suspected it was hard and dried up. Another easy fix and haven't had a drop of oil since. Sorry if I'm trying to give you more work but it's just you've gotten this far and it would suck if you could have fixed something when the engine was out.....not that you have to, I didn't. Carry on!

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4 minutes ago, PhilAndrews said:

the engine is totally dry.

 

Nice....I have to get around to fixing a leak around the flywheel. I suspect the rear crank. Probably won't do it this year. Just keep parking over a sheet of plywood in my drive. It's pretty light for now. Didn't get out until late last summer so I'd like to do some cruisin' this summer!

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Pulled the water pump, shone my bright flashlight down inside and apart from about half a teaspoon of crud spread over the back half, the brass guide insert is in good shape.

 

Bought some new gasket paper also.

 

Phil

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1 hour ago, PhilAndrews said:

Apart from economy, I cannot see a good reason why the water pump gasket shouldn't be the full size of the water pump backplate?

 

Phil

that's true, the gasket would have been the size to function and to keep the repair in warranty.

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I think I'm going to make it the full size of the backplate because water has gotten down between the gaps and was rusting. I've cleaned that up, hopefully it'll prevent that occurring.

 

My engine is rather outside warranty.

 

 

Phil

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It's been a very long time since I changed the pump. Does it look like this? Is the engine block raised where the gasket goes? Maybe slap some paint on the block and pump where it doesn't seal? BTW, here's the color of the engine when I first got the car. Well, the timing chain cover at least haha.

 

 

IMG_6462.JPG

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15 hours ago, PhilAndrews said:

I think I'm going to make it the full size of the backplate because water has gotten down between the gaps and was rusting. I've cleaned that up, hopefully it'll prevent that occurring.

 

My engine is rather outside warranty.

 

 

Phil

be sure to coat the gasket with good sealant too

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On 3/7/2019 at 12:12 PM, pontiac1953 said:

be sure to coat the gasket with good sealant too

I have a good quality RTV type sealant that's rated for antifreeze and oil (Renault Mastixo) that I'm going to use.

 

I figured that composite gaskets always split or tear when you try and remove them anyway, so the addition of that would improve the seal, at the behest of knowing the gasket will be junk next time it's split.

 

Phil

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  • PhilAndrews changed the title to '51 Chieftain - Valve job
  • PhilAndrews changed the title to '51 Chieftain - On The Road

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